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Rape requires evidence the accused inserted a body part or object into another not that the accused compelled another to insert a body part or object into the accused. So a mom is spared jail for what she did to her 2 year old son.

NeoNotNeo

August 27, 2022
582 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.courtnewsohio.gov/cases/2022/SCO/0202/210051.asp
Archived from /r/MensRights

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Post Information
Title Rape requires evidence the accused inserted a body part or object into another not that the accused compelled another to insert a body part or object into the accused. So a mom is spared jail for what she did to her 2 year old son.
Author

NeoNotNeo

Upvotes 582
Comments 60
Date August 27, 2022 9:38 PM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wze83k/rape_requires_evidence_the_accused_inserted_a/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/rape-requires-evidence-the-accused-inserted-a-body.1131081
https://theredarchive.com/post/1131081
Top posts by NeoNotNeo

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Without exception every defense of Will Smith's violent assault I’ve personally heard so far comes from women.

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Comments

[–]RatDontPanic 147 points148 points149 points 3 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

"Women can rape men and should go to prison for rape if they do it" said no feminist ever.

[–]AkieShura99 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm a woman and consider myself a feminist. "Feminists" who say what you said in your comment are absolutely revolting and are (IMHO) a c@ancer stain in the movement. Women can absolutely rape men, and they SHOULD go to prison for it. I will fight against sexual violence against men as hard as against women, till the day I die. As well as the stigma surrounding it.

I might be wrong, but judging by your comment I'm assuming there are quite some feminists that have told you otherwise. And I'm very, very sorry about that. That is just not right.

[–]RatDontPanic 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for that. Yes I have encountered and even chronicled evil people who've said that women cannot rape men. Mary Koss, the woman who said "1 in 4 women get raped", said that too. But then so do a lot of conservatives, another group with far less conscience than radical feminists.

We definitely need more people like you in leadership roles.

[+]FalconTrash -28 points-27 points-26 points 3 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

I'm a feminist and I say that. The feminists in my life would agree as well. But mainstream academic feminism has thoroughly neglected this issue, and for that I am sorry. It feels like feminism has become more open to mens rights issues in the last decade. Keep talking about it and keep pushing! And keep in mind that not every feminist is a misandrist. Demonizing all feminists leads to the same ingroup/outgroup tribal mentality thats so destructive to conversations and growth within feminism

[–]copeharderhun 34 points35 points36 points 3 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

The following is a very informed and highly reusable comment by Karen Straughan in response to a feminist who thinks the many blatant sexists among feminists aren't real feminists:

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

[–]Competitive-Box5450 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Take the W

[–]RatDontPanic 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude, this is not how we win allies. We have in front of us a feminist who denounces the feminist bigotry that I complained about. Can't we just welcome them and try to work with them rather than act like the twox / nothowgirlswork / witches hiveminds?

Yes, she's not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial or whatever. We need more feminists like u/FalconTrash, don't we?

Well, don't we?

The way we get more like them is to understand and work with them, not yell at them about how true and untrue they are as feminists.

This is a political war for our rights. Allies win wars, folks, and we need allies. Everyone needs allies.

[+]FalconTrash -16 points-15 points-14 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

If you read my comment again you might notice that I didn't commit the fallacy you're accusing me of using. I'm a huge fan of Karen and the honey badgers, so everything you just posted is information I already had. I don't make excuses for toxic feminists, I stand up to them. You havent engaged with anything I actually said, you had a knee-jerk response because you consider all feminists the enemy. Feminism is the most influential societal movement concerned with gender equality, and I'm still hopeful that it can be guided and reformed to some degree. Opposition to feminism hasnt worked one bit, so I'm going for a softer approach to mens issues. If you engage with feminists in an open minded and empathetic manner they are more likely to listen to your grievances. It has worked out great for me so far, and my local feminist club is now also vocal about some mens issues

[–]RatDontPanic 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I hate when a feminist walks in and openly denounces the excesses of the mainstream movement and gets hammered the way you just did. Sorry you're getting hit like this. Anyone who stands up to the BS needs support not this kind of blind rage. Don't lost heart, lots of us became egalitarians because we're disgusted at exactly the crap you're dealing with now.

