TradCon is not MGTOW

DerKomissar1 · 2018-02-04T18:21:29+00:00

Tradcons - the rise of the chameleons. Will say or do (almost) anything as a "lure" to bring men back to the plantation. Yes even pose as MGTOW.

DangZagnut · 2018-02-04T18:37:43+00:00

Trad Cons mean well, but they do seem pretty into sticking women on pedestals.

The alt-right / nazi contingent used to hang around here more, but it's purely for recruitment. This has been going on reddit for quite awhile, and not just here. They're always trying to recruit around "nhilist" or "disaffected" subreddits. It's their thing, but they've by and large left, because MGTOW mostly aren't "joiners".

Trad Cons have some similar "complaints", that women have stopped being feminine, have turned into a bunch of insta-th0ts and slutty and ruining their lives and other things. No fault divorce issues and children used as bargaining chips, etc. So I get where they're coming from, but they seem to think there was this magical time when everything was perfect.

Trad Cons love to use words like "degeneracy". It's one of their favorite. You can always identify them because they'll throw degenerate around a lot. Degenerate means having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline.

So what that's telling me, is that there was this "utopia" with masculine men, feminine women, and sticking them up high on a pedestal in a doll cage, and it's crumbling around them. There's this "turn back the clock" mentality.

So that's already a problem, because that's real close to white knighting, simping, and all the other bullshit that's a stupid idea in the first place.

A lot of our "critics" like to say MGTOW is the flip side of feminism, because our critics are mentally retarded, but Trad Cons are the flip side of feminism. Trad Cons think the 1950s is some sort of utopian ideal, and feminists thing 1950 was a horror movie. You find a lot of trad cons in /r/mensrights trying to set the clock back, which is why mens rights have accomplished nothing in decades.

In most cases they mean well. They'll say things like "you just have to meet the right/good woman" or "man up and such", unfortunately this mostly just comes down to insults like Tucker Carlson did during the Marriage Strike interview where he totally trad con insulted all MGTOW at once. Not that he would care, but it was a very common thing. He meant well, but was quite shaming language.

Can a TradCon be MGTOW? Sure. Just like a religious person can become an atheist.

Trad Cons have a hard time become MGTOW because they have to throw out a lot of their childhood to do so, so maybe it's not for them. The MGTOW Tradcons I do know, are the the kind run through he divorce wringer. They're the ones that became MGTOW and often will use the reasons of unfair family courts, gynocentric societal issues, cultural issues, cheating wives, feminism etc. As if any of those things are fixable. But that's their reasons, which certainly makes sense to me. I've never been through the divorce wringer, but then going to the DMV stressed me out, so if it's anything like that, count me out.

However, that's an a->b thing. Sure, you may have had women on pedestals, but they aren't there any more. So having a Trad Con belief system that turned out to be wrong in your life is just what happened, and you were there. Now you're here.

But Tradcons that just wander in, hurl insults to feel masculine and defend m'lady's honor, they have no place and get thrown out like any other refuse that washes up on our shores.

silive · 2018-02-04T19:21:12+00:00

In addition, tradcuckery is the worst enemy of MGTOW and even worse than feminism, IMHO. The tradcuck brigaders are also quietly down-voting anything that they perceive as offensive to their religious dogma. Not that I care much about it but it's just something I noticed and which strongly indicates their presence. Bottom line: they are not our friends at all, just temporary allies at best. P.S. To paraphrase the Quran, do not take tradcucks or libtards as your friends or partners...

MTGOStark · 2018-02-04T23:12:18+00:00

Tradcon is a form of gynocentrism.

fcb98292 · 2018-02-04T23:51:00+00:00

TradCon is where I would love to live, but cannot because 70% of the voting population support women's rights over equal rights. Hence, I must support MGTOW as there is no fix in sight for feminism, and no desire to change in feminists.

KaitouNala · 2018-02-04T20:18:42+00:00

eh... i like to quote christian scriptures that basically contain mgtow wisdom from over 3k years ago.

kind of reinforcing the awalt from way back, i was raised traditional but im half hoping you arent referring to me, not so much trying to push traditional values as much as prove that men throughout history have known the game women are playing... we just convinced ourselves we were "more evolved" and willfully forgot everything we had learned over the years.

sidel3 · 2018-02-05T02:10:57+00:00

It's simple. No marriage. No cohabitation. No babies.

