Don’t sweat the small stuff

iainmf · 2022-05-03T03:27:46+00:00

Anyway, I reckon we need to be working together with feminism to create equality. We should support our sisters and mothers in things like rape, sexual assault, and other things like helping out around the house and with the kids.

You are conflating women and feminism. Of course we support equal rights for women. Supporting feminism is a different thing altogether.

We can't work with feminists, because they don't want to work with us. For example, my post about feminist saying that they have to control the narrative. They can't let men determine masculinity, or even meet together without feminist supervision.

Temporary_Spend_3111 · 2022-05-03T04:15:13+00:00

Women have reproductive rights. Men have reproductive responsibilities only.

If a woman gets raped or reproductivly coerced by a man. She has

Biological options :

morning after pill
abortion pill
surgical abortion

Societal options :

claiming not to know who the father is and giving the child to a family member or putting it up for adoption
safe haven laws
laws that keep rapist fathers from getting custody rights

Let's look at the options a man has in the same situation :

forced labor to pay 5-7 years income to his rapist over 18-21 years
refusing to work (or simply losing his job through no fault of his own) and going to jail repeatedly for contempt of court and losing his drivers license/library card/passport
fleeing the US forever and only entering countries that do not enforce international child support or extradite for contempt of court
ending his life on his own terms

Why not give men the equivalent outs as women's societal outs ... other than sexism? I don't know, but a man's choice not to have sex is irrelevant as far as the courts are concerned.

After Hermesmann v Seyer set the precedent, courts around the country have decided that male victims of women owe the perpetrators child support for decades, while other precedents (Roe v Wade) and laws (safe haven laws) generally allow female victims many options to get rid of the product of their rapes.

Hermesmann successfully argued that a woman is entitled to sue the father of her child for child support even if conception occurred as a result of a criminal act committed by the woman.

E.g.

Alabama man - https://law.justia.com/cases/alabama/court-of-appeals-civil/1996/2950025-0.html

Arizona boy - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/

California boy - https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1996-12-22-9612220045-story.html

Others in this paper "Victims with responsibilities" -https://lawpublications.barry.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=cflj

There are many others out there. I do not believe there has yet been a single case where a boy or man has gotten out of paying child support to an adult woman that statutory raped, raped, sperm jacked, etc.

The good news is that in recent years feminist lobbiests have pushed for laws to prevent rapists from getting child custody. Without custody the child wouldn't be raised by a rapist and the victim wouldn't owe child support. So the day that a male doesn't owe his perpetrator may be coming soon. The less good news is that just over half the states that passed these laws passed them as the feminist lobbiests proposed them - only preventing rapist fathers from getting custody. (https://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/parental-rights-and-sexual-assault.aspx)

Terrell v Torres recently set a precedent and invalidated a signed contract to let a woman use embryos created with her ex and have him owe child support.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2019/03/18/arizona-court-ruling-use-preserved-embryos-without-ex-husbands-consent-ruby-torres/3205867002/

Courts have ruled the same way in Illinois and the US supreme court agreed.

http://www.fathers4equality-australia.org/fathers-rights/woman-wins-custody-of-embryos-after-separation/

Courts have ruled the same way in a very similar situation in Italy.

https://www.ansa.it/canale_saluteebenessere/notizie/lei_lui/vita_di_coppia/2021/02/25/si-allimpianto-dellembrione-dellex-marito-anche-se-lui-dice-no_05230156-95ea-406a-aa7e-4e90cf2d7c93.html

Courts ruled the same way in yet another similar case in Israel.

https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%A9%D7%AA_%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%99

In several other cases women who forged her ex's signature to implant have been awarded child support from the unwilling father. E.G. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5687477/Ex-husband-ordered-pay-child-support-former-wife-forged-signature-undergo-IVF.html

Reproductive coersion of men is also an issue that would be drastically reduced with financial abortion.

approximately 10.4% (or an estimated 11.7 million) of men in the United States reported ever having an intimate partner who tried to get pregnant when they did not want to or tried to stop them from using birth control

