What is MGTOW?

jennaydoesntloveyou · 2018-07-18T14:40:58+00:00

Read the "Hospital Advisory" portion of the sidebar.

I don't resent women. I also don't resent tigers.

I don't hop in the tiger pen at the zoo, and I don't hop in relationships with women for the same reason.

I like looking at both of them though.

BoobToArmRatio · 2018-07-18T16:56:58+00:00

Going through life naturally led me to MGTOW.

Be a blue pilled idiot following the narrative everyone was taught.
- Study hard, get a good job.
- Find a nice girl, start dating her, then move in together.
- Make sacrifices for her and our future family.
- Get cheated on by her while on a business trip.
Realize that women might not be as good as I was led to believe.
- Be angry at women for the terrible things that some women have done.
- Be angry at myself for believing the narrative in the first place.
Discover the manosphere through TRP.
- Go monk mode.
- Improve myself TRP style: lift, maximize my SMV and game.
- Go out a lot and sleep with a ton of attractive women.
- Realize that sex is kind of overrated.
Go MGTOW.
- Improve myself MGTOW style: work toward financial independence and ignore all distractions.
- Trim the excess fat in my life (women, bad friends, things that just waste time, and things that I don't really enjoy)

Now I'm a 31 year old approaching my second comma. My career is exactly where I want it to be and it allows me to pursue business opportunities on my own with limited financial risk. I don't drink, I don't party, and I'm in great shape. I have a group of close friends with similar hobbies and goals in life (and the means to achieve them.) I travel frequently and go wherever I want (generally snowboarding in cold places and scuba diving in warm places.) I'll be fatFIRE well before I turn 40 and nothing will stop me from reaching my objectives. Both my day-to-day happiness and general life satisfaction are at the highest point they've ever been.

I have pretty much everything a woman could want in a partner, but no need for women. Life is great!

Chill-BL · 2018-07-18T17:20:52+00:00

[removed]

jennaydoesntloveyou · 2018-07-18T15:49:32+00:00

No resentment towards any women, except perhaps my mother because of the way she treats my father.
I was MGTOW before I knew what it was.
I independently came to the conclusion that marriage is a terrible financial risk for men.
40+
Nope
Depends. I have spoken openly about it and if asked directly I wouldn't shy away from what I believe/practice.
n/a
So far, in my personal life, everyone has at least listened to what I shared. That seems to be more of a reflection of the company I keep rather than a reflection of society at large. I know without a doubt that I couldn't share anything related to MGTOW in the workplace. It's a conversation that requires more openness to honest truth-seeking than our divided society is bringing to the table these days.

Lexeklock · 2018-07-18T17:15:54+00:00

I don't know a lot about the movement and the people who are a part of it

Its not a movement, its a way to see life more clearly.

A movement means leaders and common laws, we only show you the door, its up to you to cross it ( the matrix )

Do most of you feel resentment against women in general? Or is that more aimed towards females you've known personally? Do you even feel any of that, or is it just kinda like "meh, whatever"? Again, I'm completely serious and just totally oblivious to what's going on.

Some would feel resentment toward females that they encountered, some would feel it for all women and some wouldnt at all.

For me, hating on women it like hating on a scorpion or a tiger : You would not hate a scorpion because it is his own nature to sting for survival.

Women lie, deceive , cheat and manipulate because it is their nature, you should be at peace and just accept it.

I say accept it, but stay away from it, you dont go after a tiger or a snake in the jungle, even if they look beautiful or breathtaking for the risk of loosing your life. Same for women, just keep your relation to a minimum with them and you ll be fine.

In what ways has your life improved/changed ever since you heard about MGTOW? What was your life like before?

Standard story, multiple relationships, they cheat on you, use you and abuse you and you try to see the fault in yourself rather than what the truth is : did my best to be respectful , to have a relationship that might be called "perfect" yet they create problems like a human creates CO2.

I'm at peace right now, keeping my relationships with them to a professional minimum.

Was it a conscious choice that you made, or was it more of a realization you had one day? (eg fuck this shit, I'm buying a boat/putting up an indoor pool so I can play Fifa, drink beer, and chill...) and then felt this was what you needed all along? Was it even something you chose, or do you feel like it was the only option you had?