CeleritySteam · 2018-02-04T20:47:15+00:00

The TradCON ideals are a lot more amusing than the TradCONers themselves. Think about it.

Their primary argument is basically MUH WHITE BABIES... meaning they think everything is genetic, including ideas and genetics are everything. They then worship little girls (females), and they're self aware enough they realize these little girls control and gatekeep reproduction. And then they're terrified of non white men, particularly immigrants because they're fully aware these little girls will cosplay goats for Mohammed if given half a chance instead of sleeping with them and even if prevented from doing that they drag down the genetics with their own average (at best) genetics when logically, if you want say a highly intelligent kid 2 parents with high intelligence will produce that much more readily than 1.

Yet they do not make the logical correlation that maybe, just maybe, thots are just as incompetent at playing natural selection as they are at everything else including maturing past the age of 12 and if they are serious about accomplishing their goals instead of merely virtue signalling they must begin by replacing the defective females. You know, the ones that vote in the third worlder immigrants in the first place.

internethjaelten · 2018-02-04T22:09:26+00:00

Same with Incels, been having a hard time with this sub since Incels was shut down...

TempleOfIron · 2018-02-04T20:11:49+00:00

I'm pretty sure TradCons can be MGTOW, even if you think that's contradictory. Why does every MGTOW think their personal beliefs define what MGTOW is? Disagreements are fine, but this sub is purity spiraling. Soon any non-monk will be considered non-MGTOW. This dogma is unhealthy and becoming what it fights.

closer_to_the_lung · 2018-02-04T20:23:13+00:00

As the sub count grows, more and more individuals that don't actually belong here continue to build their nest.

Tradcons have been infiltrating this sub since <5k members. At first, it was the spare individual trying to push their agenda (that no one paid any attention to). Now, being close to 50k subscribers, there are a ton of them here that just pat each other on the back all day.

Same can be said about the incels. Tons of them around and they don't belong here either.

Both groups have victimhood complexes that could rival any feminist. Both groups of individuals think that sexual interaction and/or pussy actually means something (they obviously haven't had enough of it to know that it isn't special).

I'd prefer if they both just abandoned MGTOW and went off and formed their own group together. They are very much alike (more than either group wants to admit) and the tradcons that are looking for new blood to proselytize would find it much easier if the pool they were trying to convert were made up of incels, versus actual MGTOW.

What "I'd prefer" isn't going to happen, though. It's just going to get worse as the subscriber count grows. More popularity equals more idiots. Tons of "nice" things have gone to shit because of that. Frankly, that's how the internet turned into a cesspool; everyone and their grandmothers started using it and it wasn't just for "nerds", "losers" and "introverts" anymore.

FUCK_REDDIT_22 · 2018-02-04T22:30:21+00:00

IMO the Bible has some redpill truths in it such as the book of Ecclesiates but if you have to follow a faith just to be strong willed then you're most likely gonna be easily pursuaded

john_the_other · 2018-02-05T01:00:00+00:00

Finally someone called out these tradcucks. A "traditionalist" woman is much like a parasite.

I-am-the-lul · 2018-02-04T21:41:09+00:00

Tradcon: Sure, marriage as an institution is heavily biased against men but if you find that magical NAWALT, marry her and have lots of kids, you can save the West.
MGTOW: Marriage is broken, there is no way of knowing if any woman is a true NAWALT or a chameleon so it is better for individual men to assume AWALT and avoid marriage like the plague.

chadchaddingtonIV · 2018-02-05T00:13:45+00:00

Go your own way. Just not when that way is tradcon.

notacrookatall · 2018-02-04T22:47:17+00:00

A-fucking-men.

