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Two Failed Strategies Used by MRM

JohnGawel

February 7, 2022
1 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://criticathink.wordpress.com/2021/07/28/two-failed-strategies-used-by-mrm/
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Post Information
Title Two Failed Strategies Used by MRM
Author

JohnGawel

Upvotes 1
Comments 35
Date February 7, 2022 8:53 PM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/sn0ly0/two_failed_strategies_used_by_mrm/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/two-failed-strategies-used-by-mrm.1100485
https://theredarchive.com/post/1100485
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Comments

[–]OldEgalitarianMRA 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It takes decades to make social change. We primarily raise consciousness and in that the MRM has been successful. 50/50 shared parenting was just voted default in Kentucky and other states are said to be following. The world is aware that men are failing school.

[–]63daddy 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with the author that the men’s movement can’t support feminism. Feminism is the direct cause of most anti-male practices.

One example that frustrates me is that feminists have pushed many anti-male practices and pro-female practices into education. We are finally seeing more articles addressing how boys are falling behind in education but these articles continually fail to mention the role feminism has played in this issue. We can’t fix the problem if won’t address the cause.

[–]langoley01 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok,did you see the article about BPA and what it does to men?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/06/americans-exposed-toxic-bpa-fda-study

[–]JohnGawel[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm from Europe, we have more strict regulations about food industry.

[–]langoley01 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When I read this I thought, well things make more sense now.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here is the post with more precise article and comment with criticism: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pro_Male_Collective/comments/sni7bd/comment/hw2jyrt/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[–]CawlinAlcarz 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Heh, the article is at least 50% BS because it posits that feminism comes from conservatives. This is simply untrue. I suspect that the author is having trouble reconciling his own liberal nature with the smack-in-the-face wakeup call he got when some of his more radical libtardy friends went fully around the bend with the feminist agenda and left him hanging out in the cold.

He just can't accept that liberals would adopt a discriminatory ideology...

Anyway, his first point was right on at least - and that's what leads to his cognitive dissonance I think.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

It's true: https://promalecollective.wordpress.com/2019/04/30/an-observation-about-the-famous-seneca-falls-convention/

No one deny that left-wingers are damaged by the feminist ideology.

[–]Clemicus 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That doesn't backup your argument. That just states feminism has roots in religion. Society changes over time. Things that were the norm today may not be the norms of tomorrow

[–]CawlinAlcarz -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Heh, it's an absurd premise to conclude that the current day version of feminism looks anything like something that happened 170 years ago when women could not vote and probably couldn't even own property.

Modern day feminism is a creation of the radical left.

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Heh, it's an absurd premise to conclude that the current day version of feminism looks anything like something that happened 170 years ago when women could not vote and probably couldn't even own property.

  • https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/coretexts/_files/resources/texts/1848DeclarationofSentiments.pdf
  • Declaration of Sentiments and Resolutions – Seneca Falls (1848)
  • The history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her.

Sounds a lot like feminist patriarchy theory.

  • Patriarchy Theory: All men oppress women for men's benefit.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Not true.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9v6tqj/a\_list\_about\_feminism\_misandry\_for\_anyone\_who/

[–]Clemicus -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What part of that supports your argument? It's a huge wall of text

[–]JohnGawel[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The clue is that a feminism has always been bad, the distinction between waves don't exist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qiwi93/feminism_has_always_been_bad/

[–]Clemicus 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Are you moving the goal posts? I stated none of that, I simply was trying to find out where in the huge block of text was your point

Either you can quote that section or you can fuck right off

[–]JohnGawel[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just read it if you're genuinely interested or don't concern me. 1st wave feminists aren't different that their continuators. They are doing the same things. First post that I've put here isn't especially long.

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

To be honest, nothing has worked. I don't think anything ever will work.

It may be interesting to research things, but no feminist is gonna read a long post, they may read a few bullet points, but not much more. Then they will summarily dismiss the issue by blaming men or the patriarchy and continue as before.

Logic and reason are ineffective.

My working assumption if there is no leverage in the left brain, so you'll need to leverage the right brain, appeal to their emotions.

But the problem there is woman's in-group preference. Not only that, but women don't generally seem to hear what men are saying. Cassie Jaye talks some about that in her video.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY
  • MEETING THE ENEMY A feminist comes to terms with the Men's Rights movement | Cassie Jaye | TEDxMarin

Warren Farrel has a book titled that Women don't hear what men don't say, or something to that effect. I disagree, women don't hear what men do say.