[–]FalconTrash -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lmao dont worry about it, I wouldnt call myself a feminist in this sub if I werent fine with being bullied a little. Ive got thick skin.

But thank you for the kind words!

[–]Competitive-Box5450 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

Shush u were put in your place big bollocks above just said whats what

[–]FalconTrash -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

In ten years or so you will look back at your current self and cringe

[–]Competitive-Box54501 points 3 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Why u think im going to believe anything a woman thinks, hahahahaa my bitches dont have thoughts, you cant have teeth and thoughts at the same time, some thing u need

[–]FalconTrash 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You sound like a troll to me, so I'm not phased by anything you say. Cool sexism bro, but I'm not a woman :)

[–]Competitive-Box5450 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Whoops thought u was a woman

[–]FalconTrash 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Yeah thats because you react emotionally and jump to conclusions. Do you consider yourself a rational thinker?

[–]matrixislife 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

To use a religious metaphor, you need to remove the plank from feminists eyes before offering to remove the splinter from the MRA eyes.

I doubt anyone else feels that feminism is more open to MR issues, rather the other way round, they have become decidedly more hostile. But here's the dodgy part, "demonising all feminists" when that is exactly what feminism has done to men for at least the last decade. Fix that first, then we can start to talk.

[–]FalconTrash 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm not putting down the MRA movement, i whole heartedly support it. I'm trying to animate people here to actually engage with feminists, despite the countless shortcomings of the movement. I believe most of them are good people at heart who want to stand up to systemic injustice, but many of their minds and hearts have been poisoned by totalitarian dogma. Most are oblivious to the struggles of men as a class, and the right piece of information has the potential to plant a seed of doubt in their black-and-white worldview. Of course you dont owe them shit, and your anger is justified. Im still boiling with anger about Erin Pizzey. But a hostile attitude has proven to just harden the fronts. You gotta be more subversive if you want things to change

[–]matrixislife 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm a big fan of recruitment by second-hand discussion, making reasonable points to an unreasonable attitude always goes down well with other people reading the thread. I don't think I've discussed anything with a feminist in the last couple of years where I was actually trying to convince them, it's just not going to happen and quite frankly they aren't worth the effort, but people reading the thread see the difference.

[–]FalconTrash 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

People never admit to changing their mind in a reddit argument, but there is a chance that you got them thinking. Thanks for arguing despite it feeling pointless at times!

[–]matrixislife 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It happens, very rarely but it does.
I suspect I'm a natural born contrarian, if I see something that I disagree with then I have a hard time shutting up about it.
If that trait helps other people out then that's fine by me :)

[–]FalconTrash 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I would love to, but I cant, because im just one dude. I dont have control over all feminists. There isnt an overarching feminist institution that governs all feminist thought, its thousands upon thousanda of local movements. Ive already loosened the plank in my local feminist group, and I feel like I have changed more minds than i did in the decade that i was active as an MRA. I dont need to explain to anyone on this subreddit that men are being systemically mutilated, murdered, neglected, villified and abused. I don't need to tell you that the courts, prisons, schools, universities and other institutions are horribly biased, often by design. I would just be preaching to the choir. Whereas my engagement in feminist spaces has changed several peoples minds, who are now outspoken against custody laws, circumcision, rape laws, the systemic emotional neglect of men and so on. They dont tolerate it anymore when their friends say shit like "all men are trash". Its why I'm considering myself a feminist these days (and an MRA, but dont tell them ;P)

[–]matrixislife 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good to hear, I have a lot less faith in feminists being able and willing to reconsider issues important to us. Hopefully you don't have to give too much up to be considered reliable by them.

[–]RatDontPanic 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that's why I'm an egalitarian. I only post here because dissenting opinions would get me banned from feminist subs where I only ever risk a downvote here, but I left the men's rights movement in 2016 because of the very same nonsense I see in academic feminism. (I'm a Warren Farrell kinda guy and he supported Clinton, a name you would be wise not to praise here lol)

I get your point and would be glad to work with feminists like you.