bonusfruit · 2018-02-05T00:48:26+00:00

Jordan Peterson and other clever conservatives have dealt a bit of a blow to mgtow in a sense. They make it sound so tempting and practical to aspire to a stable tradcon existence. They make it seem like we need only cast off our post war on men cynicism and find a good girl to build a family with to defeat the Marxists and Muslim invaders. They seem to leave out that the legal system, academia, state, and overall culture is still bitterly opposed to men thriving in any way. They demand we rise up and take responsibility without any actual incentives or the authority to run a family. Fuck all of that noise

migmxke · 2018-02-05T02:31:14+00:00

Trad-Con = TradCuck tribe herd mentality, mainly aided by imaginary sky daddies telling what u are allowed to do and what not. MGTOW is a personal philosophy gains strength from the individual and the strive for his happiness. I don't really understand how can 1 person be religious MGTOW, because religion is all about creating SHAME and FEAR so that you give yourself away to be a dummy slave to a system and return back the plantation, in order to protect some arbitrary values, so that the rich become richer and maintain their theocracy and status-quo. To be honest, many feminazis and Left-tards also reject traditional values, but they do it for their OWN self-interest and WITH a political agenda. MGTOW for me is all about rejecting the traditional system (god, state etc,) but without the political agenda. I am basically a rational guy who does NOT want to sacrifice himself for ANYONE and I gain values from books like Ayn Rand's "Virtue of selfishness" or "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" (the mgtow all-time classic). Don't forget that MARRIAGE (=a religious or state deal) is basically the enemy of Mgtow.

redditloginfail · 2018-02-05T03:27:09+00:00

I lived the tradcon "dream" for a while. It only sets you up for greater disappointment later. NEVER trust a woman. They will most certainly NOT stay loyal. Any time, effort, money, etc. you put into "building a life together" with someone should be considered a loss, and a loss only. It's inevitable.

TempleOfIron · 2018-02-04T23:51:25+00:00

[deleted]

XRBislife · 2018-02-05T05:09:30+00:00

I came from a tradcon upbringing. Although I won't date women because I'm mgtow. I have no beefs with them. They're just Brought up the at that society had once placed it's value. They're generally good people.

Original_Username7 · 2018-02-05T05:06:03+00:00

The disciples said, “If that's how it is between a man and a woman, it's better not to get married.” Jesus told them, “Only those people who have been given the gift of staying single can accept this teaching. Some people are unable to marry because of birth defects or because of what someone has done to their bodies. Others stay single in order to serve God better. Anyone who can accept this teaching should do so.” Matthew 19:10-12

"It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife." - Proverbs 21:9

"I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare." - Ecclesiastes 7:26

"I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord." - 1 Corinthians 7:32-35

To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. - 1 Corinthians 7:8

I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. - 1 Corinthians 7:26-28

dialecticwizard · 2018-02-05T06:44:39+00:00

This!!! In fact it is through traditionalism that we got here in the first place. This idea that life revolves around sex, breeding and bringing offspring into the world. From that emerged the worship of the vagina. Like a drug addiction.

jgui6462 · 2018-02-04T21:44:41+00:00

The trad con is an ideal. It's just impossible in today's society.

kp98409 · 2018-02-04T22:16:49+00:00

Seriously, retarded threads like this make me see why other people look down on this community. We try to eat our own. Trad cons can be as mgtow as anyone idiot.

Even libshits can be mgtows, just stupid versions of us.

AReditAccount · 2018-02-04T22:43:28+00:00

DISCUSSION ABOUT TRADCON AND OTHERS SHOULD ALWAYS BE ALLOWED.

Normally when you see MGTOWs talking about tradcon stuff they are never talking about it for themselves but for society as a system. No mgtow that experienced enough with women will want TRADCON politics to influence their lives. Others are yes infiltrators, and others are gullible incels, or young kids who dont know much about much. If they advocate such things to themselves, believing to profit from it, they are oblivious to what tradcon use to be, and yes we have feminism and sjws, but at least you are not forced to man up or ostracized as an homo or outcast for mgtow like before...in part because feminism screamed so much equality that now we have a weapon against them, EQUALITY. But yes feminism is not about equality and women crave domination...I could go on and on.

Another discussion on the other side of the spectrum, is wether islam is good or bad, and in the context that it was created was it really that bad... One thing is for sure, tradcon analysis, or even discussing religions with the background of mgtow should always be allowed and not censored. Sure islam is bad, and tradcon is bad, but we should be able to discuss it and argue it, and present valid points. This is not another cult, where things get censored, or a specific analysis of society is adopted by everyone. Sure mgtows discuss tradcon, especially because its the only system that we have experience that worked best for society, but not necessarily for the individual...