Yes indeed, It didnt come just one day by itself, rather it was progressively more evident to me that the better choice would be to give up on women and focus on myself.

My own experience and the experience of people i hold very close to me are what made the choice easier for me , no men i know are happy with their relationships ( we re talking academics , doctors, lawyers , engineers .... ) and my own experience wasnt very different : starts like a dream, then goes only one way : down.

How old are you?

29

Do you avoid all interaction?

Sadly this is a luxury i can not afford , women makes 50% of my field ( the smart ones would know what area of expertise i belong to )

Do you talk about MGTOW openly?

Nope. Remember, this is not a movement and i am not trying to recruit or influence anyone.

Yes if one of my friends is in a bad deal, i would tell him to take some time off and focus on himself, if someone call a women a cheater, i would tell him that a lot of women i know did the same, but i would in no way tell someone to go his own way.

One's way is simply this : HIS way, some men here are more red pill than MGTOW, but it is the way THEY choose , who am i to tell them they are wrong ?

Again, MGTOW is a personal choice , whatever choice you make will always be the choice that suits you best, we simply help those who seeks guidance.

What lead you to join the movement?

PUA > Redpill > MGTOW , as did most men my age.

Like most men here, we thought it was us to blame , we tried to improve , but it was either too much asking for some, or it didnt matter at all for some others.

Some of my friends lift, are extremely smart, make 6 figures and have moral grounds that are unchangeable , yet they always end up miserable for one reason or another.

How do people react to it vs how do you wish they reacted?

People react to it emotionally, but i wish they would rationally.

It is easy to say to generalize and say MGTOWs are incels, idiots, virgins and whatever the media throws at us.

It takes a lot of thinking to realize that maybe, just maybe we're not all that wrong, and maybe there is a reason as to why men are reacting this way.

Every day, i see a lot of men on this sub show us glimpses of their lives, their cars, bikes, homes, secret gardens, talents and hobbies. You'd be lying to yourself if you can not see that we are not the 20 years old kids who cant get laid and hate on women for that.

A lot of subs here are successful and morally fit to say what they say.

The world as it is right now is made to favor women , it is made to give them every advantage they can without leading to a riot from men : recruitment quotas , easier interviews , less harsh punishments for the same crimes done by men, a justice system who sees women as this divine being that can do no wrong and most importantly : double standards everywhere.

Men only have 2 choices : either accept it and play the game , try to gamble your life ( false rape accusations, divorce horror stories, manipulation, cheating, abuse....) or just give up on that part of life.

Here in MGTOW, we see that given the current pros and cons, the logical choice is to give up on that part of life we call women.

DangZagnut · 2018-07-18T14:00:53+00:00

So you're writing an article or doing a study?

MaGeTOW · 2018-07-18T15:54:10+00:00

MGTOW is the sign of women's best era coming to an end.

jennaydoesntloveyou · 2018-07-18T16:28:39+00:00

well, I’ll bite. but don’t quote me anywhere, ever.

I think I only feel resentment for real slights. there have been women in my life that have been assholes, but also women who I appreciate. In general, I judge people by their behaviour, not by their gender. relationships are, of course, a different ball game.
when I finally stopped caring and desperately finding a mate, I realized that personal happiness comes from within. it is not a person or a thing that makes you happy. this allowed me to refocus my time and get rid of some mental ”am I not good enough” baggage.
bit of both. I’ve been in relationships most of my adult life and I’ve rarely been happy in them. for many reasons they have all (more or less) been draining and stressfull experiences. at some point (after Tinder came to scene) the courting became ever more complicated, and I started getting more and more jaded. at some point I just stopped and asked myself ”is this really worth all the hassle?”. I think you know the answer :)
middle-aged, recently
no. I occasionally have some romantic interactions if both parties are ok with the ”no strings attached” policy. as for colleagues: I treat both men and women equally. with women I try avoid situations that can be metood but it is relatively easy in open office.
no. it is my life choice and I feel about pushing it like pushing a religion: not ok in professional or personal setting. some of my closest male friends know, but some of them had a bit crazy reactions (”so, do you automatically hate my gf?” - ”dude, it is your life, do what you want” - ”but can I let you meet her without you going insane on her?” - ”sigh...”) so I keep that info personal now.
as others have pointed out, it is more of a lifestyle. it was death by thousand cuts realization. I found the term MGTOW much later.
I wish people would stop smearing other current politics to this. this ”cultural war” or ”personal is political” bullshit is irritating as fuck. I would prefer people treat it like vegetarism or similar: personal choice

