Hello everyone, feminist here. Checking out the subreddit after a few years.

Lethn · 2019-06-14T15:23:27+00:00

The people I talked to ranged from hard core misogynists, to anti-feminists

Define misogyny and anti-feminism because when I've interrogated most feminists about what they regard as 'misogyny' at the very least it turns out they are completely full of shit and really just need to grow a spine and can't take criticism.

Alternatively feminists very often equate any criticism of their movement and of feminists in general as an attack on women which is complete bullshit, feminists don't 'own' women or the gender itself.

the movement blamed feminists for mens' problems which, in my opinion, demonstrated a gross misunderstanding of the issues they cared about, and prevented the movement from doing any meaningful advocacy and making change.

When an ideology actively tries to take away men's rights and blockade at every turn then yes they are responsible for a lot of men's problems. Adding to this, more and more lately I think that feminism is responsible for a lot of problems young women face as well.

I love feminists like you come here with a bunch of extremely loaded assertions of misogyny and pretend you're here for a conversation when you've clearly already made your mind up about us all. It's also not just MRAs that are here there are plenty of other people that have been treated poorly by your ideology and refuse to go along with it anymore.

Oh and yes, that includes women, gays and transexuals, at this rate MRAs are going to have more diversity than feminists could ever hope for when it is primarily rich white women with too much time on their hands who call themselves feminists seriously and sex starved male feminists hovering around them hoping for a pat on the head.

Have you ever thought that if you want to have a conversation you maybe shouldn't make assertions about people you clearly have no idea about?

kgil135 · 2019-06-14T15:26:22+00:00

Oh wow. Check out this girls post history. It's a non-stop barrage of hate. Almost every post. Stay away from this one guys.

in_the__trees · 2019-06-14T15:18:25+00:00

It's been difficult getting people to take us seriously, so now we've started to die our hair pink to see if that works.

Evildl17 · 2019-06-14T15:40:45+00:00

Look. There are plenty of feminists out there that are good for the MRM, but you're wondering why we are combative, I'll explain it like this: we aren't the ones going to your rallies and protesting. We aren't the ones positioning non-feminism as anti-equality. We aren't the ones kicking people out of the club for raising points of where the opposite gender might be at a disadvantage. It's hard to claim feminism by and large positions itself at odds with us. If you had a friend who kept invalidating your feelings with ad hominem, you probably wouldn't stay friends with them.

As for if it has changed, yeah, it seems it. We are less reliant on provocation for attention. But bigger movements mean more idiots. We do try to call out the bad stuff but it is tiring. But, just as I'm sure you wouldn't Feminism to be defined by the people pulling fire alarms to shut down our conversations, I would say try to be hesitant trying to define us by them.

GingerRazz · 2019-06-14T15:36:20+00:00

Honestly, the more important question is if you've changed. I've been involved in this movement for 6 or 7 years and have done much to help spread awareness as well as help men in need. I've spent literally hundreds of hours talking suffering men out of suicide in the time period where you feel our focus was hating women and feminism.

In the period you looked into the movement, you started with the most biased source possible and then came here with the well poisoned and unsurprisingly, confirmation bias made you believe that opinion was correct.

If you want to talk with us about specific things or even PM me as to not get dog piled, we'll be receptive. The problem is, this post more or less just makes generic historical accusations against us and leads off with referencing a person proven to twist information as hard as he can to smear us.

Then you ask if we've changed. Let me ask you a question, what specifically do you think we need to change for you to approve of us. Please do so without feminist jargon or at least define your feminist jargon in layman's terms.

Don't get me wrong, I don't actually need approval, but I want to give you benefit of the doubt and assume you're acting in good faith from a position of extreme bias and misinformation. Maybe we can have a productive conversation.