Speaking for myself, I know I could live on for 1000 years without family and kids and live very happy. But what if everyone adopted this "fuck the world" lifestyle, perhaps its not as good for society as a whole. And thats what advanced stage mgtows come to the unfortunate conclusion, that mgtow is good for the individual, but it is civil disobedience, and it is causing more chaos and perhaps speeding up the collapse, not that i care. Of course mgtow is the best for you. But it is true that if everyone was a mgtow, there wouldnt be no fathers, and perhaps there would be no guys working their ass off in shitty jobs. Mgtow liberates men yes, but you know a lot of work and development was done by simps in stress to please their wives, its undeniable...

Islam has the same effect of tradcon but it stagnates scientific endeavour. Although Islam is much more effective in controlling women nature forever and permanently. And christianity and tradcon is what always allows feminism and gynocentrism by cycles, where men are always the disposable tool.

fmanly · 2018-02-04T22:50:18+00:00

But how can you 'Go Your Own Way' if you follow christian hive mind traditional values? You're still going someone else's way.

So, if you're advocating marriage in its current state I don't think that is compatible with MGTOW, however I don't really buy into the "you're still going someone else's way" thing.

There is nothing you can do which hasn't been done by somebody else before. Do you want to go live on a boat and do your own thing? Oh well, looks like you're just doing the same thing that a thousand guys have done before you.

Ultimately MGTOW is about recognizing that modern relationships don't work. You don't have to reject the way relationships worked 100 years ago to be MGTOW. You just have to reject relationships as they exist today. You don't have to reject or adhere to just about anything else.

If you want to devote your life to the precepts of some religion I don't see an issue with being MGTOW, unless that religion tells you to get married.

I'm not religious, but it seems just as silly to be anti-christian here as it is to be pro-christian. If somebody who is christian wants to talk about Paul's life of celibacy I don't have a problem with that. If somebody wants to talk about avoiding women as a buddhist I don't have a problem with that either.

People read too much into the "your own way" bit. I didn't pick the acronym but it has always been more about avoiding relationships with women than anything else. Beyond that as long as you're making the choices that you think are best for you, I could care less if that means you're a libertarian, or a republican, or a democrat, or a communist, or whatever.

BipolarKing14 · 2018-02-04T23:32:08+00:00

Thanks for the post O.P.... I agree with you fully. Some time back I commented on a post that had read cucks complaining Europe was becoming a 3rd world....I explicitly told them if you are truely MGTOW you should never lose sleep on such issues.... UP NEXT : all sorts shaming tactics

But I digress...to me personally the core essence of MGTOW is walking away from the rotten deal society is offering especially when it comes to relationships with women.

Going your own new Uncharted way.

cfuse · 2018-02-05T02:01:22+00:00

I suppose the issue here is that MGTOW is an individualist strategy and tradcon is a societal strategy. If everyone/the majority is MGTOW society cannot exist. At some level you have to be willing to accept societal failure (and/or revolution) as a consequence of being MGTOW, and I don't think everyone can. Accepting that some things need to die is not something people are good at.

I can understand why people want stability and why tradcon would appeal to that desire. I think everyone here can also understand that ridding oneself of gynocentric urges is also incredibly hard, and how that could also result in tradcon thinking. MGTOW is undeniably an extremist philosophy, and most people aren't extremists and reject extremism.

Another factor is that MGTOW is hard. If you're a tradcon you don't have to come up with a plan, and nobody will overly criticise or fault you for being socially conservative. The same cannot be said of MGTOW, you have to come up with all the answers to how to live your life yourself, and you'll be constantly harassed about them if you're honest with people about them (given that is so, there's probably an argument for the reverse of this post's topic: MGTOW stealthing as tradcons. Hide yourself in the social conservatives and fly straight under the radar).

