Run Bob Run 😂

My claims aren't baseless, you worship a religion. That's fine, whatever makes you happy. But like all religions it's not a personal thing, you want to impress it on other people. You want to expand. It's a religion.

Change your lifestyle for the better all you want, but proselytizing and "converting" people isn't a life style choice, it's a religion attempting to expand.

Personal health = vegetarian

Believing animals have "rights" like they're human beings, thinking people who don't agree with your religion are "toxic incels" while you pretended to be MGTOW to come in here and proselytizing, pretty much just sums your religion up = Vegan.

You'd make an excellent Christian.

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I'm pretty sure ethos is how credible I am. Atleast that's what I've learned in English class

Ethos: "the distinguishing character, sentiment, moral nature, or guiding beliefs of a person, group, or institution".

The premise of veganism isn't to cause zero suffering. The only way to do that is to kill yourself.

That was my point.

The basic premise of veganism is that since we don't need to kill and eat animals to survive then why would you?

I already answered that. Your vegan choices harm the earth and more animals than my Sambar choices. Sambar in my country are an introduced animal and my government pay people to destroy them because their numbers are out of control and they damage the environment. If I don't hunt them they will be killed anyway, and they provide me sustenance without agriculture being involved.

There really is no "humane" way to kill a sentient being who doesn't want to die and has done nothing wrong.

When I eat Sambar I am causing one death per month or two. Your veganism kills many more animals than that. Not just through harvesters killing small animals like rodents, but also farmers that kill animals to protect their crops. You just like to pretend you're not causing sentient deaths because it makes you feel better.

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My vegan choices harm the Earth less than eating meat would. Even if it was more harmful to the environment it wouldn't be harmful to the point where it's not sustainable, even if every person was a vegan; where as meat is rapidly destroying this earth.

Regardless, the point wasn't refuted and it still stands. Just because it's better for the Earth doesn't mean that it's moral. ESPECIALLY in this context.

As for killing animals because their populations get out of control, most vegans don't have a problem with this. If we HAVE to in order to save other species and ecosystems then I think it's morally justified. What I notice though is that people like to take the exception or the small minority and spin it as if it's the majority. As if killing animals because you HAVE TO in order to save ecosystems is an excuse for you to kill and eat meat just because it tastes good.

Imagine that type of logic applied to anything else. "Killing should be okay because what about the small percentage of people who kill in self defense?"

Claiming that veganism causes more deaths than that of Sambar is a pretty hefty claim. You have to factor in things like population biases, consider the amount of plant based foods (80% I believe) that are going to be fed to animals for factory farming, how many animals would be getting killed if most people started doing it, moral implications plus many more things. NO vegan pretends they aren't causing suffering and death to animals and almost all of us are FULLY aware that we indirectly cause suffering and death to that of animals. But we realise that in order to cause ZERO suffering we would have to kill ourselves which isn't reasonable at all.

Is there a MORE ethical, reasonable way live such as Sambar? That is up to you to prove, really.

Edit: You also have to ask yourself, what happens when the population of these animals DO get under control? Then what? And apparently, Sambar populations are being overhunted and are listed as a vunerable species.

[–]WaywardStag0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

My vegan choices harm the Earth less than eating meat would.

I already showed how that's not true.

where as meat is rapidly destroying this earth.

Now you're circling. Eating Sambar is not destroying the earth. Sambar damage the earth and are killed by my government to protect the earth. You have no argument against my points so you ignore them.

Just because it's better for the Earth doesn't mean that it's moral. ESPECIALLY in this context.

We've already established that "do no harm" is impossible, and if we are to make the selfish decision to keep living anyway then eating Sambar is more moral than the agricultural destruction that you support.

As if killing animals because you HAVE TO in order to save ecosystems is an excuse for you to kill and eat meat just because it tastes good.

That's a very muddled argument. I never said anything about "taste good". Would you prefer the animals that are killed to protect ecosystems to rot?

Imagine that type of logic applied to anything else. "Killing should be okay because what about the small percentage of people who kill in self defense?"

That's a poor argument. You are arguing "all killing is bad" and the counter argument is "not all killing is unjustified".

Claiming that veganism causes more deaths than that of Sambar is a pretty hefty clai m. You have to factor in things like population biases, consider the amount of plant based foods (80% I believe) that are going to be fed to animals for factory farming, how many animals would be getting killed if most people started doing it, moral implications plus many more things.

How ridiculous. What do population biases have to do with the fact that one Sambar death provides 200 pounds of meat? What does factory farming have to do with Sambar which aren't farmed? What does the number of people have to do with it? Moral implications have already been discussed. "Many more things" is a cop-out. You are throwing out rubbish to avoid addressing my arguments.

NO vegan pretends they aren't causing suffering and death to animals and almost all of us are FULLY aware that we indirectly cause suffering and death to that of animals. But we realise that in order to cause ZERO suffering we would have to kill ourselves which isn't reasonable at all.

Right, and if you ate Sambar you would be causing only one animal death per 200 pounds of meat. If you look up the numbers of animals killed in agriculture, you will see that you are causing more deaths than that. You could reduce suffering by eating Sambar. But then you wouldn't be able to virtue signal and feel superior.

Is there a MORE ethical, reasonable way live such as Sambar? That is up to you to prove, really.

Have done. You ignore every one of my points.

And apparently, Sambar populations are being overhunted and are listed as a vunerable species.

Completely ignorant claim. If the over-population problem goes away then we would need to re-evaluate the balance. Right now, the most ethical food I can get is Sambar.

[–]GimmeYourJuices-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

You did not prove that vegan foods are more harmful to the environment. You SUGGESTED that vegan foods are more harmful than Sambar meat. However, animal agriculture has been proven to be the leading cause of global pollution. Land used for animal agriculture is 20x that of what is for plant-based foods. But more importantly the plant-based foods that are less sustainable, of the sustainable, are being fed to livestock.

When I claimed meat is destroying the Earth you were supposed to take it in the context of factory farming, not hunting. I'm not sure if I wasn't more clear on my end (which I believe I was) or you were trying to strawman me or be intellectually dishonest.

You're claim: We've already established that "do no harm" is impossible, and if we are to make the selfish decision to keep living anyway then eating Sambar is more moral than the agriculture destruction that you support

Is just the fallacy of saying that since we can't stop all suffering then any suffering is okay. It's a flawed point of view for obvious reasons. This could be used to justify many different horrible things.

Me stating that killing because one has to being no excuse to kill needlessly was to highlight how people like you try to find moral grey areas and SUGGEST that it's the majority. I still acknowledge that what you are doing is morally justified, it's just that you've suggested that since THAT particular grey area where it's okay to kill and eat animals then all means of eating meat is okay.

I'm not sure how you think that my argument stating that grey areas should never overturn (through my use of killing as an example) the general rule is poor. You're just talking out of your ass now.

You still have to PROVE that Sambar meat causes less suffering than veganism. This is because 80% of crops grown don't go to huamns for consumption, they go to livestock. Not to mention that the amount of people that EXCLUSIVELY eat plan-based products are a small minority of people. About 2%. There are soo many more things to factor in.

Edit: To add, hunting Sambar isn't something everyone can do and I wouldn't consider it reasonable to expect everyone to do so.

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Title	Run Bob Run 😂
Author	mimiczx
Upvotes	330
Comments	92
Date	October 31, 2019 12:26 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/dpmspl/run_bob_run/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/run-bob-run.391063 https://theredarchive.com/post/391063

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