So men won't be able to evoke a positive emotional reaction from women, but they can pretty easily get a negative emotional reaction. Unfortunately, if they are already a feminist then misandry is probably what they already do.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Why do you care about convincing women? MRM should be directed to men.

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Keep in mind that women are the majority voting block and politicians know this. We're going to need some women fighting for equality to get any results.

And I doubt you'll convince tradcons of either sex, but for different reasons.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes but it could be achieved after getting critical mass of support and from men and generally their awareness. Male-on-male hostility is now a worse barrier for us than lack of female support.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Male-on-male hostility is now a worse barrier for us than lack of female support.

Source?

[–]JohnGawel[S] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good observations. I think that we all should consider this insight to avoid making the same mistakes of MRM that caused current impasse of our movement.

[–]g1455ofwater -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I'll sum up that absolute load of horse shit: Join the cult of Leftist.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

You're worried because false MRAs were call outed there.

[–]Tank-o-grad 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You are half way to an important realisation, you are correct that the right is no friend to the MRM, the other half you have to realise is that the left is not our friend either.

The Left or right distinction all builds down to feelings toward the correct ownership of the means of production and both will appeal to what has the best mass market pull in a democracy when it comes to gender issues that's how to best advantage women. Women have an in group bias for their sex men have an out group bias, gynocentrism is the natural state of humanity, sadly, but so is slavery and we're moving past that now so it's not an impossible fight. However, it's going to take a focus on it and not on whether the MRA standing next to you shares your views on whether the government or private individuals should generate and control the wealth of the nation you are in.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The Left or right distinction all builds down to feelings toward the correct ownership of the means of production

It's American specific, in Europe this division isn't as much about economic issues.

I agree that the left-wing is damaged by feminist bias but everyone here are aware of this. The problem is that many people don't realise the same thing about TradCons.

[–]Tank-o-grad 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The left right distinction on those lines comes from Revolutionary France ya dingus. The spectrum in the USA is significantly right shifted compared to Europe, I'll grant you that, but that just means the right wing trad cons here are the left wingers in the states.

As I said, all sides are gynocentric, there isn't anywhere you can pick on any political map and say, "they're the good guys" when it comes to men's rights, you have to look at individuals and those individuals can be found in parties across the political spectra. To give an example to counter your insistantes from the UK probably the leading voice on men's rights in the UK Parliament is the honorable member for Shipley, Philip Davies who is a member of the ostensibly Centre right Conservative party.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Generally and using oversimplification, right-wingers are defending hierarchy, left-wingers are more egalitarian. I don't argue with what you said, I only wanted to point that it's American (and, in significant degree, Anglosphere) specific that being right-wing always means advocating for free-market policy. Most of European right-wing parties are more like German Christian democracy than American republicans. Also we use the term libertarian rather to describe anarchists, not right-wing free market radicals (but in this case, my country is more like US). I'm not from UK, I'm from Poland, I'm not especially into British politics.

[–]Tank-o-grad 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There are progressives and small c conservatives on both wings though, this is similar to the American thing where they've confused liberal and left wing to mean the same thing because, for a while, the liberals and the left wingers were often in the same space (when the right had power) now the left has power (with occasional blips) they tend to be more authoritarian and it's the right wing that has the liberals in it but that confuses people because the liberals are the lefties, aren't they. The whole political map doesn't boil down to a single axis (left right, i.e. controlled economy public ownership vs free market private ownership ) nor does adding 1 more (liberals authoritarian i.e. Greater personal freedoms vs greater social control) fully define it, there's at least one more for progressive vs conservative (i.e. change the things vs don't change the things). No particular position on any of these axses guarantees openers or closedness to the MRM and it's messages.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, American liberals are something like European social-liberals or democratic-liberals that are rather centrist.

I think that both authoritarianism and radical economic views (ultra liberalism and communism) must be anti-male when we observe the results.

[–]g1455ofwater -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's political propaganda and your framing of it is BS.

[–]JohnGawel[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not associated with any political option, I have centre-left views but I don't support any party because of their feminism.

[–]g1455ofwater -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are promoting the leftist cult which means you are anti-men's rights.

[+][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]z-vet 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Please stop spamming.

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