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_coercion

American talk shows for women encourage women to stop birth control without telling their partner with the applause of their audiences.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5CNHwhHWPoQ

What about IVF with sperm taken from a condom without the man's consent?

https://www.mommyish.com/woman-steals-ex-boyfriends-sperm-has-twins-sues-for-child-support-836/

How about when they only engage in oral sex which should have no pregnancy risk?

https://rollingout.com/2014/02/04/woman-uses-sperm-oral-sex-get-pregnant-force-man-pay-child-support/

How about court orders mandating men give their wife sperm so they can impregnate themselves during divorce proceedings?

https://theprint.in/judiciary/court-orders-man-to-donate-sperm-to-estranged-wife-who-says-no-time-for-2nd-marriage/255215/

Financial abortion would solve all the financial issues for victimized males and remove financial incentives for women to do these things, but many pro-choice folks immediately start making pro-life talking points that if he didn't want a kid he should have used a condom or kept it in his pants.

Financial abortion is about bodily autonomy. No out for child support forces a man to spend years of his life working to pay for a child he does not want. If he loses his job and is unable to pay, he will be locked in a cage.

1 in 8 men in South Carolina jails are there for failure to pay child support. They are not given court appointed lawyers until they are $10k behind and most are arrested and lose their job way before that limit making it extremely difficult to pay.

Src: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/20/us/skip-child-support-go-to-jail-lose-job-repeat.html

In the US,

66 percent of all child support not paid by fathers is due to an inability to come up with the money

Src: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-myth-of-the-deadbeat-_b_4745118

Mothers owing child support are more likely to not pay fathers than visa versa, but women are rarely jailed for it.

we found that 32 percent of custodial fathers didn't receive any of the child support that had been awarded to them compared to 25 percent of custodial moms

Src: https://www.npr.org/2015/03/01/389945311/who-fails-to-pay-child-support-moms-at-a-higher-rate-than-dads

EmirikolWoker · 2022-05-03T06:07:35+00:00

Anyway, I reckon we need to be working together with feminism to create equality.

Here we go again.

The foundational principles of all flavours of feminism (class warfare between men and women with men winning, shorthanded as "Patriarchy") are inherrently anti-male when you examine what needs to be true for it to accurately describe reality. Feminists can claim that it's "just about equality", but it's equality based on bigotted assumptions, presuming psychopathy on the part of men as a class.

Mens rights advocacy, and Egalitarian values in general, are innately anti-feminist.

Usernamestruggle5 · 2022-05-03T03:20:30+00:00

Social media platforms aren't exactly known for bringing about sustained, constructive action in the real world.

People don't come here to complain instead of taking action that leads to tangible change. They come here to complain because they feel powerless. They literally don't know how to make the changes happen that you're talking about.

They should help us close the prison gap, get rid of conscription, and help with child support stuff

You could add the growing education gap too. Homelessness. Suicide.

But how does change actually happen? I'm not trying to be cynical or bitter. I really want to know.

Subsets of feminists have been saying that they're helping, or will help, men for generations now, but most of what we seem to hear about is internal "fix yourself" diagnoses and solutions about masculinity.

And this isn't to blame feminists either. The vast majority of men are doing less than nothing. They're not even complaining.

BTW, conscription is not going away, but actually more likely to make a comeback over the next few decades, so the only way to even that out is to make sure more countries have gender neutral drafts.

wumbo-inator · 2022-05-03T05:59:02+00:00

No. We should not work with feminism for gender equality since feminism is inherently against gender equality and rather wants to privilege women at the expense of men.

Men cannot have gender equality as long as feminism exists, because the movement ideologically requires you to ignore men’s issues and female privilege/power so you can believe that women are oppressed by men. They will never stop believing that men created sexism for their own benefit at the expense of women. So they will never stop believing that women also create it, and that men suffer just as much.

mikesteane · 2022-05-03T08:10:31+00:00

Feminism depends on the assumption/lie that equality means levelling up for women. To promote this idea, it is necessary to re-write history to make it look like women were historically oppressed and denigrate current men.