Wotwarrior · 2019-06-14T15:46:39+00:00

anti-feminists that seemed to care more about bashing feminists

Hmmm, what other movement do I know of that typically attacks the other gender, and doesn't try to solve the issue itself...

bufedad · 2019-06-14T15:49:12+00:00

I did some more exploring, talked with some people on-line and read this subreddit occasionally and came to the conclusion that although the MRM made some salient points regarding mens' rights (or lack thereof), the movement blamed feminists for mens' problems which, in my opinion, demonstrated a gross misunderstanding of the issues they cared about

Oh Cool. We misunderstand that the largest feminist organization in the world (National Organization for Women) has been fighting for decades to prevent fathers from having equal parenting rights?

I think you mean correctly attribute problems created or maintained by feminists to the feminists creating or maintaining those problems.

N19864 · 2019-06-14T16:04:50+00:00

You do know feminist attacked men's rights since inception. Look at Warren Farrell for an example. Feminism is against men's rights and many MRA's are against feminism.

The divide between genders is increasing. General distrust is on the increase. Youth Crime rate is on the increase. Medication on the increase. Genders on the increase? MGTOW is growing. Suicide in youth increasing. Single mother household are increasing. Ageing population. Tax burden on the increase. Social Welfare programs and institutions are over-burdened. Family structure is breaking. Pay check to pay check living is on the increase. Male youth checking out. Homelessness increasing. Happiness is dwindling while hopelessness is on the up turn.

We've had a few victories, but more losses in my opinion. Feminist are winning and society is breaking. So things are getting worse and will continue to get worse. I guess that's one way of feminism to die out; when the government can no longer afford to keep it (feminism) propped up.

Q: What kinds of people are attracted to the MRM?

A: People with heart and soul and a sense of justice

Anyhow, thanks for dropping by at "enemy HQ".

Leinadro · 2019-06-14T16:08:52+00:00

I did some more exploring, talked with some people on-line and read this subreddit occasionally and came to the conclusion that although the MRM made some salient points regarding mens' rights (or lack thereof), the movement blamed feminists for mens' problems which, in my opinion, demonstrated a gross misunderstanding of the issues they cared about, and prevented the movement from doing any meaningful advocacy and making change.

The people I talked to ranged from hard core misogynists, to anti-feminists that seemed to care more about bashing feminists than resolving mens' issues, to bitter men hurt by divorce and custody proceedings, every so often there would be someone reasonable that could admit to the failings of the movement but still aligned with it nonetheless because there wasn't any other option.

Unfortunately there is still no better option for MRAs at this point. And while you say you know ManBoobz is not the best information source you seem to make the same kinds of assertions that are made over there and then try to dismiss any questioning of them. So with you being so curious I'd like to ask if you think those assertions still hold.

I'd have a hard time believing that someone walking into a feminist space and asserting that they know the feminist movement is made of bitter man hating women and a few reasonable people would be taken at face value so I wonder why you expect such an assessment of the MRM to be taken at face value here.

Gimpy1405 · 2019-06-14T16:09:45+00:00

Without a question about particular issues and positions, the question is so general as to be hard to answer.

I'm in no way an activist, and mostly keep my opinions to myself so have only a limited overview of MRM as a movement. I can say that maybe my trajectory might represent one at least a few people might find familiar. Until recently, I would have described myself as welcoming to what I'll call old feminism, but the more I learn about anti-male excesses of new feminism, the more I am convinced new feminism is a dangerous, unhealthy turn from what started as a better thing.

So, the best simple answer I can give in the spirit of the OP's question is that my position has become a little less tolerant of what seems to be feminist orthodoxy. I'm more willing to disagree in detail, and less willing to let what I see as wild excesses pass. I'm more ready to call out unbalanced views and overreactions from the feminist camp.

EricAllonde · 2019-06-14T16:53:15+00:00

the movement blamed feminists for mens' problems which, in my opinion, demonstrated a gross misunderstanding of the issues they cared about

We only blame feminists for the things they are actually responsible for, the harms they have really inflicted upon men.

and prevented the movement from doing any meaningful advocacy and making change.

Feminism stands in opposition to all progress on a number of men's issues, thereby making feminism the enemy of men and something we must help to destroy. When that happens, remember: feminism started the war and you'll be responsible for the consequences of it.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2019-06-14T17:39:11+00:00

My first venture into the MRM was by reading ManBoobs. Obviously, it's not best to get your information about a movement from someone who has a bone to pick with said movement. But that's how I heard about it.