Finally, I really don't care whether some tradcons mislabel themselves MGTOW or not. Ultimately MGTOW is an entirely solitary activity. As long as sufficient education as to the core philosophy exists for those that are interested then it doesn't bother me that some people are getting it wrong.

jaycee9 · 2018-02-05T02:55:33+00:00

I'd throw in trannies, homos, and dudes who bang plastic dolls...

Original_Username7 · 2018-02-05T04:33:37+00:00

Couple things...

Tradcon ≠ True Jesus follower. Do NOT lump all "Christians" in together, even Jesus said many of them are merely claiming to be His followers. If this place starts gatekeeping saying no Christian can be a true MGTOW (Jesus specifically legitimized MGTOW in Matt 19:10-12), well then this subreddit is over.

Also, most tradcons say they don't support feminism, but in reality, they're still very gynocentric in their mindsets. Modern evangelical churches in the US are some of the most gynocentric places you can go, it's sickening.

time4vipassana · 2018-02-05T05:50:13+00:00

Tradcons think hypergamy can be fully managed which is wishful thinking, to say the least. They recognize many problems of modern society, but their overall solution is poor. Turning back the dial of history does nothing as it addresses cultural points when many of today's problems are rooted in biology.

1st10Amendments · 2018-02-05T06:12:44+00:00

There are a LOT of comments so I didn’t read any after the first, but... FWIW, I am no longer a Christian, but from what I recall, Paul in his epistles said he wished men would stay single like himself, and eschew the soles of women, as he saw women as all sorts of evil creatures, blaming them for everything including Original Sin. That being said, I agree with the OP. Traditional Christianity of today bears little resemblance to the program set down by Paul.

Data2018 · 2018-02-05T09:41:56+00:00

For you to be mgtow you most likely had been tradcon. I don't get what your complaint is about. Almost every post on here with a mgtow whining about how women are now is basically coming from a trad-con point of view.

kaczan3 · 2018-02-05T14:28:53+00:00

Yeah, there are a ton of trandcon infiltrators, and sadly even some MGTOWS lose their way and go trad-con, like the popular youtuber Turd Flinging Monkey.

declineofmgtow · 2018-04-10T00:48:56+00:00

"The only time tradcons and MGTOW men align their beliefs is when it's towards feminism and gynocentrism."

Trad cons enable feminists and pander to women.

"TLDR: Tradcon is not MGTOW. Your values and politics have no place in MGTOW philosophy. We only share a common enemy feminism and gynocentrism."

Wrong trad cons are geocentric, and are often just as anti male as any feminist.

MGTOW has already been taken over by the trad con's

darksats · 2018-07-28T09:34:19+00:00

Gynocentrism is a part of traditionalism.

TempleOfIron · 2018-02-04T23:03:33+00:00

We are men going our own way by forging our own identities and paths to self-defined success; cutting through collective ideas of what a man is.

BlackTerrus · 2018-02-05T21:37:44+00:00

I guess I have no place in this sub even though I'm a conservative Christian who has no interest in getting married or having kids.

I want to focus on my career and interests and be the best I can be.

Good to know I wasted all that time.

Mgtowthoughts · 2018-02-04T22:35:23+00:00

Hey dipshit why don’t you respond to my replies instead of starting your own sub whining about tradcons. I simply stated that traditionalism is the only way to build a civilization with the best possible offspring. What an asshat this dude is. He wants to label me a tradcon cause I can actually see benefits in traditionalism. I am not talking about the modern day traditionalism. I am talking about the days when men had authority and no fault divorce. It is the best way to raise kids. I don’t want to marry or have kids even if the laws were changed but I want society to thrive and for my culture to be preserved instead of being invaded by other cultures that know how to treat their women.

TradCon is not MGTOW

Comments

Plenty of nihilistic atheists do the same -- or WORSE!

There are ditches (and bitches) on BOTH sides of the road.

-- IOW Parasite.

Idiot.

DISCUSSION ABOUT TRADCON AND OTHERS SHOULD ALWAYS BE ALLOWED.

Title	TradCon is not MGTOW
Author	TempleOfIron
Upvotes	169
Comments	122
Date	February 4, 2018 6:12 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/7v8dnl/tradcon_is_not_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/tradcon-is-not-mgtow.597664 https://theredarchive.com/post/597664