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xxshidoshi
[–]many_mean_comments 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
feelings on men are okay but feelings on men are not okay
feelings on men are okay
but feelings on men are not okay
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie.
Memes aside, this is bullshit. Advocating on something while believing the opposite, why is this okay.
[–]Wakka_Grand_Wizard 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Cannot believe that people genuinely think this way /:
[–]xxshidoshi[S] 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You’d be surprised how much men comment stuff like this, especially on fb and instagram
[–]Gaki-San 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
A lot of them are trolling, because they know precisely why this kind of post gets made and what the implied message is supposed to be.
[–]xxshidoshi[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They don’t understand the equality behind it and it’s sad because it literally applies to them and their sons.
[–]Gaki-San 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I think they have a very good idea of what kind of person would post this, what the intended sentiment is, and what to say in order to get that kind of person to screen cap their responses and run back home to the mother ship to have a nice little rant over their trolling.
You know that the original poster is operating from a stereotype about men, so you simply give them that very stereotype ... taken to 11. Works 60% of the time, every time.
[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Manly men never express their emotions, never complain, never go to the doctor's, never take a day off and never live longer than 45 years.
[–]xxshidoshi[S] 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Manly men also love football and watch every game, men who don’t are gay. They hang out with their bois and don’t usually come home until 4am in the morning, and if the missus asks questions, well you know what the manly men would do.
[–]bkrugby78 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Their wives definitely know not to order pizza when their man has had a long hard day of work!
[+]RacelessSexlessName -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
All three of these comments are full of the same shaming tactic... Get over yourselves assholes.
[–]bkrugby78 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It was sarcasm dickweed.
[–]masterdebator300 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This is a good r/wooosh i think lol
[–]RacelessSexlessName 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Without the /s and that you can find this shit that isn't meant /s... Sometimes it's hard to tell.
[–]aesopdarke 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Yes it’s okay to cry but as men we should strive to live a stoic life and deal with problems logically before emotionally. I’m not talking about grieving a loved one or anything like that, I’m not a monster. But say you just got fired, you have no money, no where to live, what the hell is crying going to do? Get out there and find solutions to things that make you want to cry.
[–]p3achy-Angel 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Why cant you cry THEN find a solution though? Everyone deserves time to sort shit out emotionally, and crying is a form of releasing tension. Why carry that tension until you find a solution, rather than to just let it out clearing your emotional bumps?
[–]Blutarg 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, indeed. If you feel like crying (or shouting or cursing) then do it. Otherwise it will build up and come out when you don't want it to. I can promise that.
[–]MoralityPet 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why is crying opposed to action? Why not cry and solve your problems?
[–]DarkOneoftheOutside 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I like this response. I think of emotions as feedback mechanisms that work in tandem with our logical minds to help us determine what we need to do next.
I find that women’s emotions are often amplified (compared to mens’) because they use their emotions as a beacon to attract strong(er) people to solve their problems for them (or to do their bidding for them...police, white knights, etc).
Men’s emotions are not women’s emotions. Men are not dysfunctional women. I see the problem as one of societal non-recognition and non-empathy for men’s non-woman-like expression of our emotions as well as a lack of safe spaces for us to do so (as the original post clearly demonstrates).
[–]tatostix 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So giving yourself 10 to 20 minutes to have an emotional release means you are now incapable of finding a solution? In those 10 to 20 minutes of crying, every single job opportunity in your scenario has gone away, right?
Having a moment of emotion means you are now unable to think logically for the rest of your life?
I love the logic of this sub sometimes. /s
[–]hunchobigbag 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Right as a man you have to make things happen and part of that is being in tune with your own emotions and knowinf what you want and then turning your desires into action not crying like these females do cause in reality that gets you no respect.
[–]Razorbladekandyfan 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I also didn't understand what crying has to do with solution. People cry and solve problems. That is just a false dichotomy to box men into gender roles that are not beneficial.
[–]user_miki 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
See feminists post with drinking MALE TEARS.
[–]Maito_Guy 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The point about men solving problems rather than crying is a good one in general although clumsily put. Men are also physiologically less able to cry.