That's actually pretty standard. Pretty much every feminist I've spoken to has learned about the MRM from people who hate the MRM, in a misandrist circle jerk.

Which is about like learning of Jewish culture from a Nazi rally.

I did some more exploring, talked with some people on-line and read this subreddit occasionally and came to the conclusion that although the MRM made some salient points regarding mens' rights (or lack thereof), the movement blamed feminists for mens' problems which, in my opinion, demonstrated a gross misunderstanding of the issues they cared about, and prevented the movement from doing any meaningful advocacy and making change.

I think you're seeing what you want.

We blame feminists for the problems they cause. Who else should we blame for Duluth and NOW rabidly opposing shared custody?

And we call out the hypocrisy of feminists for totally ignoring female privileges.

But that's not the same as blaming all problems on feminists.

The people I talked to ranged from hard core misogynists, to anti-feminists that seemed to care more about bashing feminists than resolving mens' issues, to bitter men hurt by divorce and custody proceedings,

What are the odds that someone from a female supremacist movement wouldn't like MRAs?

every so often there would be someone reasonable that could admit to the failings of the movement

And there it is: your definition of reasonable is someone who opposes this movement.

Try menslib, they're a feminist group that doesn't actually like men but wants to pretend they do.

So my question is, it's been several years since I've talked with any MRAs. I'm curious if the movement has changed at all in the past few years

You'll probably still hate it since we still are pro men and not in favor of female supremacy.

maruthescruffydog · 2019-06-14T15:15:52+00:00

A feminist opinion is worthless to me!

Northernrebel56 · 2019-06-14T15:29:17+00:00

Shouldn't you be off dismantling the patriarchy somewhere? Maybe bashing the fash. Don't forget to feed the cats before you go to the pussy hat convention.

Leinadro · 2019-06-14T16:00:53+00:00

My first venture into the MRM was by reading ManBoobs. Obviously, it's not best to get your information about a movement from someone who has a bone to pick with said movement. But that's how I heard about it.

Im just glad you saw the light. Seriously that guy is a waste of internet space.

So my question is, it's been several years since I've talked with any MRAs. I'm curious if the movement has changed at all in the past few years (regardless of what you think of my assessment). If so, how? Do you feel like you're gaining ground? Any victories? More awareness? More activism? What kinds of people are attracted to the MRM?

What I've noticed over the last several years is almost activism by osmosis or something. MRA talking points have been slowly making their way into conversations. However this is being done not because people actually want to talk to and work with MRAs but rather because antiMRAs are trying to co opt said talking points as a way to steal the thunder of the MRM and pretty claim that they were already working on the issue.

So while the movement itself isn't gaining much traction the issues it wants to bring up are gaining traction albeit from attention thieves that literally only care about those issues in hopes of staving off the MRM from gaining real traction.

bkrugby78 · 2019-06-14T16:51:43+00:00

I'm not knee deep in the MRM. I came to this sub first because I thought "what rights do men need lol?" Over time, I've come across some interesting articles that highlight issues where men are in need, mostly dealing with custodial related things.

A lot here blame feminism, which I get I guess, but it seems a losing battle because feminism isn't going away anytime soon. Also, I think there other factors at play, the traditions most men/women cling to even though we are supposed to be more enlightened. Government policies which both promote/oppress multiple groups at any given time (except the super rich).

I don't know what to say really. I've had a mostly good life up to this point. I'm willing to talk with anyone on anything. I think it seems to me, as time passes, eventually the MRM will be seen less as a fringe group and more as something legitimate. It takes time for ideas to be taken seriously.

tenchineuro · 2019-06-14T19:48:21+00:00

So my question is,

Questions are... :-)

it's been several years since I've talked with any MRAs.

Err, true! No, false, you've had replies to this already.

I'm curious if the movement has changed at all in the past few years (regardless of what you think of my assessment).

