Question: What, exactly, did Aziz Ansari do wrong?

EricAllonde · 2018-04-14T08:02:10+00:00

You're not getting it because you're not thinking from a 100%-female-centric, professional victim point of view. Feminists always think from that point of view, which is why they're so far out on the fringe of so many issues.

Feminists start from some premises that include:

1) Women are entitled to have all of their whims and desires catered to by men, at all times.

2) Any man who fails to comply with 1) is clearly a misogynist and wrong.

3) When it comes to dating, and especially sex, women are helpless victims of the patriarchy and of all men, (who are, of course, monsters and rapists).

4) When it comes to dating and sex, women carry exactly 0% of the responsibility for achieving a mutually rewarding outcome. It is entirely the man's responsibility to deliver 1). Women are entitled to remain completely passive & uncommunicative, and still get exactly what they want at all times.

5) In the context of dating and sex (as well as other contexts including career); feminists believe that women have no agency and thus cannot be expected to verbalise their wishes, much less take action to realise them. Instead, men carry 100% of the responsibility for 1), and they must deduce what the woman's whims and desires actually are without any communication from her, and then deliver them perfectly. If that requires reading her mind, then so be it.

Any man who dates a woman and fails to deliver on any of these points, is clearly a no-good rapist who deserves a nationally-publicised excoriation, such as the one that this proud feminist queen so justifiably blasted Aziz Ansari with.

When you read the account of Ansari's date from this perspective, his many failings become apparent.

She was out on a date with another guy when she saw Ansari and hit on him and gave him her number. You cannot criticise her for this or point that it's, at best, duplicitous and boorish behaviour because women are 0% responsible for what they do in a dating context (See 4).
Ansari failed to read her mind and determine what type of wine she wanted, instead relying on the traditional pairing-with-type-of-food approach (thereby violating 1 and 5).
She gave Ansari a blowjob twice during the date, and he relied on this behaviour to indicate she was into having sex when he should instead have read her mind and realised she wasn't (see 4 and 5).
She didn't tell Ansari that she wanted to stop having sex and leave, but then she is not obligated to (see 3, and 4). He should have known what she wanted anyway (see 5).
Although this woman is a "strong, independent feminist woman", she still can't be expected to verbalise any of her wishes while on a date (see 3 and 4). After all, Ansari is a somewhat famous celebrity, so despite being a small, cuddly, brown feminist guy, he clearly had so much power (aka "privilege") that she was overwhelmed and thus completely unable to say what she wanted. (Rules 1, 3, 4 and 5 still apply, though).
Rule 2 applies to all those points.

My god, that poor woman suffered so badly! The man is a complete monster!

JustOneRandomGirl · 2018-04-14T13:16:42+00:00

Nothing. He did nothing wrong. Of course, we can say he was a bit clumsy(the "clam" move doesn't exactly sound pleasant, does it now?) but he couldn't have guessed out of nowhere that she didn't want to have when she sat on the counter and had him perform oral sex on her. I don't understand, to be honest I'm a bit fed up with this I am too traumatised to speak up and I am a poor victim who can't do anything but whining attitude, I really am. When I didn't want to have sex I have always being very vocal about it, to the point when it happened that I had to get my stuff and leave.

Also I am disturbed by the article, she says he "wants to get her drunk very fast" and then in the same paragraph she says "we stood up before the wine was even over". Decide what's happening here 'cause if someone wants you to get drunk they try to make you drink, they don't leave an half empty bottle on the table. Or maybe I wasn't supposed to understand it, 'cause I've got a vagina and therefore I should be getting offended independently from logical semantics.

I am really annoyed at how women are supposed to be getting traumatised for every little thing, I am annoyed that I am supposed to be too emotional to stand up for my rights or tell what I think.

I am really really fed up with the current narrative, the narrative of the constant victim; I have been dealing all my bloody life with both men and women, I have been getting drunk, had sex and refused to have sex and I wasn't nearly as traumatised as the average girl is nowadays for every little thing.