ForsakenFee · 2018-07-18T18:58:00+00:00

Since going MGTOW my defaults have changed. I dont see attractive females by default as potential mates anymore. Their new default is "in the way" if I happen to look their direction. Though I'm open to one convincing me their worth more than that, I dont expect it.
Its like taking the minimalist lifestyle attitude towards my mental health. I dont need a bunch of furtniture and appliance to clean, take care of and worry about, and neither do I need a relationship with women to add stress to my life.
I began this journey before finding MGTOW
late 20s
Ive crafted a life without interactions that need avoiding.
I dont talk about myself
serendipity
I dont talk about myself

jennaydoesntloveyou · 2018-07-18T14:12:43+00:00

For starters, it’s not a movement. Think more of a lifestyle. We are all going our own way, figuring out what that means for ourselves. For me, that means being the best I can possibly be. Starting companies and really trying to apply myself 110% in every aspect of my life. I would argue that even though we post a lot about women here, we don’t hate them or resent them. BUT, we are AWARE of the harm women can cause to us if we are not situationally careful. We are not pushing an agenda, we are just men from all walks of life, living our own lives, for ourselves.

Hind_Sight_20_20 · 2018-07-18T14:31:20+00:00

I'll bite

No resentment towards women, why would I they're just doing what society/biology tell them to do.
More money, less stress.
Conscious choice. You get shit on enough and toyed with so much it just isnt worth even trying anymore, either it's time, money, or emotional damage. AWALT is the truth it's just how they are, you will learn in time.
26
No I'd be publicly shamed by my peers.
It's not a movement stop calling it that......
As I stated above it's not worth it, in relationships what do women provide besides holes to fuck? Nothing! Emotional support is only on their terms, and God forbid you cry infront of a women, never seen a girlfriend run away faster.
I'd rather be left alone honestly, but I don't talk about it besides online, some of my guy friends are starting to see it by themselves.

VertWhweler · 2018-07-18T14:41:01+00:00

Not really. Most of us don't feel resentment torwads women. Rather we understand their nature. In this society, it isn't rare for a woman to cheat and manipulate men through societal gynocentrism and the courts, bettering her own life while ruining the man's. We go our own way to protect ourselves and ensure life without enslavement(marriage) and it's ruining effects(read up on a guy named Joe Kenick who lost a shit ton on a divorce.)
I'm a young lad and have always been chasing girls. I stumbled upon MGTOW a little bit less than a year ago learning about female nature through a channel called Sandman (check it out). I was encouraged to go my own way by the community and I did. Now all the time I spent chasing I now use to make cash and plan for the future, which is far more important.
I thought of a friend going through hard times with divorce (read below) and I remembered that women take more than they give in your life. You pay a pretty price for puss. In the end, will that dictate all of your achievements? Do women have anything else to offer? No. Pussy is cheap, the self is eternal.
Nearly 18
I'm not sure I can totally avoid interaction with women, but I try to limit interaction, keeping discussions to a professional area as well as some eyewitnesses in any case she calls rape for a waving my hand.
No. I am quite covert about it. However, when I am in a league of male buddies, I tend to throw in a few red pills. They just think I'm "that guy."
I had a friend, 42, let's call him Frank. I knew this guy well, he was a bud of mine from church and I saw him in the store occasionally. Now Frank was one of those good ole boys. He did shit when it was needed, provided as necessary for his family. He found out his wife cheated on him with some younger dude and she filed for divorce. Now he pays for kids he rarely sees and the jolly smile he always had on his face is rarely seen. His life took a turn like that, and it wasn't even his fault. Don't want that in my life. I'll stick to my dog, cat and three cockroaches.
This gynocentic misandrist society looks at any male movement or ideology, as well as majority male dominated spaces as attack zones. Anytime we speak out (MRA) we are put down like animals and scorned for our efforts. I don't really care how it's perceived as long as it reaches men, especially fellow young men, who's lives it will positively impact.

