How does feminism hurt men?

a-man-from-earth · 2020-10-03T22:44:19+00:00

Since https://redd.it/j4aj3a was removed by Reddit because they removed OkLetterhead9's account for reasons unknown to us, let's continue the discussion here again.

(I initially locked this one in favor of the other because it was downvoted below the threshold, which hurts visibility.)

madrigalm50 · 2020-10-03T04:52:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

funnystor · 2020-10-03T05:26:45+00:00

I think of feminism like a religion. Can it be helpful to many people? Of course! Does it have good ideas? Sure! Does that mean it's right about everything? No way. Can it cause some harm despite good intentions? Entirely possible.

If people say "you must be feminist to be a decent person", that doesn't sound any different to me than "you must be Christian to be a decent person".

"Feminism helps men too" is like "Christianity helps non Christians too", maybe true but it's not the focus.

mewacketergi2 · 2020-10-03T05:23:09+00:00

Feminists love to exploit their now-culturally dominant position to deprioritize men's issues. Despite the "we also care about men" platitudes, practically speaking, anti-anti-feminism is 100x more important than recognition for humanity of men. Empathy for male pain, support of men's issues, liberation of men, – no matter however you phrase this, it takes a second place at best to anti-anti-feminism.

Was there a bill to reform the US alimony laws shot down despite bipartisan support? A fire alarm pulled on a conference discussing male suicide from a nonfeminist perspective? There are dozens of stories like this. I bet you dollars to donuts, in any given story like this one, there's a feminist group behind these despicable actions.

Any sort nasty, brutish, bullying, dehumanizing, self-righteous tactics employed by activists against a male detractor are of no consequence. There's always going to be a pretense to excuse them, their misandry is always ironic. To a feminist, it doesn't matter whether men's liberation from traditional gender expectations happens on feminist terms, or never happens at all. Anything goes, as long as their movement's political demands are met. It almost seems like a religion at this point.

a-man-from-earth · 2020-10-03T04:42:01+00:00

This is a start: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/wiki/missionstatement#wiki_why_do_we_see_a_need_to_criticize_feminism.3F

madrigalm50 · 2020-10-03T04:16:08+00:00

Ideals for each sex really comes from the opposite sex.

If women want to be young, slim and have curves, that's because it's ultimately what men find attractive. If men want to be tall and muscular it's because it's what women want. Men can tell each other all day long that being short and weak and emotionally frail is fine, it won't make any difference if at the end of the day women reject it.

The only reason women's movement for fat acceptance has more traction is because men will still happily get with fat chicks, in fact a lot of men have a fetish for it anyway.

OkLetterhead9 · 2020-10-03T05:43:00+00:00

I will tell you how does feminism hurt men.

I do think men face problems that specific to men, but I think it's men's job to fix it. Like spreading different healthy body types for men or showing men how to be vulnerable. It's a problem that a men's movement built by men should solve.

it's man's job to fix it ? why ? why women's problems are the responsibility of all the society but the men's problems are the responsibility of men only.

Isn't that traditional gender roles ? by saying "it's man's job to fix it" you are saying to men just "man up" !

Men's problems need systemic solutions from policy makers.

Showing men how to be vulnerable ? are you saying men are responsible for their own problems because they don't know how to be vulnerable ? that's victim blaming and also supremacy. men know how to be vulnerable. we are not stupid. the problem is that when we are vulnerable we don't get any help. people tell us "man up" (like you just did)

Men show vulnerablity all the time, this is what the men's rights movement is about. but we get demonized for it by feminists, we get called "whiners" "stop playing the victim" "women have it worse" etc etc ..

For example in the US the anti domestic violence bill titled "Violence Against Women Act" and only women get services. this is institutional sexism. this is not the men's job to fix it. this is a civil rights issue. this is OUR job to fix it. yourself included.

Here are some quotes from men who called abuse hotlines, taken fromNational Parent’s organization:

They laughed at me and told me I must have done something to deserve it if it happened at all.

Another said: They asked how much I weighed and how much she weighed and then hung up on me...I was told by this agency that I was full of BS.

Twelve percent of the hotlines accused the man of being the batterer or responsible for the abuse. One abused man said:

They told me women don't commit domestic violence -- it must have been my fault.

Another said: They accused me of trying to hide my "abuse" of her by claiming to be a victim, and they said that I was nothing more than a wimp.

Of the men who sought help by contacting local domestic violence programs, only 10% found them to be "very helpful," whereas 65% found them to be "not at all helpful." One abused man said:

They just laughed and hung up the phone.

Another said: They didn't really listen to what I said. They assumed that all abusers are men and said that I must accept that I was the abuser. They ridiculed me for not leaving my wife, ignoring the issues about what I would need to do to protect my six children and care for them.

Stop telling men that's their job to fix the problems, stop victim blaming, admit that institutional sexism against exist. accept that if you are pro equality it's your job to fix the problems.