It is not surprising on the surface it is usually men making these type of comments. Women will at least say men can cry and show emotion they will just have no romantic interest in the guy that does(which is part of the driving factor for these guys comments and their sexual selection is the evolutionary reason for the innate reasons). They will also view a crying/emotional stranger with fear for the most part.
[–]Gaki-San 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The point you make about men’s physiology is very true. When we add low grade testosterone to women and measure their behaviour, they get less emotional, tolerate fewer emotional outbursts or insertions into conversation, negotiate more fairly, get slightly more honest, etc. Swimming in that hormone means we are likely never going to be as emotionally driven or emotive as women are ... ever.
While there’s always idiots that take it to extreme and shame people, there’s nothing wrong with having a suite of male emotions, and male levels of emotional output. We don’t have to cry to the degree women do in order to be perfectly healthy and capable.
[–]Maito_Guy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree. I can see the problem with that meme though. It is all effeminate men. This seems to be the feminist "don't be toxicly masculine, be like a woman" shit. Rather than showing say a builder crying because can't see his kids, a bunch of regular guys camping and sharing their feelings i.e appealing to the typical man and meeting them where they are at.
Most guys will not relate to these weepy metrosexuals and the ones that do have no problem expressing emotions generally.
[–]BetterBadIdeas 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Men learn early that no matter what people say, men gain nothing from airing their emotions to the world at large. Society, and especially women resent male vulnerability. Men must control their emotions, not the other way around and for all the talk about how men supposedly need to handle their emotions more like women do, I think we're better off.
[–]xxshidoshi[S] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
As a female I prefer if men cry, I’ve watched and comforted my father, my bf, my grandfather and my brothers, I’ve never brushed them away. Not all women want men to live like machines. I’d like for a person to live like a human regardless of gender.
[–]BetterBadIdeas 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Your preference isn't particularly relevant. The only thing more insulting than having some (most) women hold male vulnerability as a sign of weakness is to have those same women (or others like yourself) tell us our methods of emoting make us "like machines" and insinuate that the proper way to feel feelings is to do so in a more traditionally feminine manner.
It's good if you actually don't equate male vulnerability to weakness, but please don't go so fa as to insult people who do not emote that way. That's no less ignorant.
[–]xxshidoshi[S] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m you misreading things
[–]masterdebator300 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Gotta sit there and cry my lungs out instead of working to solve my problems. This is what society wants.
[–]boringcarpets 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
More concentration on crying. Always crying. Yeah the comments aren't helpful, but it's like we're aiming to only respond to tears, to encourage crying rather than have male emotions validated as they are, including crying, not limited to.
[–]mgtowolf 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Don't get angry now. Men are not allowed to get angry.
[–]boringcarpets 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly, if there's any truth to "Men aren't allowed to show emotion" then that's up there.
[–]Maito_Guy 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
I can see the problem with that meme though. They are all effeminate men. This seems to be the feminist "don't be toxicly masculine, be like a woman" shit. Rather than showing say a builder crying because can't see his kids, a bunch of regular guys camping and sharing their feelings e.t.c- appealing to the typical man and meeting them where they are at.
Most guys will not relate to these weepy metrosexuals and the ones that do have no problem expressing emotions generally anyway.
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
There is a definite push lately by feminists to try and present toxic masculinity as the solution to all our problems. By the way, the reason there are just soyboys in the propaganda they've provided is because that's the only fucking people they can get to go along with this sort of bullshit.
Yeah, like you say most guys do not buy into this one bit.
[–]MoralityPet 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
soyboys propaganda
soyboys
propaganda
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Stereotypes exist for a reason I'm afraid.
[–]MoralityPet 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Why would an MRA attack men for not conforming to stereotypical masculinity?
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
lol typical, it's nothing to do with masculinity, these people are willing doormats to feminists and allow themselves to be manipulated in the hopes that they might get something in return. I am very interested in how many people visiting this sub are trying to spin everything into a toxic masculinity issue or talk about masculinity generally.
[–]MoralityPet 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wait, why are you calling them soyboys in the meme? It doesn't have anything to do masculinity?