And damn! The downvotes you're getting for your perfectly sensible post are exactly why I don't call myself a MRA anymore.

[–]Leading_Direction_84 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Facts right here.

[–]Competitive-Box5450 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Your a liar and you dont say that, i didnt even read past sentence, you straight lied the rest of your words are invalidated, im a mysogonist abuser and i dont even say that, why wpuld you a feminist piece of shit say it

[–]FalconTrash 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice ad hominem and cool ramble. Try communicating next time

[–]AffectionatePapaya13 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://youtu.be/Z4ulBQt8DmU Came out in way less than 10 years ago so try again lol.

[–]JackeTuffTuff 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is just Nice and correct, Why the downvoting?

[–]FalconTrash 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because of hive mind thinking that feminist = bad

[–]xcheshirecatxx 76 points77 points78 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Isn't it also child porn?

[–]Temporary_Spend_3111 48 points49 points50 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She will definetly see prison time. Just not for a rape charge.

[–]Upsidedown_Sammie 44 points45 points46 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Unbelievably fucked. Ohio legislators need to fix that law so it can’t happen again.

[–]KazukiYahashi 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And they need to fix it like right now!

[–]63daddy 50 points51 points52 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a huge problem. Definitions of rape are very, very biased in favor of women. This is also why in cases of equally intoxicated sex the man is the rapist and woman the victim even though both consented under the same conditions.

Biased definitions also bias male vs female rape victimization comparisons.

Worse yet, some states such as Georgia still define rape exclusively as a crime committed against women by men.

This case is certainly one of the worst. The victim is an infant but the perpetrator is getting away with it due to biased definitions. It’s a sad but great example of why the definition of rape must change. If we’re not going to care about men, we should at least care about sex crimes against infants. Women who so abuse children shouldn’t get off the hook because our definitions are biased.

(Yes, she may be found guilty of another minor offense, but it will be nothing compared to what she deserves due to the bias)

[–]NeoNotNeo[S] 77 points78 points79 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Send this to every feminist who wants to argue why we need a mens right movement. https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-supreme-court-narrows-standard-rape-case-involving-2-year-old-1676503

[–]ExcellentLong85891 points 3 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

age of consent law was created solely to punish men, and pushed by women. The only reason the law was changed to gender neutral is because of gays in 1970 and stonewall, so again women wanted to punish men/gays, because believe or not, back then women were as hateful of gays as anyone. Probably for different reasons though.

[–]Uncle_Touchy1987 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Competition?

[–]ExcellentLong8589 24 points25 points26 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

or lack of resource extraction.

[–]PSI_Machine_Ness 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol, this cracked me

[–]Sintar07 27 points28 points29 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Meanwhile, when any woman accuses a man of rape: "Evidence is so hard to collect the standards need to be lowered! Her testimony is all the evidence you need! Why would a woman ever lie? Believe all women!"

[–]Albino478 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

While conviniently ignoring all the advantages a woman could gain by making a false accusation against a man

[–]ThomasBKlein 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So fathers can have their 2 year old son insert things into them?

[–]samovolochka 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The only thing Ohio has going for it is Jungle Jim’s, change my mind.

[–]ToughProfessional828 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

WAIT WE HAVE THAT HERE STILL?

[–]samovolochka 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

YOU HAVE TWO OF THEM YO.

I drove through Ohio on a recent road trip and went to the one in Fairfield, but the website also lists one in Cincinnati. That was last December that we went. It was great!

But then we quickly left Ohio after stopping there LOL. It was on my “must visit” list on our trip though.

[–]Leading_Direction_84 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't blame the court here, they interpreted the law correctly. The law needs to change though. This is a legislative issue, not judicial.