extrathinnboi_ · 2018-07-18T14:52:21+00:00

1.That's up to you to decide what your attitude towards women is. On reddit, a lot of the redditors are experiencing what we call "red pill rage" and might just ne venting their inner rage. Remember, MGTOW is about YOUR way so you do what you feel is right but never cohabitate or marry for your own sake.

Before MGTOW I was destined for the cuck life ; my life goal was to be a provider to a woman and I always told myself that if my partner would cheat on me I would wither forgive them or just shrug it off and walk out of the relationship. I was also under the radar of basically every woman and my social skill were never up to par with the competition. I eventually got into a relationship and realised how vapid and pointless they were (for me anyway). Granted you feel good and loved but it didn't outweigh the constant stress and anxiety I got from trying to maintain the relationship with my lacking social skills and with all my close friends closely eyeing my every move.

3.Yes, I chose MGTOW as previously stated I explained how I didn't like dating and relationships in general (waste of time and energy and a drain on the soul for little to no reward). As for how I discovered MGTOW,I kinda stumbled upon it someday on YouTube and told myself "Yo this makes sense". In addition I was red-pilled from an early age ( I was forced to do sexual acts multiple times with a woman pedophile when I was 6) and the constant shit tests my mom would make my dad and I endure as well as her constant whining over trivial matters.

No, I have female friends of my own. The thing is about friends is that they tend to reciprocate any good deeds or favours you've done for them. For example, I give them excess food I make and they give me free rides. As long as it's a win-win situation, I'm fine with relations with women. Again, your amount of interaction with women is YOUR choice.
No never do. First rule of MGTOW: Do not talk about MGTOW. I explained my views on marriage (and only marriage) to some of my close friends and even my male friends lash out and tell me "why do you hate women so much" or " you"ll change your tune once you find "the one" (gag)".
I wholeheartedly agree with the values set forth by MGTOW and desire to avoid all the hardships my dad had to endure because of women (twice divorced).
Refer to question 6.

Remember MGTOW is about YOUR way. You set the rules as to how your life should be and not any other person especially women.

If you need any further clarifications feel free to ask me. Peace and good luck brother on this new journey.

Mojo_666 · 2018-07-18T14:53:07+00:00

I will take your post on face value although there is some preconceptions in your tone which won’t go unnoticed.

1) I would say probably not most, in this sub maybe. I never felt it myself.

2) So much less stress, so much more time and money. Being able to do what I want when I want is incredibly liberating and suits my personality.

3) I got fed up with the hassle, I thought I was an oddity then discovered MGTOW and realized that I was far from an oddity.

4) Middle aged

5) Not at all, I don't avoid any, but I don't seek it out either.

6) Without using the term MGTOW yes.

7) This isn't a movement.

8) I never care, being middle aged has it's upsides I guess.

12bodynmind12 · 2018-07-18T17:33:49+00:00

The art and science of asking questions is the source of all knowledge. - Tomas Berger

That being said, I'll try to answer your questions.