In conclusion, I have no idea what did Anzari did wrong. He wasn't classy, but that's hardly a crime.

subthrowaway321 · 2018-04-14T18:56:12+00:00

He had the audacity to be a rich celebrity, and want sex with no commitment. Which, e eryone knows women are entitled to a relationship with any man of their choosing... S/

skeptical_caveman · 2018-04-14T13:13:48+00:00

Aziz Ansari learned a brown man is twice as easy to torpedo then a white man.

Nothing against my white brothers.

metoo is literally extortion.

andejoh · 2018-04-14T15:16:58+00:00

He was born with a penis and didn't have it removed, an unforgivable sin in feminism.

CountVonVague · 2018-04-14T22:36:58+00:00

What Aziz did wrong was 1) assume that the woman who gave him her number was interested in hooking up and 2) was waaayyyy to hasty and thirsty during the date. Grace was looking to be courted by a famous celebrity for an evening, not getting rushed into foolycooly, and like most girls this makes all the difference between being Wet and Dry. If Aziz hadn't been jonesen to bust a nut and had just taken more time gauging his date's desires none of this bs would have happened and "Grace" probably would've gushed to her friends about hooking up with a "feminist celebrity" rather than having a "horrible night".

iauiugu · 2018-04-14T07:11:19+00:00

He didn't read her non-verbal clues well enough according to her. It's a dangerous road of expectation to go down.

Last I heard he was never really condemned for it and that it was an awkward hookup that she over inflated during this MeToo movement.

Arby01 · 2018-04-14T13:44:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SmallFlyingPolarBear · 2018-04-14T23:46:16+00:00

He apologized.

boringcarpets · 2018-04-15T09:43:10+00:00

He didn't want her as a gf. That's literally it.

She saw him as low hanging fruit for a celebrity, small and beta in his ways, thought she could get a ticket to celebrity parties and so on, she saw herself in magazines, thought she could con him into dating her so threw herself at him, he wasn't even interested in her in the first place according to her own story, anyway, she sucked his dick, didn't get a contract out of it, threw a tantrum and wrote a revenge story because she's a petty and vindictive child (read: female)

In short Aziz didn't do anything untoward or out of the ordinary

benjwgarner · 2018-04-14T20:16:54+00:00

https://youtu.be/N-Esh4W3dfI?t=0m32s /s

matildamotherfucker · 2018-06-03T21:17:06+00:00

Hi there. This is a month old, but I thought I might reply anyways.

First, it might be a good idea to ask elsewhere, as this is a question women might be able to offer a better answer for considering the subject matter.

The problem is the questioning, confusion, obvious discomfort and pressure many women in Grace's position feel. Some women think that Grace's story is just 'being a straight woman' or 'just what you deal with dating men' - is that how men want women to feel? Not enthusiastic about sex, but... tolerant of it at best because of the sense of obligation and fear that comes with men being extremely tone deaf?

Grace's account doesn't sound happy and eagerly enthusiastic about the sexual situation she was in, as someone should be, as you'd want someone to be if they're getting into bed with you, right? It's confusing. That's what accounts like Grace's say - that there's something wrong with how men respond to non-verbal cues, and something wrong with the fear women feel advocating for themselves.

Edits: some bits and bobs

runninginacyclone · 2018-04-15T10:51:03+00:00

Near as I can make out he failed to be a time traveling mind reader.

Alarming-Force3891 · 2025-07-09T18:55:04+00:00

I think a lot of men who have an opinion on this did not read the babe article and the full account by Grace. They heard from a guy who heard from another guy that it was just a "bad date". The encounter absolutely leaned more into the side of sexual assault. Is Aziz a rapist? no, should his career be over? no, but he is an asshole and I hope he got better through this.

Technical_Warthog · 2018-04-14T08:50:54+00:00

Legally, he did nothing wrong, but I also don't think he's as innocent as he gets painted here in that he just misunderstood verbal cues and they had bad sex.

The dude has a sex move called "the claw". It's worse than it sounds: He inserts two fingers in a V shape into a woman's throat to get them wet, then fingers her. From that alone, you could conclude that he's a sexual deviant of sorts. And he had multiple, massive red flags showing before that.