[–]Lethn1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're not being very coherent.
[–]MoralityPet1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What makes someone a soyboy? Why do you use that term?
Because it's funny and winds people like you up which makes it even more funny.
Yeah I get it. But what makes someone a soyboy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az352YaZNM0
I don't get it. The men used as examples in that video don't look anything like the men in OPs picture. And he was talking about how soyboys smile bigger. None of the men in OPs picture are smiling. What makes them soyboys?
[–]radekvitr 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I think you simply misunderstood the term "Toxic masculinity". I will try to help.
Toxic masculinity refers to the set of values that "real men" should/must be violent, not emotional, sexually aggressive, etc. If you aren't muscular enough, don't exclusively like "manly" stuff like football or grilling, you aren't a "real man".
Being masculine simply means you have the attributes traditionally attributed to men: size, strength, etc.
Attacking toxic masculinity is criticising the culture that says you must be or do X to be a man and that other men aren't valid. It doesn't mean it's wrong in any way to be masculine, it just means it's OK not to be.
I hope this cleared things up and that you understand the issue better. I don't have my hopes up since you said "weeping metrosexuals" as an insult, but I may have misunderstood.
[–]Maito_Guy 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
It was not an insult it was an observation, I have no problem with a man being weepy or a metrosexual. My problem is with trying to promote that as the only acceptable form of masculinity.
That is not what toxic masculinity is about at all. It is about attributing bad things that men do to the nature of being male and male culture. It is based on a fundamental mischaracterisation of masculinity and male culture and tries to paint all men with a broad brush and in many cases blame them for their own problems.
It doesn't say you can like masculine or feminine things or behave in a masculine or feminine way at all. It tells men masculine traits are wrong be more feminine.
[–]radekvitr -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
You are wrong about that, that's why I provided the more accurate definition than what you think it means. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemonic_masculinity#Toxic_masculinity . I understand that admitting you understood something wrong is difficult, but what you think toxic masculinity refers to simply isn't what toxic masculinity is to people who use the term.
Even wikipedia supports my definition over yours, maybe it could help you see that masculinity itself isn't really criticised by most people like you think. The point really is that being either feminine or masculine is fine. It's that being violent isn't fine and that it shouldn't be the celebrated norm.
[–]Maito_Guy 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Can you read? my definition is a perfect summary of the toxic masculinity section. To use one example tying violence to masculinity: Women can be violent, violence is not a masculine trait, random acts of violence are not accepted in male culture. Learning to master your emotions and only use violence in defence of yourself or others is a masculine trait. That is a perfect example of how TM falsely ties masculinity to a negative trait anf displays a fundamental misunderstanding of masculinity and male culture.
[–]radekvitr -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Except it isn't at all. To quote the literal second sentence: " Other scholars have used the term toxic masculinity to refer to stereotypically masculine gender roles that restrict the kinds of emotions allowable for boys and men to express, including social expectations that men seek to be dominant (the "alpha male") and limit their emotional range primarily to expressions of anger. " There's no use trying to convince you if we can't agree on the meaning of simple written text. Good day.
[–]Maito_Guy 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Firstly you are ignoring the fact that everything described in both the post you initially responded to and my last one was also in the wikepidia article. Secondly there is nothing within masculinity or masculine culture that "limits mens emotional range primarily to expressions of anger". Women get angry just as much as men, men express and encourage each other to express a wide range of emotions. Reacting angrily and losing control of your emotions is thoroughly unmasculine and has always been discouraged on male culture.
That is another attempt to tie a negative trait to masculinity and a total misunderstanding of it along with male culture. Not only have you ignored all of the things in the wikepedia that fell under my original definition(most of it), not only did you ignore the specific example in my last post, you actually provided another example in your argument telling me I am wrong.
Maybe you should cut back on the smug air of superiority if you don't know what you are talking about and run away when you get shown to be wrong.
[–]radekvitr -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'll try one last time:You're talking about negative traits being attributed to men not being masculine - aggression isn't exclusive to men. We agree there. It is, however, a traditionally masculine trait. There are some shitty traits associated with masculinity and femininity, deal with it.