Feminism, like all ideologies, is dangerous to the core. See EmirikolWoker's comment below.

_Xuixien_ · 2022-05-03T13:42:51+00:00

I tried engaging with feminists in good faith for years. All they ever did was try the wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing, feigning empathy and the whole “feminism is for men” nonsense.

maxlvb · 2022-05-03T03:53:06+00:00

Every day, some white knighting feminist comes here to try to tell us how we must behave...

Once again for the Op's benefit:

If you get offended by MRA's here in this sub talking about all that is wrong with feminism and women, then you are part of the problem that makes such talk necessary...

Feminists, women, and their white knight defenders need to stop holding men to standards they're personally and collectively unwilling to meet.

I am still trying to get feminists to define feminism for me without using sexist anti-male stereotypes.

Temporary_Spend_3111 · 2022-05-03T04:14:44+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/hzyy86/an_older_post_about_rape/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Temporary_Spend_3111 · 2022-05-03T04:15:25+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9v6tqj/a_list_about_feminism_misandry_for_anyone_who/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Great-Flan-5896 · 2022-05-03T15:10:59+00:00

Downplaying concern troll.

tenchineuro · 2022-05-03T18:33:18+00:00

Some people here also cross the line into women hating, maybe some of you struggle to get laid and blame all the women in your life for this problem?

Anyway, I reckon we need to be working together with feminism to create equality.

Found the feminist.

tenchineuro · 2022-05-03T19:04:56+00:00

Some comments by the OP...

The reason they dont take us seriously is because people are on here being dicks about women, people are whinging that no girls find them attractive etc.
You’re literally the reason mens rights doesn’t get any success, so go fuck yourself you desperate fuck
This is a US problem, this shit doesn’t happen in other places to the same degree. You’re in a dumpster fire country.
So a women might rape you and you get pregnant. But also like WEAR A FUCKING CONDOM omg. Like if you don’t want a kid, dont have sex without a condom.
You sound like a paranoid puppy, you shouldn’t be around any women. I worry you might snap and do something cray if you’re constantly convinced every lady in your life is going to date rape you to steal your sperm. Maybe the drinking water is full of crazy shit in the US.
So far all I see on this sub are people who are sitting in their moms basements holding their cocks and crying about how hard it is to be a man. Just like the feminist sun is just a group of saggy tit women trying to blame men for why they’re overweight and no one wants to fuck them.

Standard feminist dogma.

Is this the voice that will lead the MRM to a better future? I doubt it.

Temporary_Spend_3111 · 2022-05-03T04:17:52+00:00

These are some of the big stuff. Do i hate women, no absolutely not. Am i misogynist? Also no i believe in equality of opportunity and would defend those civil rights for both. If a unequal misandarist law and or misogynistic law was passed and i found i disagreed with it. Id write down my thoughts rewrite them down discuss them in differing communities to avoid an echo chamber. And if i still feel the way i do i will protest peacefully. The way i believe is right.

I am more then willing to peacefully discuss and i will remain open minded of your talking points.

PyromaniacStoner · 2022-05-03T05:00:14+00:00

Sometimes i feel like r/mensrights is basically just the male version of feminism

there are some men on this subreddit who seem to genuinely blame women for everything and get pissed off easily when someone else even slightly shows support for women just like the male equivalent of a radical feminist would, but there are also some smarter people who make solid points and good arguments and these are the people that i have respect for and i usually agree with

Legitimate-Scar-6572 · 2022-05-03T03:01:28+00:00

I want to drop a fat award on this but I'm willing to bet it's going to be removed within the hour. Cheers to getting it and living cohesively. That is, after all the goal.

FatFingerHelperBot · 2022-05-03T04:15:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

amaculaterc · 2022-05-03T23:14:46+00:00

I agree with OP

Title	Don’t sweat the small stuff
Author	Usernamestruggle5
Upvotes	0
Comments	91
Date	May 3, 2022 2:27 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/uh6209/dont_sweat_the_small_stuff/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dont-sweat-the-small-stuff.1213474 https://theredarchive.com/post/1213474

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