So here's the condensed version as I remember it:

Grace (22) went to a party with her date, meets Ansari (34) twice, briefly, then at the end of the night he asks for her number.
After a week of texting, they meet and he gives her a dress code. She complies.
She wants red wine, but he gives her white wine. She complies.
She does most of the talking. I guess he's bored becaue he wants to leave.
Her glass was still half full, but he was in a rush to leave. She complies.
Straight back to his apartment. She complies. And compliments his marble countertops. I don't know if that's code for something. I sure as hell complimented my girlfriend's marble countertops a couple of times, if you know what I mean... Yeah, that sounds dirty.
He has her sit on the marvellous countertop, kisses her, instantly reaches for her breasts and instantly undresses her, them himself. She feels uncomfortable, but she complies.
Within 2 minutes of the first kiss, he grabs a condom and she FINALLY says it's going too fast. So he goes into a half-assed foreplay mode for 10 minutes, then starts over.
Cue "THE CLAW". Listen, the missus and me are into BDSM and rough sex. Anybody into BDSM knows how important consent and aftercare are in that practice, especially because one party gives up a lot of control during a session and might be subjected to a bit of... rough housing. It's certainly not something you do on THE FIRST DATE!
Ha asked "Where do you want me to fuck you?" multiple times. He tried making moves multiple times, she backed away, from pulling away her hand from his dick, not moving her lips during kisses to physically crossing the room.
She considers having sex maybe for a second date, so he pours her more wine instead. And literally tells her he's trying to get her drunk enough to fuck her: "Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?"
At this point she FINALLY gets her shit halfway together. Well, instead of leaving, like a rational person, she choses to stay and "chill", expects a soothing back rub when she sits in front of him.
Instead, he instructs her to turn around and blow him. And... She complies.
He brings her to a mirror and wants to fuck her.
She FINALLY gets dressed again. Cue more of THE CLAW and more attempts of getting into her pants with "gross, forceful kisses"
She FINALLY gets up to call a cab, which he does for her instead. And "agressively" kisses her goodbye. And after all of this shit show... She complies.

In summary

I feel bad for the girl.
But then again, she's a pretty 22 years old who stood up her date to get some of that celebrity dick. That dick in turn, being 12 years older with a net worth of 18 million, makes it pretty clear from the start that he's meeting her to fuck her and nothing else. He's a prick. He doesn't talk, he tells her what to wear and he doesn't even let her choose her own drink! Or finish said drink.
He starts off by testing how far he can go by giving her orders. And she complies until she's sitting there, naked on a glorious marble countertop within 10 minutes of setting foot in his apartment.

This whole thing is so mind boggling to me. She willingly lets the whole thing escalate to the point she is crying in the bathroom, when she should have stopped, or at least slowed down, this thing back in the bar!

There were so many points where she should have just stopped the interaction completely. The most important being that moment on the countertop, but at the very latest when he was performing THE CLAW™.

This whole evening was basically her letting him do things to her. And naturally, he escalated further and further.

Note that this doesn't mean I defend Ansari. I think he's a morally devoid, spoiled, pervy, creepy asshole. And an outspoken male feminist to boot. This is not a case of "misreading non verbal cues", "how are men supposed to know" or "just bad sex". This is a borderline sexual predator exploiting a young, defenseless woman - but my point is, she shouldn't have been defenseless. She should have put her foot down. She should have showed him boundaries. At certain points, she should have punched him in the face in my opinion. But she didn't and when she did, she already let him humiliate her. She already made all the wrong choices.

Now, I'm not saying she's a gold digger. But why did she feel pressured by that scrawny, skinny beta male to do anything? Either she's extremely naive or blinded by his millions. Probably a bit of both.

NecroHexr · 2018-04-14T06:59:35+00:00

Are we still harping on this?

2018-04-14T11:02:31+00:00

There is a reason why women need 3 witnesses vs a mans word in muslim law.

Title	Question: What, exactly, did Aziz Ansari do wrong?
Author	fengpi
Upvotes	36
Comments	71
Date	April 14, 2018 6:59 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8c5z1f/question_what_exactly_did_aziz_ansari_do_wrong/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/question-what-exactly-did-aziz-ansari-do-wrong.1178393 https://theredarchive.com/post/1178393

Comments

metoo is literally extortion.

So here's the condensed version as I remember it:

In summary