I'm talking about the definition of the term "toxic masculinity", which you're misusing. I quoted a sentence from the article that is 100% conformant with the definition I provided. You assert that I'm wrong, so you should support that somehow other than just telling me I'm wrong. Nowhere in that article does it say that toxic masculinity is "attributing negative traits to masculinity", as you say. In fact, both the initial statements and the first paragraph's detailed description supports my definition.I quote the second paragraph: " According to Kupers, toxic masculinity serves to outline aspects of hegemonic masculinity that are socially destructive ".
Simply put, toxic masculinity is shitty behavior, not a term used to associate bad things to men. You keep misinterpreting simple sentences to support your wrong definition. It's kind of hard not to sound condescending when you're misinterpreting direct sentences in a source I provided. But I'm genuinely trying to believe you're simply misunderstanding instead of being willfully ignorant.
edit: Just in case, I'll use your tactic: If you don't respond, you ran away, or something. Just because I'm giving up on your reading comprehention doesn't mean I was shown wrong.
[–]Maito_Guy 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I defined toxic masculinity, you attempted to refute that definition by providing a link that did all of the things I outlined in my definition. I did not say nothing in your definition was true or that their are no grains of truth in toxic masculinity. Masculinity is innate to men and tying traits like violence, anger, sexual aggression e.t.c to masculinity is to tie it to men.
Furthermore and as you keep ignoring they have never been an accepted part of what it means to be a man, random violence, losing control of your emotions or hurting women have always been things that men teach their sons NOT to do, things that older males teach boys NOT to do, and have never been promoted as positive among men.
There are bad actions that men engage in more often, that does not make them part of masculinity. Women kill babies way more often than men does that make baby killing part of femininity? women make false accusations way more than men does that make them part of femininity? Try and sell that in a feminist space and see how long you last.
Notice the distinct absence of any theory of toxic femininity from feminism, it is just more misandric bullshit to smear men with.
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If its a shitty behavior, you could have named it as such instead of adding "masculinity". Speaks a lot, dont you think?
[–]radekvitr 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If they had nothing to do with pooping, rude idiots wouldn't be called "assholes" /s
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Being violent is fine if it furthers our goals. Diplomacy 101.
[–]sisterchristopher 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
one thing mras do forget that, like feminists and women, there will be intolerant people that share our gender. i know a lot of men who still think emotion in boys is weak and disgusting - we gotta focus on that as well
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
No you don't, I suspect if it's a genuinely bad situation it's probably like 5 at most and you're just trying to extrapolate it to the whole gender so fuck off with those kinds of statements. Why is it that MRAs aren't allowed to generalise about women in the slightest yet you're allowed to say whatever shit you like about men?
[–]sisterchristopher 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
im an MRA you fuckwit
im just saying that there are men who are intolerant of mens mental health issues - and its not neccessarily JUST a double standards issue alone. is that so hard to understand?
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Where's your evidence? That's all I'm asking for and as usual the people who make these sorts of blanket statements about men never provide it. I don't care if you're an MRA I'm still going to call you out on your bullshit, this is not a collectivist group.
[–]sisterchristopher 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
i see it all the time, growing up as a man with mental health issues i can tell you that intolerance doesnt conform to either gender
im legit just saying that its not just women that shit on men with mental health issues, its also other men - this really isnt a crazy idea
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So in other words you think personal experience trumps reality, I don't subscribe to that in the slightest and I'm somebody who has had serious issues with my education. There's no doubt I'm sure that there are intolerant people and yes you're right. There are men out there that do such things in fact I've seen the cunts sometimes in this very sub.
i know a lot of men who still think emotion in boys is weak and disgusting
My problem with you is how you wrote this, you don't know a lot of men, I get into arguments with feminists about this as well. In your life you may know personally about 50 people at most and that's if you're extremely outgoing and sociable or you spend a lot of time with them.
That is not an accurate representation of an entire gender or people and I frequently see feminists doing this especially with the MeToo movement. They think that their personal experiences trumps everything. They think that because they live in a shitty self-segregated society like Hollywood which is filled with genuine creeps and that's precisely what you're doing here.
