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Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

MichaelRahmani

February 16, 2018
58 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/google-firing-of-damore-was-legal-u-s-labor-panel-lawyer-said
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Post Information
Title Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge
Author

MichaelRahmani

Upvotes 58
Comments 26
Date February 16, 2018 10:15 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7y2e3e/fired_google_engineer_loses_diversity_memo/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/fired-google-engineer-loses-diversity-memo.905831
https://theredarchive.com/post/905831
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Comments

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Noticeably absent: quote of supposedly discriminatory statement.

20th century media is entertainment not truth seeking.

[–]sweet-pie-of-mine 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the 21st century....

[–]Filter201 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/federal-labor-board-google-was-justified-in-firing-engineer-behind-gender-memo/

Here's the two discriminatory parts:

"Damore pointed higher neuroticism among women as a possible explanation for gender gap at a google."

and

"men demonstrate greater variance in IQ than women."

I can't find the second one anywhere in his demo. He does quickly touch on the topic of IQ though. Maybe that statement was made in another document/email.

IMO this exculpate google. They are already being sued for sexual discrimination. And the law has a completely fucked interpretation of reality. Not firing James Damore would have caused google to be actually in trouble for sexual discrimination and sexual harassment.

What that means is that MRAs need to get smarter and more paranoid if they want to do activism in the workplace. There are statements that on the face of it sound completely innocuous but that in reality are illegal. We need to know what they are, and we need to talk around them.

[–]AnotherDAM 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

So call me naive but what is discriminatory about scientifically valid truths?

Damore pointed higher neuroticism among women as a possible explanation for gender gap at a google.

Does the psychological fact that women demonstrate higher neuroticism than men not possibly explain the gender gap at google?

men demonstrate greater variance in IQ than women.

Maybe your reading comprehension is blurred by your need to be ideological? I don't know - but this is a well demonstrated fact. There are more men 3 standard deviations from the norm than women IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. How, exactly, is that fact discriminatory?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It feels wrong.

[–]AnotherDAM 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No shit :)

I for one am writing my congress critters and the President demanding to know why such a scientifically ill-informed woman is in a position of such power.

[–]WikiTextBot 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Neuroticism

Neuroticism is one of the Big Five higher-order personality traits in the study of psychology. Individuals who score high on neuroticism are more likely than average to be moody and to experience such feelings as anxiety, worry, fear, anger, frustration, envy, jealousy, guilt, depressed mood, and loneliness. People who are neurotic respond worse to stressors and are more likely to interpret ordinary situations as threatening and minor frustrations as hopelessly difficult. They are often self-conscious and shy, and they may have trouble controlling urges and delaying gratification.


[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source | Donate ] Downvote to remove | v0.28

[–]PepperTe 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Does the psychological fact that women demonstrate higher neuroticism than men not possibly explain the gender gap at google?

Pointing out facts is not a defense in the new way of doing things. Even work relevant facts like pointing out how insecure someone's security idea is can get a bonus cut for not being a team player.

[–]AnotherDAM 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ha, nail meet hammer. Well spoken!

[–]Edralis 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

how is mentioning these scientifically well-established opinions (I'm not going to say "facts" bc honestly I don't know anymore what is a fact) in any way or form discriminatory?

[–]PepperTe 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because it is. Discrimination isn't a 4 letter word. We have begun to treat it as always bad, when it is almost always good. Only in a few cases, like discriminating upon false stereotypes based on race/sex is it bad. But we are now living in a world where any discrimination is seen as wrong, if it hurts certain groups (if it only hurts men, discriminate away).

[–]foot_kisser 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

To be clear, the title of this post is wrong. He didn't lose his lawsuit against Google, rather the NLRB released a memo sent in January, which came to the bizarre conclusion that Damore's memo contained discriminatory statements. In response to the memo, Damore dismissed his complaint with the NLRB.

Here's a link to the NLRB case. There's a link to the memo on that page, and it's really bizarre. In it, they compare Damore's statements to a time when an employee randomly accused her boss of being in the KKK, a boss who made sexually abusive remarks to an employee, and a case where an employee distributed a newsletter suggesting that another employee "come out of the closet". When discussing the scientific papers Damore's memo referenced, they put the word "scientific" in scare quotes.

If the Jayme L. Sophir idiot who wrote the NLRB memo is representative of the NLRB, Damore's decision to focus on the lawsuit is probably the right one.

[–]PepperTe 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If the Jayme L. Sophir idiot who wrote the NLRB memo is representative of the NLRB, Damore's decision to focus on the lawsuit is probably the right one.

Men need to realize that feminist aren't just capturing companies, they are capturing the government. This will end very badly for men if we don't prepare.

[–]splash_down 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

By capturing I think you mean captured, already. Just imagine how bad it'd have got under Clinton.

[–]catratdog 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This is David vs Goliath. I can't help but think he will lose simply because he lacks several billion dollars. Or the fucking lawyers will draw it out for years if not decades. Am I wrong?

[–]BigLebowskiBot 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're not wrong, Walter, you're just an asshole.

[–]catratdog 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck you bot. Like most people I enjoyed the Big Lebowski, but I don't want fucking robots trying to simulate wit.

[–]DirtAndGrass 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I still don't understand, no one has actually indicated what is hurtful or discriminatory about the memo, just that "it is" or "why question it, are you a misogynist?"

Edit: I actually recall one argument: about how males and females were the same, but I don't understand how there could be discrimination if they are the same?

[–]foot_kisser 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

From the NLRB memo: "The Charging Party’s use of stereotypes based on purported biological differences between women and men should not be treated differently than the types of conduct the Board found unprotected in these cases. [Damore's] statements about immutable traits linked to sex—such as women’s heightened neuroticism and men’s prevalence at the top of the IQ distribution—were discriminatory and constituted sexual harassment, notwithstanding [his] effort to cloak [his] comments with “scientific” references and analysis, and notwithstanding [his] “not all women” disclaimers."

I put a link to the memo in a top level post, if you want to read the whole thing. Names are redacted in the NLRB memo, but I put back in what I think they said in brackets, since we know that James Damore wrote James Damore's memo.

So at least according to the idiot Jayme L. Sophir at the NLRB, discussion of immutable traits linked to sex, even in the context of trying to figure out how to effectively promote diversity, is discriminatory sexual harassment. I'm not sure if this will clear up your confusion or make it worse, but there it is.

[–]Edralis 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I honestly... how...??? is any of that discriminatory or sexual harrassment?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It isn't but the policy masters disagree and they hold the power.

[–]allthewayup0000 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A sad day for men’s rights, but nothing we haven’t come to expect.

Poor guy would have been promoted to partner had he been a small business owner, a plumber, a construction worker, or an electrician.

But in a high income field like software engineering, wealth redistribution - errr, I mean diversity - is much more important to feminists and their orbiters.

[–]aussietoads 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's pretty obvious that the labour department is just another feminist infected organization.

[–]OnTheSlope 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"In the course of protesting working conditions you can be profane and aggressive and unpleasant, you can be militant, and it’s still protected," Gould said. However, he said, "What separates this is its derisiveness and stereotypical characterization of one gender."

So you can be as much of an asshole as you want, you just can't acknowledge sexual dimorphism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What about the California law?

[–]Singulaire 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

More correctly- NLRB lawyer wrote a memo that recommended dismissing the challenge, but the challenge was withdrawn well before it came before an actual board.

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