I think we should write a big document

Hi, first time poster, long time lurker. Excuse grammar mistakes or weird phrasing.

Sometimes it feels like this sub has great critiques of feminism and awesome points and info about male problems but presented in little pieces that make it difficult to see the big picture.

I think that a document containing info, statistics, critiques and counterpoints to feminism but from a left-wing, egalitarian perspective would be very powerful. A document organised into segments that leave all issues clear and accesible.

I don´t know if you agree but i think that it would be wise to open it with a statement that leaves it clear that it´s from a left wing perspective, that anti feminism doesn't equal anti women and maybe even an acknowledgement of what feminism got right, even if it was a long time ago, so we can find some common gorund with the average leftwinger.

I propose this because there is so much to talk about: circumsicion, male suicide, fatherhood, legal system, men being disponsable, false accusations, terms like toxic masculinity and patriarchy, women are wonderful effect, casual misandrylike #killallmen, male victimes of sexual abuse, men always being percieved as perpetrators, men always wanting sex... and so much more.

Imagine all this well cited and explained, well organised in a document that you can share.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mmfood7[S] 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Maybe we can do weekly writings and gatherings of information. Like mods announcing that this week we are focusing on, for example, male suicide. So users that have some free time can collect information (a lot of wich we already have) and then some volunteers can sort it from hard facts to studies to well argumented opinions and make a coherent text. Then next week another issue. Maybe not weekly but monthly or every two weeks.

I know this may be too much though. The thing is that, as I have seen discussed here, it is not time for protesting in the streets for these issues. It would be too much and badly received. But I feel like we need to advance somehow.

I appreciate your work in this subreddit, I know you are doing a lot, and I understand that this could be too much work and require too much organization.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]problem_redditorright-wing guest 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JackieNaper1907 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RhinoNomad 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]RhinoNomad 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]genkernels 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Generally RBOMI will look directly at the source studies or individual claims written in books that could be from a study. It also tries to be rather strict about being demonstrable so rather than say something nebulous like "men recieve less empathy" which is hard to show in all situations in its totality, it will say things like studied bias in relationship contexts and permissive attitudes to violence against men. The exception is "male disposability", which has a more extensive section. So chances are that wiki isn't going to reference The Empathy Gap directly anytime in the near future.

/r/rbomi is in sore need of some updates, but acedemic writing on these issues is quite a bit more difficult than I thought when I tried a couple years ago (what's there now is still almost entirely dakru's work with me as a very minor fourth or fifth contributor I think, /u/a-man-from-earth), so I've unfortunately let it languish -- some of the outgoing links were dying even a couple years ago. If you want to submit an update for a section pm it to me or the subreddit (which would pm it to me and Oncefa2). Much of what is there is still rather relevant, but it's a bit behind the times, particularly when it comes to false accusations as this was made before #MeToo and possibly before father's rights groups really pressing DV allegations as an issue (or perhaps that was downplayed in the initial RBOMI at the time, I don't know).

[–]duhhhh 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]genkernels 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]duhhhh 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]genkernels 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]genkernels 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that's a fairly pointless exercise since it isn't exactly hard to export and/or fork if someone wants to and I think most projects to do so would at least be substantially merged back in. I think it'd just be bloat and make-work (in fact, /r/mensrights used to have a copy of rbomi on its own wiki and now does not). MRA wiki-projects of the past have mostly been a failure due to not having enough eyes to sustain the creation->revision->merging/deletion/upgrade cycle that most wikis go through given the complexity (and trauma and painstaking repetitiveness) of the subject material. For this reason I think the way rbomi has done things in the past is the way to go -- even if it causes it to languish a bit. If someone feels strongly enough otherwise though, by all means fork away!

If there's interest in people updating or creating sections and leaving them for others to see or discuss here would probably be a fine place to post them, but there's also rbomidev (though I'm not sure if that requires an invite, if so, I'd be more than willing to invite anyone interested enough to ask and a known poster here).

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mmfood7[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hostergaard 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mmfood7[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BadSpanglish2 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Mmfood7[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tiggywiggler 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 24 points25 points26 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I dont see this as the correct place for anti feminist critiques.

It is.

The sub for me is about be pro-Male, but is not about being anti-woman or anti-feminist.

We are male advocates motivated by egalitarianism. Consequently we support equal rights for men and women. We are as pro-woman as we are pro-man.

Another consequence of this is that we are highly critical of feminism. The forms of feminism that we have to deal with (in politics, education, social media, activism) overwhelmingly are promoting ideas and policies that harm men.

Yes, we are male advocates first and foremost. But that inevitably leads to criticism of those who oppose us in practice.

I know some people consider feminism as being entirely anti-male and therefore anti pro male movement should be inherently anti-feminist but I do not agree

Maybe not entirely, but there is plenty of evidence to show that it is overwhelmingly misandrist. There are fringe forms of feminism that are not, and there are feminists who support male issues, but they are few and often ostracized. Look into the stories of Erin Pizzey, Earl Silverman, and Cassie Jaye.

and I think it would be incorrect to produce such a document and consider it representative of the sub.

I think you would find that the mod team here disagrees with your assessment.

[–]TheLWMA 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mmfood7[S] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think i expressed it wrong. I'm not talking about an anti feminist manifesto. When i say "info, statistics, critiques and counterpoints to feminism" i'm talking about info and statistics of how men are discriminetad upon, and an explanation of why feminism sometimes makes things worse and why peple should be egalitarian but maybe not feminist in modern times.

But yeah, maybe we should concentrate on the wiki like a-man-from-earth pointed. I feel bad because i don´t have much to contribute but i just see the need of all this information located and organised in the same place because of the complicated nature of these issues and how they interconnect.

Let me put it like this: when someone here on reddit says "hey male suicide is a problem" sometimes people respond saying that yes it is a problem but it's because of patryarchy and also men don't suffer in other areas. This is an example of how we are trying to fight one issue at a time and how maybe it would be better to be able to present the whole picture to people willing to listen.

[–]Tiggywiggler 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	I think we should write a big document
Author	Mmfood7
Upvotes	45
Comments	26
Date	December 27, 2021 11:20 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/rq0bns/i_think_we_should_write_a_big_document/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/i-think-we-should-write-a-big-document.1212164 https://theredarchive.com/post/1212164

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