" It's the same way in our healthcare system, men die on average 5 years younger than women, they die more frequently of most of the top killer diseases. we have several national offices for women's health and we have nothing for men. if that's not bigotry. if that's not real deadly sexism, i don't know what is ! " Paul Elam

This is how feminism hurt men, by victim blaming men and denying the existence is institutional sexism against men.

I do think feminism has problems but I think it's more racism, classism and ableism being pushed as part of feminism, like how men of color or working class men existing is lumped with actual harassments when women talk about how men make them feel uncomfortable.

Saying men make them feel uncomfortable is not racism or classism. it is misandry. dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men.

I see feminists say that men (ALL MEN not jus men of color or working class ) make them feel uncomfortable.

This is why men's issues and men's rights are ignored, because you make them look as racial or class issue when in reality it's gender issue (men's issue) for example police brutality: 96% of the victims are men, 86% of the homeless are men (read this instagram post for more)

This is how feminism hurt men, by making men's issues invisible. by reclassifying male problems into other categories: social, racial, class, immigration, etc

As explain Daniel Jimenez in "Dehumanizing the male" (read the book review here) :

Female problems are gendered, but male problems are not. Previously we talked about workplace fatalities. Well, if you read this article in the newspaper ElDiario.es you will realize that data segregated by sex is not provided. The article refers to “dead people” or “workers”. If you read it in Europa Press the same thing happens. But if you read it on RTVE and you have the patience to reach exactly the end of the last paragraph, you will find the sex segregation. Imagine that the numbers of male and female workers killed was the opposite (that is, 602 dead women and 50 men), do you think the media treatment would have been the same? Do you think that society’s and social agents’ response would have been the same? (that is, none) As Daniel repeats throughout the book, there is no gender spinning for men’s problems. If a problem or violence affects primarily women, it is a gendered problem, but the opposite does not happen.

You ask:

How do feminists interfere with men building a men's movement that's about helping men?

in different ways for example by insisting that the conversation on gender equality focus exclusively on women's rights and never men's rights. by insisting that the conversation on sexism focus exclusively on misogyny and never misandry. for example:

A proposal at Simon Fraser University (near Vancouver) to open up a men’s centre on campus (to address issues like suicide, addiction, and negative stereotypes) was opposed by the existing women’s centre. Their alternative suggestion was a “male allies project” to “bring self-identified men together to talk about masculinity and its harmful effects”.

Author Warren Farrell went to give a talk on the boys’ crisis (boys dropping out of school and committing suicide at higher rates) at the University of Toronto, but he was opposed by protesters who “barricaded the doors, harassed attendees, pulled fire alarms, chanted curses at speakers and more”. Opposition included leaders in the student union.

Three students at Ryerson University (also in Toronto) tried to start a men’s issues club. They were blocked by the student union, which associated the idea with supposed “anti-women’s rights groups” and dismissed the idea of sexism against men as an “oppressive concept”. The union passed a motion saying it rejects “Groups, meetings events or initiatives [that] negate the need to centre women’s voices in the struggle for gender equity”.

Professor Janice Fiamengo tried to give a talk in Ottawa on men’s issues, only to be interrupted by students shouting, blasting horns, and pulling the fire alarm.

Christian Hoff Sommers (known for her conservative/individualist/libertarian perspective on gender issues) gave a talk at Oberlin College in Ohio. Activists hung up posters identifying the names of those who invited her as “supporters of rape culture”.

Read the full response here.

a-man-from-earth · 2020-10-03T04:54:07+00:00

/u/thetinmenblog, /u/oncefa2, /u/mhandanna, /u/okletterhead9, and others, do you have posts with more arguments and sources that could be educational here? Please link them.

poonisphart · 2020-10-08T16:53:38+00:00

feminists actively interfere with attempts to help men with things such as mental health. There was once a guy that was abused by his wife and wanted to start a shelter for men so it wouldn't happen to other men again. Feminists founded out and bullied him into suicide. There was a woman named Erin Pizzey who founded the first shelter for woman, and after she did research, she found out the men were also very likely to be abused by their partners. When she called this out, she got death threats, bomb threats, and was harassed by feminists until she had to move to a different state. Mainstream feminism actively fights against men's rights. I do believe that mainstream feminism isn't real feminism, and there are a few people including myself that I would consider real feminists who advocate for women's rights and try to fix women's problems without actively putting down men.

liztu_june · 2020-10-14T23:01:29+00:00

It hurt men by attacking male sexuality but not every feminist will do this.

They ignore men's issue and when they don't it secondary to women issues.

They ignore there own privilege or write it off as a disadvantage. You would really hate it if a man acted like being paid more then you was inconvenient do not do the same thing when it comes to dating and sex please.

Most feminist will not purge misandrist form there ranks or even agree on what feminism means.

xenodroid80 · 2020-10-08T03:05:24+00:00

Feminism has done nothing but good. Right? (They’re watching this group and taking screenshots, just say nice things)

Title	How does feminism hurt men?
Author	madrigalm50
Upvotes	0
Comments	28
Date	October 3, 2020 3:39 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/j48vzc/how_does_feminism_hurt_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-does-feminism-hurt-men.1194701 https://theredarchive.com/post/1194701

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