There isn't really a movement. There are several forums where MRAs discuss things, like here, and a few organizations like AVFM, but that's about it. Anywhere men used to congregate have been forced to integrate by the courts. No school system would allow a men's group to form, much less recognize one's existence. Hell, when men try to have talks about male suicide they get shouted out by Big Red and her cohorts. You feminists have been very effective in preventing men from exercising their first amendment rights.

If so, how? Do you feel like you're gaining ground?

Losing ground every way. You must have been proud when feminists wrote the Duluth model which literally tells police to arrest male DV victims, I mean, how vile can feminism get? The theory is that anytime a woman is violent to a man, she is probably an abuse victim acting out against her abuser, so the police need to arrest her abuser.

Hell, the Southern Poverty Law Center has proclaimed that this sub is a hate group.

Along with the VAWA feminism wrote the Duluth model, which requires police to arrest male DV victims, you must be proud. The theory goes: if a woman is violent to a man she is probably an abuse victim lashing out at her abuser, and the police should arrest her abuser. You probably think this is good stuff, hell, you might have written it yourself, right?

Any victories?

A few small or empty victories. The National Coalition for Men just won a lawsuit and the male-only draft was ruled unconstitutional.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/25/politics/male-only-draft-unconstitutional/index.html
The judge's decision, favoring a group known as National Coalition for Men and two men of registration age, would have no immediate effect. It did not block the government's current policy. Any appeal by the agency would go to the New Orleans-based 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals before it would reach the Supreme Court.

But it's an empty victory, the judge did not issue an injunction to the SS to make the draft constitutional, nothing has to be done, nothing has been done, and nothing will be done. They did not even appeal, why bother?

More awareness?

You'd need to start with some awareness. But the news is stridently anti-male and everything is painted as anti-woman (even air conditioning). You probably agree.

More activism? What kinds of people are attracted to the MRM?

Fat kids, skinny kids, kids who climb on rocks. Tough kids, sissy kids, even kids with chicken pox. No wait, that's Armour hotdogs.

Not long ago a researcher did a study on this group. The prime finding seems to be that on average, mensrights leans slightly to the left.

thanks for your time and have a good weekend.

And you.

user_miki · 2019-06-14T21:13:11+00:00

My opinion is that MRM was infested with feminists and did not made much progress(I thing it is regress) during this decade.

In fact since the MRM took off we men lost more rights than 10 years ago,and that is a fact.

The result you can see it here feminist mockery of MRM movement.They are right, MRM only bark, don't bite.They are too afraid.

It is kept in a tight leash by the hidden feminists inside the movement.Too many egg shells to walk on instead of running.

Every time MRM is accused in the media as misogynists or alt-right, there is wave of concern trolling here ohhhhhhh don't do that ,be careful what you speak, don't upset women, we don't want to be associated with those misogynists. And hiding in fear and lamenting and banning people who speak up against it.

To answer the question it is worse after many years men from MRM are a bunch of pussies afraid of our shadows while every year we loose more and more rights.No spine at all, no wonder feminists despise and hate weak men.

nisutapasion · 2019-06-14T22:33:05+00:00

It looks like you are not paying attention.

DavidByron2 · 2019-06-14T22:36:40+00:00

although the MRM made some salient points

You hated men so you rejected the points anyway.

Any time you start off saying oh yeah there's a bunch of civil rights issues but I hate those people because of how they were born so I discount the otherwise valid arguments, it kinda reflects more on you don't you think? What was really important to you was to find people who would protect your ego:

every so often there would be someone ...admit to the failings of the movement

To put this in words you might understand every now and then we get some reasonable feminist who is able to admit to the failings of the movement but still aligned with it nonetheless. You're not one of them.

RapeMatters2 · 2019-06-14T22:42:34+00:00

Honestly one of our biggest victories is that people now seem to be at least open to the concept of men being raped by women. When I started arguing this was a thing about 6 years ago (when the CDC report came out showing men were raped about as much as women year over year, and raped mostly by women), no one would believe me.

This largely due to the work of key feminist researchers burying men raped by women by either deliberately leaving off the question or even going as far as Mary Koss, feminist researcher, did and classifying it as "within the realm of legal statutes" but that rape should be restricted to "cases where the victim was penetrated by the offender".

