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"Clemson opens female-only programs to everyone to end federal investigation". Mark Perry, a professor of economics at the University of Michigan-Flint, had filed a sex discrimination complaint against the public university.

wntk

August 24, 2019
178 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.thecollegefix.com/clemson-opens-female-only-programs-to-everyone-to-end-federal-investigation/
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Title "Clemson opens female-only programs to everyone to end federal investigation". Mark Perry, a professor of economics at the University of Michigan-Flint, had filed a sex discrimination complaint against the public university.
Author

wntk

Upvotes 178
Comments 46
Date August 24, 2019 4:08 PM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cuv9mq/clemson_opens_femaleonly_programs_to_everyone_to/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/clemson-opens-female-only-programs-to-everyone-to.1204618
https://theredarchive.com/post/1204618
Top posts by wntk

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1791 upvotes
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Following a petition, Winchester University cancelled a talk with two men's rights activists in 2019. Here is the text of one of the talks (by William Collins) that were planned. It covers education, suffrage and coverture. It's disappointing that such views can't be expressed in such a forum.

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95% of strip searches of children reported in England & Wales are of boys. This may or may not be an issue but I found it interesting that it was considered unfair that black children were more likely to be strip-searched but this huge gender disparity was barely mentioned in lots of media coverage.

829 upvotes
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Comments

[–]gnulligan 45 points46 points47 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO COMPLAIN

COMPLAINING WORKS

WHY DO YOU THINK FEMINISTS COMPLAIN 24/7/365 ????

[–]tenchineuro 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

COMPLAINING WORKS

Up til now, it has not worked. Schools would just deny Title IX complaints by men or call them unfounded. Seriously.

[–]gnulligan 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes I'm aware. But that's because complaints were much less common.

If a student complains once, it's easy to dismiss.

However, if a student complains every year, then it becomes a liability. The college has to start hoping those students never meet each other and pursue legal action.

So I think we agree. My point is, everyone has to do their part. Every complaint helps.

[–]tenchineuro 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So I think we agree. My point is, everyone has to do their part. Every complaint helps.

I certainly can't disagree with that.

[–]Halafax 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Complaining to the institution doing it does nothing. You have to drag them to a different forum, at a minimum. They don’t care about your issue, the care about third party acknowledgement of their policy.

[–]gnulligan 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, so if they don't listen, do that.

My point is don't take it and do nothing.

[–]no1tell 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly, Men need to demand entrance to women only events and goodies such as ladies nights, stem programs, girls fire schools etc. File a complaint if denied.

[–]ProveSolution 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i remember there was a women only event where they taught girls how to kick boys in the balls.

it was disgustingly unjust.

to make a sexist event on how to harm the other sex.

​

and i do remember this. i got you filed, feminism. consider yourself dead.

[–]SoundOfDrums 19 points20 points21 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Wait, so no investigation because they stopped breaking the law? Fucking punish them. What the fuck is this shit?

[–]thinkdeep 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree, but I am happy they didn't waste taxpayers or students money on taking this to court.

[–]SoundOfDrums 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you take it to court, make them acknowledge that women only groups are sexist legally, that's some on the books good shit.

[–]tenchineuro 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Perry showed The Fix a letter from OCR that informed him that it had closed the investigation. OCR said it had verified that Clemson had changed its programs to put them in compliance with Title IX regulations on gender discrimination.

In the letter, OCR said that Clemson had actually been working toward compliance with the three programs prior to being notified of the OCR investigation. The school told OCR that it sought to be compliant as soon as possible.

Why do I trouble believing this?

Perry speculated that the reason Clemson was already working toward compliance was due to his complaint with the school’s own Title IX office prior to filing the complaint with OCR.

I suspect it was just window dressing to make it look like they were doing something, when in fact they had no intention of following through. YMMV.

One of the comments...

  • Prof. Perry is to be commended. However, it remains to be seen whether Clemson will be truly welcoming to boys in these programs, or will simply replace "de jure" discrimination against them with "de facto", e.g. by advertising the program with pink-colored flyers and photos of only girls holding test tubes etc., to make them appear too "girly" for boys to be interested. (Meanwhile, administrators of the same mindset decry how the "macho" culture in STEM is off-putting to women and girls.)
  • Unfortunately, Prof. Perry's victory isn't going to magically make the program organizers' barely-concealed contempt for boys and men go away.

[–]Arthuyo 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

While I don't disagree, you have to start somewhere.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

While I don't disagree, you have to start somewhere.

In so many of these cases the colleges simply ignore court orders. They've gotten away with it so far. I don't see any reason why they would have issues lying about things.

That is, let's be sure this is actually a start before doing the victory dance.

[–][deleted] 6 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

sources

Much of this is stuff I've read over the past 30-40 years.

But colleges ignoring court orders is a current event. Here's an example.

https://www.thecollegefix.com/michigan-state-apparently-ignored-2018-federal-court-ruling-on-due-process-until-student-sued/

[–][deleted] 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You said colleges (plural).

I also said "an". As in, "Here's an example."

Be precise with your language or you make us look like mgtow.

What is your problem.

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

that s the tone police.

[–][deleted] 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m tired of the level of discourse that happens on Reddit.

Then find a a better venue.

There is more hyperbole than not.

Whatever.

