Many people want us to sign petitions, because it might help our cause. I don't think we should concentrate on that. In fact I think it would be a bad thing.
I have five years of professional experience in the political arena, as well as thirty years of amateur activism in my free time. I can assure you that 99.9% of petitions are completely ignored by those in power.
All those people who sign petitions are wasting their time. Even worse, they think they've done something - and this prevents them from actually doing something.
The things that would actually help achieve change, roughly in descending order of effectiveness, are:
Creating and organising activist groups for proper action. We need to form support groups and activist lobbies for everything, just like the feminists did. That's one of the most important things at this stage. Getting organised.
Comments on public forums and news articles where others can see. This is a good example of one you could use yourself. For comment use, it can be good to keep a supply of replies to common misandrist rants in a text file. Just copy and paste, then edit to suit the individual circumstances. Always keep in mind that the entire point of an Internet argument is not to convince your opponent. It's to convince the people who are reading and not posting - there are about a hundred times more of those.
Personal meetings with representatives
Personal meetings with the staff of representatives. I was one of those staff, and I had more personal influence than some actual politicians.
Personal paper letters to politicans, political staff, advertisers and media. Here is a handy table of relevant statistics and resources Here's another info site. Both are new and currently not fully verified - I would appreciate it if someone who has the time would give it a look.
Phone calls to the above
Emails to the above. Example.
Donations to organised groups, helping out, and so on.
I've left street demonstrations off the list, because their effectiveness is extremely uncertain. A million people marching would get attention,a couple of people with signs might get laughed at. But don't let that discourage you; each person who becomes aware is a victory - and you have to start somewhere. Personally, I don't attend these very often because I think they're not all that useful, but your mileage may vary.
There are other aspects that I might discuss later, but don't have the time for today. However, these are the things that work. More on activism.
Edit: There are some cases where petitions may help, but as wisty said, it's usually when the media are friendly to the cause. And most of the media are not friendly to ours, though I expect this to change over time. It's already starting.
So I'm not saying never sign a petition. I've signed a few myself. What I am saying is don't stop there - do one or more of the other things too.
Edit 2: I've changed and added a few things in this post.In particular, I've uprated and expanded the section about comments in public forums, because I remembered that was the main reason the MRM actually started to go mainstream. I cannot overstate the importance of putting our points on public forums where random silent readers can see them. Also this is relevant.
Edit 3: Some people are worried that we lack leadership, money and lobbying power. Don't worry about that. You only need a small intelligent and disciplined core group that can gradually begin to shift public opinion. Small example.
Then there'll be the less dedicated activists and those who come and go, but they will serve their purpose too.
Once you begin to get enough of these, public opinion will slowly shift. More donations and votes will come as the movement begins to go viral and its memes replicate themselves.
A few years later, you'll have all that good lobby power and the ability to actually change things.
Consider the history of feminism. It went through exactly that process. So did most other successful social movements. I think it will be much faster this time.
Despite the slowing effect of generational change, the Internet will speed things up dramatically. It already has.
Persistence and patience are the keys to success.
[–]DougDante 9 points10 points11 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[+]ValjeansGhost [recovered] (24 children) | Copy Link
Good luck trying to organize "average" Americans; men, women, or whatever.
It's like herding stray cats; they're penniless yet stubbornly individualistic.
Honestly, if we could take online donations to hire a lobbyist firm(s) to represent us in key states and DC, we could easily save ourselves. Of course, we would need to have a public face represent were we pool our political donations...
But Muh Leaderlessness.
Exactly.
[–]EvilPundit[S] 2 points3 points4 points (21 children) | Copy Link
[+]ValjeansGhost [recovered] (20 children) | Copy Link
I can testify to that.
What I meant to say wasn't "we need a thousands in the street."
What I meant to say was that it would be effectively impossible to create a "People for the American Way/Focus on Family/Planned Parenthood" style organization.
Where-as I wouldn't expect American people to donate time, my problem is that they wouldn't even donate money either. (We are so lazy we won't even pay others to solve our problem!)
Imagine, for instance, we appointed Karen Straughan or Warren Farrell as actual "leaders" in the same sense that James Dobson or Wayne LaPierre is. (Or...we could find better leaders. GASP)
Rather than merely being "bloggers," they would primarily exist to fund raise for the cause, and then distribute the money to advance that cause.
The problem is that Americans today (especially Millennials) are pants-on-head political retards, and assume that voluntarily donating money to figureheads = mah oppression.
So like, if we pooled our money to an organization which would represent our cause, we could then effectively spare us the agony of this whole process, and operate as a real, powerful organization.
But Valjeansghost, what if I don't like that civic organization?
Then don't donate to it.
But Valjeansghost, clearly this isn't how "real" politics works. The NRA/Human Rights Campaign/National Organization for Woman hasn't accomplished anything...
Despite the fact that our nation is pro-gun, pro-gay marriage, and pro-Feminist BECAUSE of organizations like this.
I'd rather spend one hundred hours blogging on the internet then donate one hundred dollars to solving this problem.
Exactly.