No, I don't. Not everything revolves around women. Nevertheless, I've had my fair share of bad luck with women but I'm not bitter or resentful. I accepted the fact that I was naïve and misguided, without well-defined goals in life and easily manipulated, but that was my fault, not theirs. One thing should be clear, when you get hurt, self-reflection is hardly possible and everyone tends to lash out and chastise everything and everyone. You can interpret it as hatred but that's just a storm in someone's life. ''You can't calm the storm... so stop trying. What you can do is calm yourself. The storm will pass.''
Focus and discipline. Got rid of social expectations and social media. Working out literally saved me from drowning in endless despair. Now I speak 4 languages, English is 3rd. Spend more time in nature. Earned my master's degree. Published my scientific work. Bunch of other stuff but what's more important, finally, I feel I can breathe...
Before? I unconsciously depended on others to validate my self-worth. Girls were the highest mountain to climb, everything I did, I did it to get girls to like me. Everyone looked at me differently when I had a beautiful girl next to me. Likely, she was borderline narcissist, drained the soul and life out of me to get what she wanted. Life slapped me across the face and I woke up realizing that all that time I had been neglecting the only person that was really important, me.
The aforementioned can serve as an answer to this question.
25
Of course not. I have many female friends. When I want to go out and socialize, I really don't care about the gendre or whatever. I like to talk about interesting topics but I keep things formal and if it gets too personal I just back off. My friends are aware of my non-involvement in romantic relationships so if a girl likes me, she'll soon find out that I don't date. When I see a guy getting absolutely controlled and manipulated, I just think to myself: He will learn or he won't, not my problem.
Yes and no, it depends on how you define it. I advocate self-improvement, I talk about social norms and how they are absurd and meaningless etc. One would say that I talk about MGTOW without ever mentioning it.
It's not a movement. I researched bachelors and their lives. From Beethoven, Newton, Flaubert to Kant, Kierkegaard, Tesla etc. Men going against the tide formed of social norms and expectations is not a new trend or a modern thing.
I don't care how they react.

Hope this helps you. Have a nice day and thank you for reading.

astuteglute · 2018-07-18T19:20:18+00:00

Motivations are see through.
Early on, only 1.5 years in will explain further down
It was the everything my X did to me. Adultery, lie to family court, lie about my side of the family, taking my kids, the court not giving a fuck about any of it, the relationship was a vacuum of assets, time, and happiness. It was my decision to leave the marriage. I gave her every opportunity to succeed. Paid for different colleges-no degree, started/paid for numerous businesses no profit or drive to do so. Be a stay at home mom and live a simpler life style. She couldn't, drove up debt.
Late 20s
Impossible. Short to the point and professional. Personal and professional life.
Not by name.
Not a movement (please edit that out)
No reaction necessary. I want the same reaction as if I stated to them that I decided to wear shorts today instead of pants.

zouklord · 2018-07-18T19:23:24+00:00

Hello,

Before I answer the questions, I don't care whether you are a male, female or Apache assault helicopter, but as a Politics / Sociology graduate I have to say that the way you worded your post has loaded it towards negative connotations. Mgtow's tend to be logical and rational, so that emotionally evocative slant won't go down well with a lot of the community. But since you are asking from a position of interest rather than conflict, I am happy to give my pennies worth.

Long answer incoming.

1.) No resentment at all.

People that take to MGTOW from personal injury resulting from a blue-pilled life may have some red-pill rage, but from the mgtows I am in contact with this fades quite quickly. The overwhelming majority seem to be too logical or inwardly focused to hold on to any personal resentment.

I actually noticed quite a few mgtows are wealthy individuals that approach relationships from a cost/benefit approach. Far from being resentful, they just simply don't see a good return on investment.

Don't let the vent posts give the wrong impression, this is one of the rare male only spaces where guys can vent without being judged or told they are wrong, so there are a lot of vent posts, but mostly from guys that are only just going their own way. If someone attacks, insults, hurts, or damages you/your life, you are going to be angry, its natural and a right reaction to have. Power to them.

Also, the sense of humour here pokes fun at irrationality, logical fallacies, or pure bigotry, which can be misconstrued as mgtows 'being salty' or hateful if that person cannot see the inconsistency that is the butt of the joke.

2.) Previous life was focused around long term relationships;

Belief that looking after/caring for the girlfriend was the priority, and self-sacrifice for love was a noble action, led towards some quite self-destructive behaviour; both financially and emotionally. Education suffered, finances suffered, physical health suffered, excess stress, little free time, priorities were skewed. These were good relationships too. I am perhaps one of the rare ones that can say I was treated well by every girl I was with, and that the break ups were nearly never because of negativity. But I still went mgtow.