But the MRM and I kept agitating, and although recognition of the equality in rape is still slow to come, at least people don't laugh at me and tell me it's impossible near as often anymore.

We've done a lot of good work to raise awareness about this, and it's showing. We still have a lot more to do, but the awareness is coming.

Gaki-San · 2019-06-15T00:17:26+00:00

Nah, I've read about 6-7 pages of your posting history, and all you do is argue. All the time.

You're not here honestly, and your m.o. seems to be attempting to sound above it all, when you're really just as misandrist and judgemental as all the rest. All you need is a bit of prodding, and out come the claws.

Have a nice weekend yourself, but don't waste your time or anyone else's time with this faux olive branch. You're here to pick a fight, and you've put on your best party dress and make up so that you can get in the door.

No fucking thank you.

iainmf · 2019-06-15T01:24:54+00:00

The MRM is gaining ground. It's inevitable that men's issue will become more prominent because a sense of fairness is a deep part of human nature.

I personally have had some success. Most notably, I made a submission to the UN about men's rights in New Zealand for the UPR and New Zealand received its first recommendation about men's human rights.
Unfortunately, progress is slow. Two recent examples that frustrated me were the release of data from the Equal Measures 2030 campaign that which is supposed to help gender activists. No data for boys and men were presented. The other one was the first release from the Human Rights Measurement Initiative which failed to explicitly include men's human rights. Ironically the HGMI states " When something is not measured, it is easily overlooked and undervalued. "

However influential feminists are assaulting and trying to cripple the MRM. Micheal Flood, a professor at Queensland University and advisor to the Australian governments on gender equality, says the men's rights activists are only using the language of equality as a ploy to regain patriarchal power and insists that the only way to help men is to accept intersectional feminist dogma. He even advocates for using strawmen to innoculate people against anti-feminist arguments.
I am curious about your insights into the feminist movement. What would you change about the movement if you could?

skymonstef · 2019-06-15T03:31:09+00:00

Has the mrm changed prolly the biggest change ive seen is due to more supporters more people are diving into statistics and the stats generally do not represent common mantra so its less rhetoric vs rhetoric and more stats against stats now

Also alot more people are calling bullshit when they hear it

TheMeisterAce · 2019-06-14T15:26:41+00:00

Why do you care?

MRA is being derailed by the most vocal of minorities amongst men...just like feminism was dominated by a very vocal minority of women. Where you have militant feminists (read misandry) we have a core of incel males. Men like myself that are married and have daughters find it hard to relate to the movement. We are concerned about the demonizing of men, the criticism of masculinity, and the changing culture of young men and boys. We are not at war with feminism. We are concerned about an ideology that hides behind feminism by wanting to tear men down in an attempt to raise women up. Ideologies that have a facade of equality.

People are not equal, genders are not equal. We all are all complimentary. Genders compliment each other. Feminism has parts of it that are dangerous to the male identity as it tries to change the expectations for men.

Men expressing emotions more is great. Men being profiled as rapists or pedophiles is not. Promoting healthy masculinity is great. Criticizing all masculine behavior is not. Promoting healthy relationships between men and women with defined roles is great. Damaging the culture of committed relationships is not. Women having more opportunities is great. Women having more opportunities at the cost of men’s opportunities is not. Men being viewed as capable and loving parents is good. Men being viewed as substandard parents is not.

Feminism gets a bad reputation because it often deserves a bad reputation. It allowed itself to become some weird monstrosity that devours healthy aspects of society. MRA and MGTOW are following a similar path.

I feel sorry for young men and women these days. Instead of working together for everyone’s benefit we are developing a weird mutually exclusive dynamic between genders.

Title	Hello everyone, feminist here. Checking out the subreddit after a few years.
Author	warsaw2rynQ
Upvotes	0
Comments	190
Date	June 14, 2019 3:14 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/c0l9go/hello_everyone_feminist_here_checking_out_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/hello-everyone-feminist-here-checking-out-the.875577 https://theredarchive.com/post/875577

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