Why not disengage?

KrisK_lvin · 2016-03-14T20:58:23+00:00

if you understand what a bad deal men get in society, why not disengage from it? For example, if getting married and having children is insecure and disappointing, how about just not doing it?

As u/SporkTornado’s pointed out below, there is a kind of loosely organised subculture called MGTOW (Men Going There Own Way) that are already advocating for doing just that - although there’s a very wide range of opinions as to how they interpret just what that means.

But a question for you - do you think society as a whole stands to gain or net benefit or net loss by them doing that?

In Japan, they’ve been labelled as herbivore or grass-eater men. I gather it’s considered a problem over there.

If your view is that, we just need to … go back to the good old days.

And what good old days would those be? There’s a general misconception that MRAs are conservatives. There is some truth in this insofar as many have strong faith in individualism and as such they tend to lean towards Libertarian politics and free market democracies (a notable contrast with much Feminism for instance that tends towards collectivism and reliance on centralised state power).

But if you read the FAQ and look at the things that they are advocating for, you’ll find that they are things that have never existed in society at any point prior to now (there’s no doubt some rare exception somewhere, but if there is a) I don’t know it and b) it would the exception that proves the rule).

If your view is that, we just need to improve the legal system … then shouldn't you wait until that societal change happens before start getting involved with things that (as they are currently) could ruin your life?

What?

I’m not sure what you’re trying to ask there - are you saying people should wait patiently for change to materialise rather than actively try to lobby for it? Or what?

SporkTornado · 2016-03-14T20:40:16+00:00

Some men do that. It's called Men Going There Own way (MGTOW)

chocoboat · 2016-03-15T02:27:58+00:00

Just because the laws are shit and need to be fixed, that doesn't mean all MRAs are going to deprive themselves of having a wife and children if that is something that they want in their lives. It's like asking black people "tired of being pulled over for driving while black? why not just not own a car?" Some people might, but most don't want to disengage from society, they want society to be fixed.

As for marriage though, the concept of a legal government-recognized marriage is outdated in today's society. It's little more than a "volunteer to give up your property if you break up" contract, and most men should avoid it. Still, some men have their reasons to get married.

duhmoment · 2016-03-15T03:31:25+00:00

Look I completely understand the mgtow concept and how it is more important to the upcoming generations because of the type of mates that are available now compared to even my generation. (Born in the 70's). Life is also short and youth is fleeting. If you're fine with never having a relationship good for you keep on keeping on. However If any MGTOW is thinking "someday I'll look for someone because I really would like a family" it will never be easier for you to find that person then it is right now. Burn through as many relationships as you must and keep your expectations where you want them. The dating pool only gets smaller and the women that are worth being with and held onto will not be there anymore. It's like going fishing after the commercial troller comes through, not many fish and those you catch aren't worth keeping.

Juan_Golt · 2016-03-14T22:48:54+00:00

Meh there are plenty of people in this world who struggle with harder shit and manage to get by. I'm sure Subutai could have said "Invade Russia in the winter? Nah, that sounds hard."

Look I have zero problem with MGTOW. There is nothing wrong with seeing which way the wind is blowing and deciding to just get out of the way. For me personally I'm just not going to. I'd rather fight for the things I want. Even if it is costly and grants few victories.

HotDealsInTexas · 2016-03-14T23:08:25+00:00

I'm just curious, if you understand what a bad deal men get in society, why not disengage from it?

How exactly does one "disengage from society." Become a hermit in the woods? Society is everywhere there are people, so the only way to disengage from it is by cutting yourself off from all human interaction. Even then, pretty much every inch of habitable land in the world is claimed by a national government, and a large portion of it is owned by individuals or corporations. If you try to live completely "off the grid," you will be either squatting or vagrant. Otherwise, you still have to pay property taxes and stuff. That isn't going into things like food, water, medical care, access to information, etc.

Basically, telling people to disengage from society because it fucks them over is like telling black people in the segregation-era South "If you're sick of being made to go to the back of the bus, why not just walk?"

ThePigmanAgain · 2016-03-15T08:43:59+00:00

Many of us have already done that. Not exactly a new idea, you know?

BlightedArrow91 · 2016-03-15T18:33:28+00:00

This is just pure defeatism, sorry but i have a bit too much optimisim and strength to fight to throw my arms in the air and scream fuck it.

PurpleViolettron · 2016-03-15T01:55:54+00:00

Maybe some people would rather be optimists than pessimists. Maybe they'd like to see potential instead of acting like a bunch of children and basically doing the pseudo-adult equivalent of "Girls are gross. I don't want to play with them."

Title	Why not disengage?
Author	Botanical-Concepts
Upvotes	7
Comments	33
Date	March 14, 2016 8:11 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4aeuo3/why_not_disengage/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-not-disengage.954022 https://theredarchive.com/post/954022

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