[–]mechajutaro 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Laws like this won't change, as long as contemporary men's advocacy prioritizes fantasizing about overthrowing The Gynocentric Social Order from behind our keyboards, while twisting ourselves into knots to manufacture rationalizations for not taking sociopolitical action out on the ground, where it really counts. The MRM hasn't experienced a schism like the one that's been present within the gay rights movement since the late 60s ( https://artsandculture.google.com/story/activism-in-the-wake-of-stonewall-the-gay-activists-alliance/5AVxiBGkZiMB9Q?hl=en ), and we're worse off for it

Flagship MRA organizations like AVFM, HBR, and whatever Mike Buchanan's calling his outfit these days have been Alt-Right adjacent equivalents to Far Left revolutionary cliques of The 70s like The GLF. Men's advocacy could benefit from having equivalents to so-called assimilationist organizations like The GAA. It's these supposed conservative advocates, who focused on specific, pragmatically achievable goals, who succeeded, not the folks who clung to tenaciously hair-brained delusions of taking over society

[–]sanem48 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So it's fine as long as he/she keeps it above the pants, noted.

[–]Zefram71 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She should be charged with the production of child pornography, child sexual abuse, lose custody of her child, and do some serious prison time!

[–]Zefram71 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"So a mom is spared jail for what she did to her 2 year old son." Nowhere in the article does it state the egg-donor escaped incarceration, if you have a source that confirms this please provide it, u/NeoNotNeo

[–]weirdornxtlvl 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Having sex with a drunk woman is rape because she can't consent. Having sex with a 2 year old is not rape because they are complicit.

I'm sick and tired of justifying everything a woman does because woman, even on the expense of a 2 year old boy who just got raped.

[–]Zefram71 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What? Is it rape or not? I would say yes, and child sexual abuse. That child should be taken away from her, possibly permanently.

[–]CounterEcstatic6134 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This post is misinformation. This woman has NOT been spared jail. She will be charged as a sex assaulter not rapist. That's the only difference. Stop fooling people. At least read the link you shared. Smh

[+]denisc9918 -19 points-18 points-17 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

It should never have been charged as rape in the first place.

EDIT: Oh, my bad, wrong post.

Here's what I said in the other post..


Fk gender. This a CHILD!

Why these pieces of shit aren't just taken out the back of the courthouse and put down like any other rabid fkn animal is beyond me.

'https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wyrgiw/mother_had_her_conviction_for_raping_her_2yearold/ilzvf7p/?context=3


In short, there should be a separate 'you messed with a child' charge with "c'mon, out the back with you" the only possible sentence.

[–]JadedLitigant 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Because what is the point of judicial authority and proportionate justice if you hand people over to a violent mob for summary execution? It makes us no better than the animals we lock up.

[–]denisc9918 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

  • what is the point of judicial authority

I said "separate charge" and "sentence" that clearly means judicial authority.

  • proportionate justice

I didn't include this, but I would want a very high level of proof. Seems to be the case here.

  • hand people over to a violent mob for summary execution

I never said or implied anything of the kind. Bit overly dramatic there mate.

  • It makes us no better than the animals we lock up.

If a person has NOT messed with a kid they are automatically 'better' than these things we're discussing.

Do dogs that have bitten people taken by Animal Control and given <x> time locked up and released back onto the streets? Why animals like the thing in the article are treated any differently is my question.

Have a look at every drug addicted street walking prostitute, they are almost totally all the victims of child abuse. A short painful terrible life is their sentence.

Even if victims survive past 30 and get successful treatment their sentence is decades of pain filled suffering and arguably the best years of their lives taken away by some animal.

The animals that cause all this pain and suffering get what 5? 10? yrs.

Sorry mate, nobody has a problem spraying cockroaches and I see little difference between them and the animals we're discussing.

[+]bakalabalak -22 points-21 points-20 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean spared by jail? It says right there she gets a minimum of 10 years. Way longer than a lot of male rapists.

[–]duhhhh 28 points29 points30 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She was sentenced to a prison term of 10 years to life on the rape charge.

then ...

In a unanimous decision authored by Justice Patrick F. Fischer, the Court reversed a Fourth District Court of Appeals decision affirming Miranda Smith’s conviction of rape of a child under the age of 13.

[–]Tardstrength89765 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You obviously can't read.

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