[–]headingtoshore 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Prof. Perry is to be commended. However, it remains to be seen whether Clemson will be truly welcoming to boys in these programs, or will simply replace "de jure" discrimination against them with "de facto", e.g. by advertising the program with pink-colored flyers and photos of only girls holding test tubes etc., to make them appear too "girly" for boys to be interested. (Meanwhile, administrators of the same mindset decry how the "macho" culture in STEM is off-putting to women and girls.)

The thing about this form of "discrimination" is that it has no effect, no young man will think science is uninteresting because there are pictures of girls on a brochure. As it says

(Meanwhile, administrators of the same mindset decry how the "macho" culture in STEM is off-putting to women and girls.)

But that has never been proven, there is no reason to suppose girls avoid STEM because they think it's too macho.

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The thing about this form of "discrimination" is that it has no effect, no young man will think science is uninteresting because there are pictures of girls on a brochure.

I recall find an internal website at a large company I used to work for where they were bragging about increasing diversity by only posting job notices in places where their target group congregated. That way, even if the hiring process were to be fair (and it was not fair at all) the candidate pool is only from the selected demographic.

So I suggest there's a lot more going on than just what the commenter mentioned.

Here's one of the ways this kind of thing works on campus.

  • California university works to reduce number of white people on campus

  • https://www.thecollegefix.com/california-university-combats-issue-of-too-many-white-people-on-campus/

  • Cal Poly San Luis Obispo works on massive diversity and inclusion effort

  • In keeping with the diversity and inclusion movement sweeping campuses across the country, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo recently released a 30-page report outlining plans to β€œimprove diversity” via a series of initiatives.

  • One goal is to increase the number of people of color on campus beyond the increases that have already occurred over the past few years, as β€œapplications from underrepresented minority students doubled between 2008 and 2018.”

  • β€œIn 2011, the campus was 63 percent Caucasian,” the May 2 report informs readers, β€œin fall of 2017, it was less than 55 percent … but there is still much work to do.”

[–]headingtoshore 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

There are many ways to game the rules, but each has to be evaluated on it's own merits.

What you post above reminds me of the recent story about facebook, where they would allow advertisers to have their postings only shown to certain demographics. In that case they were showing rental listings to white people only, and similar things which did explicitly constitute violations of law.

Would posting help wanted ads exclusively in places where only women congregate, like say, women's bathrooms, be a violation of law? Maybe. It would be a matter for the courts to decide.

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There are many ways to game the rules, but each has to be evaluated on it's own merits.

So it's OK to discriminate if you successfully game the rules?

[–]headingtoshore 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats kind of what 'rules' means.

[–]ProveSolution 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

it would be unjust, but it would be legal.

[–]ProveSolution 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

the way i was brought up, i went very asexual to university. i would not have cared if chemistry would have been advertised for being female or male oriented.

i went there for other reasons.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

the way i was brought up, i went very asexual to university.

I don't understand what you are saying.

i would not have cared if chemistry would have been advertised for being female or male oriented.

And again.

i went there for other reasons.

You went to Clemson?

[–]ProveSolution 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah... Man...

I was brought up in Austria by a feminist mother. She made me fear my own manlyness. Thus I was more like: women; meh, whatever.

Chemistry was my most important thing for me. I lived for it back in the day. And any ads for women and against men... I would have been like... Meh, do what? I dont care!

[–]Liensis09 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"macho" culture in STEM

As someone that could be seen as a stereotypical nerd, I can't see STEM areas as macho, even with quotes.

It's normally seem to attract the more "flimsy" man, nerdy guys.

[–]RT-AC66U 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The Is should make the feminists very happy.

[–]headingtoshore 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i expect the general consensus among them will be 'These dude bros and their abuse of the courts is why we can't have nice things'

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you know of programs at your school that discriminate based on sex then report them!

  • Write to someone like this Prof. Mark Perry (easy to find his email address online) and tell him about the program and ask for his support.
  • File a complaint with your university's Title IX office. (Typically it can be done anonymously and/or confidentially.)
  • File a whistleblower complaint about the discriminatory program. (Typically it can be done anonymously and/or confidentially.)

​

Let's get off our asses and help change this bullshit!

[–]JoeSchmoe777 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The feminists should be so pleased that equality is finally being applied here.

[–]jeff_the_nurse 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Awesome!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Can students who were denied access to those programs now sue?

[–]ProveSolution 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

they should, actually....

[–]FaerilyRowanwind 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good

[–]azazelcrowley 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Woop woop!

[–]MissSally2010 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Haaaa haaaaa

[–]ausgamer529 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And it's Sweet... Sweet Victory

[–][deleted] 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]WikiTextBot -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Manspreading

Manspreading or man-sitting is the practice of men sitting in public transport with legs wide apart, thereby covering more than one seat. Both this posture and the use of the neologism "manspreading" have occasioned some internet criticism and debates in the US, UK, Turkey, and Canada. The public debate began when an anti-manspreading campaign started on the social media website Tumblr in 2013; the term appeared a year later. OxfordDictionaries.com added the word "manspreading" in August 2015.


[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source ] Downvote to remove | v0.28

[–]darkelfbear 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was born and Raised in and around Flint and Detroit. I get back to Flint, I'm finding this guy and buying him a beer.

[–]RacelessSexlessName 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Takes a man to get some actual equality around here... Where's the feminists on these inequality issues? Oh, right, they think this is an inequity and their trumped up "male privilege" bs justifies the sexist practices that violate Title IX...

/s on the first line, if you can't tell it's a joke... Some peoples intarwebs and tubes... πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

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