Real life isn't like that and you'll quickly discover if you venture outside of your own self-segregated bubble just how fast attitudes and beliefs change even simply by travelling to another town or city within your country where you can meet lots of different people.
By the way, that's something I frequently recommend people do if they have experienced serious issues within the communities they've grown up in, you're trying to apply your personal experience to everybody here.
[–]sisterchristopher 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
bro you really think everyone is on the same wavelength as you? i know a lot of dudes, ive just come out of school and i can tell you there is some heavy intolerance
now you cant prove it either way, because this is a personal experience issue and is not something that can be accurately measured. all im saying is, people are blaming feminists for all damage to men when we have to consider the fact there will be and are intolerant men in the population which arent considerate to men who suffer with mental health issues
i dont need to go on a spiritual gap year across europe to tell you that there will be cunts everywhere. i dont believe this is anywhere near a majority of men, nor do i believe that it should represent men - im just saying, that to ignore the fact that there are cunty dudes who shit on other men with mental health issues is dumb and that we should address it
im not tryna red pill anyone here fam
[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Schools are certifiable shitholes, everyone is intolerant of everybody in those places and it may as well be a prison. No wonder you've got such a skewed view of the world.
people are blaming feminists for all damage to men when we have to consider the fact there will be and are intolerant men in the population which arent considerate to men who suffer with mental health issues
Again, you keep stating this and you have zero evidence for it, you don't know 'a lot of men' you just think you do, in reality you don't even know 1% of the male population and you're sitting there stating matter of factly you know this is how a lot of men think.
If you read my post properly you'd realise I'm not telling you to go on a gap year I'm telling you to at the very least take a weekend trip to a city somewhere away from all the school bullshit and you could even make that part of a goal if you're looking to get a part time job or something.
No one is denying outright that there are cunts out there, you're probably thinking of men who have very traditionalist tendencies or they're just cunts who don't understand the shit people are going through and they do exist. However unlike feminists they aren't organised, they don't have lobby groups and they aren't openly colluding to take away our rights.
That's what MRAs are about, they're a Men's Rights movement I'm going to refer you to one of the unspoken rules on the internet of "not your personal army" MRAs aren't people you can just call on to deal with all the arseholes you had to deal with in school in some revenge fantasy. Now if you were dealing with genuine harassment and borderline criminal activity then yeah people will be happy to give advice and have done so especially if your a student still in school but you said yourself you're out now. If you're still having to deal with the same cunts then you can call the police now since you're outside of the schools' jurisdiction.
Take it from somebody who still hates the education system to this day, schools and universities are self-segregated shitholes. They are not accurate representations of the real world and you will quickly realise if you travel and explore the country just how self-segregated these places are.
[–]jameswalker43 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Who does not behave in a way that can be perceived as deeply irresponsible sometimes? Then we get judged as fuckwit. fuckwit is a fixed feature we attribute to each other, but the reality is far more complex. Correct me if I’m wrong. Sending you lots of warm wishes.
[–]sisterchristopher 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
what the fuck
[–]KilltheK 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sometimes I cry when I am forced to speak to women who are mind-numbingly stupid.
[–]ThriftyGeo69 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Everyone cries, when have emotions become sexist?
[–]xxshidoshi[S] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Men have been told they shouldn’t cry because it’s pathetic and weak , they’re told to ‘man up’. When? Before you were born.
[–]foxleader81 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s true, but it’s gone to the other extreme. Some people cry for everything.
[–]wasanoob 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
FEMINIZE EVERYTHING
[–]remmuh1985 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Haha SoyBoys
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[–]radekvitr -2 points-1 points0 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]Maito_Guy 2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]radekvitr -1 points0 points1 point (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Maito_Guy 2 points3 points4 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]radekvitr -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Maito_Guy 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]radekvitr 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Mackowatosc 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sisterchristopher 1 point2 points3 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]sisterchristopher 2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]sisterchristopher 2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]sisterchristopher 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jameswalker43 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]sisterchristopher 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KilltheK 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ThriftyGeo69 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]xxshidoshi[S] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]foxleader81 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wasanoob 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]remmuh1985 -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link