People may think I'm making out American Men are caricatures, but this is pretty much their entire stance done in a nutshell. Only the Baby Boomer generation has effectively managed to politically organize, where as future generations (especially Millennials) think that even basic voluntary leadership is somehow Soviet Tyranny. (Notice, however, that very few new political organization emerged from future generations. And the old ones are still sustained by...the old)
The biggest obstacle to our success is that since we can't politically organize (whether through donations or actual 'organizing,) we will lack any legislative effect on society.
And the biggest problem with places like Return of Kings or MGTOW and Red Pill is that their anti-government stance translates to a lack of government action; Republicans hate the government, but they sure as shit are neck deep in it.
Anyway, color me unimpressed by Joe American.
I do agree with you comments 1000%, though, and we both share the same opinion about what needs to be done. I grew up in NOVA, so everything this man says is true.
But the fundamental problem is our hatred of any kind of VOLUNTARY leadership means that we are doomed for the foreseeable future.
TLDR: Unless we put our money where are mouth is, Men's Rights is a non-starter. This means Leaders, but we'd rather be divorce raped than admit the need for leadership.
[–]anonlymouse 0 points1 point2 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[+]ValjeansGhost [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
Really? Which organizations? What have they accomplished? Last time I checked, we are getting our asses handed to by the legislature and the media.
Because besides giving Men's Rights activists Welfare/Patreon money for blogging, IDK what exactly has been done.
Of course, Men's Rights activists clearly admit that they don't want to be leaders, so that means its totally okay to subsidize their hobby.
[–]anonlymouse 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
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[+]ValjeansGhost [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
These are non-answers.
But whatever. Let the MRM keep doing blogging-as-usual. See how that turns out.
[–]anonlymouse 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]ValjeansGhost [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Right, because god forbid someone challenges an infallible opinion; especially if that opinion lacks any political experience.
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/2/new-evidence-suggests-that-the-rich-own-our-democracy.html
Do we want to be Donors, or Voters?
[–]anonlymouse 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[+]ValjeansGhost [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
I had thought of that, and then completely forgot I thought of it. Which is why I'm glad you brought it up.
Quoting for Genius. Good Point! Our laws are written to our favor, due to the nature of American Universalism.
The thing is, if this organization already exists, it needs to come to us. Only to show that they are genuine, rather then some stupid "ego-bs."
[–]ripple24 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[+]ValjeansGhost [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
The goal should be creating a nonprofit which focuses exclusively on MRA.
Easier said than done.
And the direction should be primarily legal, with a secondary direction in lobbying. (Outreach really isn't necessary in this case; bizarrely, Men's Rights greatest ally is Jezebel.)
But what I would NEVER do is actually solicit organization for our behalf; that's just asking to be taken advantage of.
Of course, founding a non profit would be extremely difficult. The problem for us would mainly be removing the "Anti-Political" bias that PUA/MGTOWs like to peddle. (There's a reason why the Koch Brothers donate $900 Million dollars for Campaigns...it's the ACTUAL way our politics works, for better or worse.)
Also, I would avoid the Koch Brothers specifically, because they are known to "co-opt" movements for their own aims (mainly to support their industries.) I don't really give a shit about their specific "politics" (I am a left winger,) but the Koch Brothers are just disingenious (especially because they are so out-of-touch.)
Honestly, Republicans could be allies, as a whole though. (Again, I am a Left Winger, but I am speaking candidly.) Social Conservatives could very easily be dissuaded from the stances that Reagan "built in" to the party. (Reagan was the first governor to implement no-fault-divorce. Let that sink in.)
But again. It depends on how much more we keep chasing the "Muh Lone Wolf" rabbit hole, because being "apolitical" is testament to being a ghetto underclass.
[+]jasonfunk [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree. We need to get away from lone wolf, but moreso we need to avoid the extremely toxic, narrow "m-muh l-left d-dont trust c-c-capitalism evil system b-broke muh millennials". It reminds me of a 16 year old shouting "the system work for them" and spray painting anarchy signs on everything. it's potentially fatal to the acitivism, akin to "kill all men" bra burners, or the American National Socialists.
[–]ValjeansGhost1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[+]jasonfunk [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
"Grrr American millennials! I'm so much better than them"
sit down, dude, you're a broken record through your whole post history
[+]ValjeansGhost [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I am actually a Millennial myself, and as someone whose worked with them in politics and employs them, this is commonly known among people who manage them.
[+]jasonfunk [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
The same could be said about Boomers and the only people who would disagree are boomers. The same could be said about Gen X. The only people that would disagree is Gen X. Every generation blames all the others. It's not isolated narcissism.
[–]ValjeansGhost1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]EvilPundit[S] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]jasonfunk [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
You may have righteous intent, but I just can't take you seriously. Your whole post history is nothing but nobody gets it, no young people in western society has any enlightenment.... except ME
One proactive post that wasn't just criticism from an (IMO likely unearned) self imposed moral and intellectual superiority would change my view, but I didn't see any.
[–]ValjeansGhost1 point [recovered] | Copy Link