No I don't mean talk down on women here. I have seen a lot male feminists fail in debates with Conservatives or red pillers, because they refuse to acknowledge reality. And pretend like a lot of women don't have problematic/traditional expectations for men.

For example, let's say a male feminist is having a debate with a conservative or red piller about what a "real man" is. And the conservative or red piller say something BS, like a "real man" is a alpha male who protects women. Then the conservative or red piller says this is what most women want. And the male feminist disagree with that, and say no, women don't want that. And then the conservative or red piller shows the male feminist a plethora of women who say the opposite.

The problem here is that the male feminist is ignoring reality here, of at least pretending to be blind or obtuse (being disingenuous). They think most women are these super gender abolishists who would never have traditional expectations for men. When in reality both of the female tradcons and female feminists expect traditional gender roles from men. So In a debate or conversation about masculinity/manhood male feminists look extremely silly when they ignore this reality.

Because in this specific case or context. The conservatives and red pillers aren't obtuse or blind or at least not pretending to be obtuse or blind. They are aware that a lot of women would agree that a man protecting women is a great example of a "real masculine man" or "positive masculinity". So again male feminists look super silly when they say women don't want that. And they end up in a "libs get owned" compilation on YouTube. We all know this response from the male feminists is due to them not wanting to portrayed women in a certain light that would contradict their beliefs or arguments.

I know the white knight term has been tainted by incels. But I still think the white knight term is still a important term to use in this context though. Even the popular leftist streamer Destiny thinks a lot of men can't be a male feminist, without coming off as "soy". I know Destiny is a controversial figure, and I don't 100 percent agree with that. But I do think there is some truth to it though. Instead of using the word soy. I think most male feminists are afraid of pointing out problematic behavior or gender role expectations from women, so they have to pretend like it don't exist. But this set them up for failure during debates or conversations with conservatives or red pillers. Since conservatives and red pillers will use the gender role expectations and problematic behaviors from women as ammo against them in debates about masculinity.

This is where I come in. Since I'm not worry about coming off as a white knight. I don't have to worry about defending the "angelic/wonderful" image of women. When talking to men that are conservatives or red pillers in both online and real life. The same tactic they use on male feminists, they try to use this tactic on me too. And they end up failing pretty bad. This have created a lot of comedy gold movements.

For example, a conservative or red piller saying it's a man job to protect women. And my response is men shouldn't be expected to be women protectors, they are not disposable. And then the conservative or red piller would usually pull out their "woman want this" card and tell me most women expect this from men. And my response was I don't give a shit what most women want. And they would have no comeback after that. And remain speechless.

Because the conservatives or red pillers view women as minorities or LGBTQ people in this case or context. Racists and homophobes know they won't get a lot of people to agree with them. But they think they can get more people on their side if a minority or LGBTQ person is regurgitating their talking points. Since they can say "oh look this black person agrees with me, therefore I must be right". So the same thing is happening here with gender. Conservatives and red pillers like to use the hegemonic masculinity preferences of most women (including females feminists) as ammo against male feminists to make it seem like their point about masculinity and what it means to be a "real man" is right.

And male feminists fall for this trap every time in debates about masculinity and manhood. Because again they refused to acknowledge the hegemonic masculinity preferences most women have, since they don't want to ruined the "women are wonderful" image, or contradict their talking points (women don't want that). Even female conservatives or women in the red pill communities, use this same tactic themselves on male feminists. Saying something like "You are a male feminist, so why are you talking down to a woman in a debate".

This trap would've never work on me. Because I would just respond with this gotcha right here "since you are a woman who doesn't think men and women are equal, you shouldn't be talking to me in a debate then, since we are not equal". I kid you not I had a lot women who are conservatives or red pillers speechless with this line lol.

Again so you shouldn't fall for these simple traps or fish baits. And I think being a white knight is the main factor that makes male feminists usually fall for these traps. Since they feel the need to defend the honor of women at all times. Men shouldn't let women or female feminists influence their opinions. They must know what's right, and what's wrong without trying to get validation or brownie points from their female peers.

This is why I don't identify as a male feminist, despite being more left leaning in real life. Because it's a double edged sword. On one side, for obvious reasons I don't want to be labeled a misogynist or woman hater for not supporting women rights. But on the other side also at the same time I don't want to give the impression that I'm this huge white knight who will fight for women whether they are right or wrong. Since I would constantly be walking on eggshells around feminists with this mentality.

For example, if someone ask me what is my opinion on abortion, only fans, makeup, or anything women do with their bodies. My typical response is I don't give shit what women do with their bodies, they can do whatever they want. This response doesn't come off as too white knighty or "soy" like Destiny says. Matter of fact this is the best response, because you are going against hypoagency. Since you are showing it's ok for women to have agency, to make their own chances.

With this mindset, I don't fall for the simple traps conservatives and red pillers have in debates about masculinity and manhood. They say men should protect women. And I say men shouldn't be expected to be protectors, because it's a rigid male gender role expectation. And their response is "bUt mOsT wOmEn wAnT mEn tO bE pRoTeCtOrS tHoUgH". And I don't try to pretend like most women don't want that, like the disingenuous male feminists. My response is, ok I don't care what most women want. Men being expected to be protectors is still a rigid expectation forced on men, regardless of whether women like it or not.

Because in conclusion even the conservatives and red pillers themselves know using women hegemonic masculinity preferences as examples is a great way to influence men opinions. Hench why they like using this trap in debates about masculinity against male feminists who fall for the trap easily, by taking the fish bait.