Current life:

Successful at work, increasing the amount of work I can do from home so that the investment I am about to make in post-grad education won't conflict with my current work responsibilities. I am far healthier physically, bloodwork came back excellent, far stronger than ever and pushing towards a 100kg clean and jerk. Could afford to invest in a brilliant apartment, better quality clothes, better quality food, next investment will be a better computer setup, and taking up the sport I was regionally competitive at as a teenager. I have rarely felt this happy, and never this consistently. Stress is almost non-existent; I write short stories in the morning at my favourite coffee shop as a private hobby before work, I drink a glass of wine on my balcony while listening to jazz or zouk music in the evenings after work, and I enjoy my work.

3.) Three months before the end of my last relationship, I started logging how I was spending my time and money quite meticulously. About six months after the end of that relationship I was in a pretty bad place in every sense of the word; stumbled out of the rain and into a starbucks with my computer and decided I needed to change something in my life, so I went through the logs and added things up. I was spending significantly more time and money on my relationship / pursuing a relationship than I did on my career or finances or self-improvement, and the ratio was appalling. But being so wrapped up in it, I couldn't judge it well despite logging it at the time. I couldn't see the forest through the tree's, as it were. Taking that time to put them into total numbers on a page and compare them put things in perspective. So I stopped trying to date, stopped socialising, moved out of my area, and focused on career.

I had lurked on various MGTOW websites/forums for a few years before this as I was writing a 'manifesto of masculinity' for a friend, and the blue-pilled answers seemed pretty unnatural. If you think of masculine men, whether from history or legends, like Ted Roosevelt, Hector, Cato the Elder, The Mountain Men, Eugene Sandow, ect, you don't picture a man that grovels at a womans feet in self-flagellation to make her happy, in fact quite the opposite. You picture men that defy the odds, take the lead, and stay firm to their convictions despite whom they may offend or insult by doing so. And a rabbit hole of research into this led to MGTOW. So, to turn my life around I took the mgtow route, and never looked back.

4.) Twenty-eight, very athletic, and without intending to sound arrogant I am somewhat handsome, and have a good amount intelligence. Just to dispel the incel smear that most anti-mgtow writers try to brand mgtows as.

2018-07-18T14:10:49+00:00

Yawn

re_all · 2018-07-18T14:12:35+00:00

Good sir,

A lot of info seeking there.

I get the feeling that it’s an espionage tactic, but here goes.

1) in my opinion new MGTOW are filled with anger/resentment. It’s often from a fresh wound, and so much of it is out there because it’s the one thing all MGTOW can relate to.

Older MGTOW will grow beyond the negative, and seek enlightenment, and goal fulfillment.

2) personal account = I was married, wanted to commit suicide, and was 45,000 in debt, and as a result, the divorce left me homeless.

Divorced, and in 22 months; out of debt, traveling the world and US, making double than my previous job as a traveling hospital worker, and will be looking for a home soon.

3) Choice; divorce, and damned be the consequences, or lay my neck on a table saw. When suicide seems to be the answer, it’s time to change the scenario.

4) 36

5) 80% avoid interaction beyond necessary (work)

6) absolutely, even to women.

7) knowing it was truth

8) people, men and women, react along the same lines depending on how logical they are.

If they are logical, they know the philosophy of MGTOW has a point. If they are not logical, they resort to the same tactics all opponents of MGTOW use.

Hope that helps

jennaydoesntloveyou · 2018-07-18T15:14:04+00:00

[deleted]

slacktivist0 · 2018-07-20T13:22:04+00:00

I resent the sense of entitlement of most women I encounter.
So much less emotional energy wasted trying to treat them like men. Better to treat them like overgrown children. Dangerous, overgrown children.
Yes.
44.
Yes. Some days I feel more confident setting boundaries and so can tolerate their chit chat.
Not by name.
2 decades of misery thanks to a bulimic psychologist I should have never been kind to. Don't be kind to women. No good deed goes unpunished.
Most old men minimize commitments to women. The incentives have changed completely. It's not possible for a woman to be worth the trouble any longer.

Title	What is MGTOW?
Author	jennaydoesntloveyou
Upvotes	4
Comments	100
Date	July 18, 2018 1:46 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/8zvmxq/what_is_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/what-is-mgtow.523799 https://theredarchive.com/post/523799

Comments

Yawn