With so many subscribers here having previously identified as feminists, why do so many others assume that feminists are impossible to educate?

Stalgrim · 2014-11-15T09:07:45+00:00

There's people who say "I'm a feminist" because when they asked what it meant they were told "the idea that men and women are equal", and there's feminists who spend everyday self indoctrinating on YouTube videos and university programs that hard-wire them to resist any attempt at challenging feminist.

Group 1 isn't the real problem, it's group 2 that's pushing the gynocentric bullshit that's destroying society one step at a time.

JayBopara · 2014-11-15T05:52:15+00:00

If you engage a feminist in a debate and attempt to educate their ignorant world view, that is just a start. They will tell you, you are bitter, a misogynist, or the other usual ad hominem attacks they throw. It usually takes years of self reflection for a feminist to realize they are wrong, and were lied to.

It's similar to having a person who believes in religion, often it will take them years to realize that not everything is the literal truth. So yes, you can try to educate them, but realize in most cases it will take years for them to realize they believe in lies.

DavidByron2 · 2014-11-15T04:57:06+00:00

it literally took five minutes for me to drop kick that label

I suspect you had never really thought about the issues much if that's the case. But why don't you tell us about the sense in which you were a feminist before, and why you decided you weren't a feminist after all.

2014-11-15T04:52:47+00:00

You're thinking about male feminists, who often become MRAs after being derided for being male one too many times, or even worse had a false rape accusation or went through a bad divorce.

Female feminists are usually beyond help as their entire world is based around a narrative of personal victimhood, wheras male feminists are more like observers, less personally involved. Although I am guessing one way a female feminist might change is if her son was abused by the government or agents acting on its behalf/orders, like being expelled from college for sex with a drunked girl who was known to be a sexually aggressive whore but who woke up one morning as the virgin mary and decided she had been raped.

People can change, but it takes more than education, usually life changing events.

AdmiralKuznetsov · 2014-11-15T12:53:22+00:00

There are two kinds of people with this kind of thing; zealots and followers. Zealots are the insane ones who will rationalize any and all kinds of discrimination so long as it superficially benefits them and they can't be helped. Followers are simply ignorant, not malicious or evil but uninformed and probably well intentioned.

You can educate ignorant but you can't educate stupid.

2014-11-15T14:49:09+00:00

Example from one of my classes

teacher :Women make .77 cents on the dollar compared to men for the same work.

me : no they don't. The statistic is misleading due to piling different characteristics together that dont make sense. Ie, pretending a housewife is a full time job etc.

teacher : well a housewife should get payed for her work!

me : so you agree that i should get payed for mowing the lawn

teacher: no! women deserve it due to opression,etc

me : fuck it, there's no way to talk to these people

Lrellok · 2014-11-15T15:04:56+00:00

We do not believe feminists can be educated becouse we where feminists.

The post below is largely correct, feminism is zealots and followers, or more specificly shills and marks. It is a motte and bailey docterine, the problem being most feminists do not themselves know this.

Until a given feminist realizes that feminism is a motte and bailey, and decided she does want equality, nothing you do will help.

Meistermalkav · 2014-11-15T11:01:08+00:00

You cannot change a feminist.

You cannot change anybody against their will, reeducate them, or the likes.

The only change can come from within ones self.

xNOM · 2014-11-15T05:09:11+00:00

That is a good question.

guywithaccount · 2014-11-15T16:40:59+00:00

If they could be educated, they'd probably be here now.

There's still a chance that some life event will change their perspective, but until then they're not going to listen to what we say.

Wandering_Saint · 2014-11-16T07:50:02+00:00

Ever since the beginning of human sentience, our perception (the way we understand and see the world) began to develop before we were born. As we grow older, our perception hardens, as ideas, beliefs, morals, joys, hatreds, prejudices, and assumptions are set in stone. The perceptions of children are the most malleable, they can be formed and shaped however anyone chooses.

The perceptions, the reality of younger teens are a bit more hardened, but an open-minded teenager will still allow themselves to consider other avenues. They have not subconsciously closed off their mind. To them, if I may use a crude reference, they perceive the sky to be purple. If they keep an open mind about it, and haven't based parts of their personality around the fact that the sky is purple, they are more easily swayed by one telling them that the sky actually is blue.

As people grow older, their perception, the reality in which they live, think, consider, and have grown comfortable in, is less and less malleable. Especially in our society, we are taught (rather, conditioned) to believe that anyone who thinks differently than ourselves is a person we don't want to interact with much (Democrats and republicans, religious folk and athiests, reds vs blues, ect ect.)

Many of us here are familiar with what I like to call the 'red pill' effect (based, of course, off the matrix.) Our minds, at one point, were open enough to consider something that went against our perception. We were brave enough to allow our perceptual barrier (our wall of reality, if you will) to be probed with a new idea. When this new idea found flaw in this said barrier, those of us with open minds recognized this, and allowed that idea to morph that barrier and become a part of our perception.

Those who are more dependant on the fact that they perceive their reality as flawless will react with disdain, even hostility toward anything (be it a website, a paper, a person) who conveys an idea to challenge that reality. We are surrounded with examples. If you do not support American wars, you are unpatriotic. If you do not support feminism, you are sexist. If you speak out against racial injustice against white people, you are racist.

We cannot blame these people. They truly are the unfortunate products of parenting/rearing that did not allow, did not encourage, or downright punished free thought and open thinking. The more entrenched the perception of the person is, the more courage, the more willpower it takes to break it and reshape it.

Above all, we must remember that to these people, a perfect, unchanging perception on the world is a great comfort, it is their security blanket, and if it is broken or marred in any way, they will seek to defend it until their will to fight it is gone, or until their mind shuts out everything contrary to what they believe. We cannot force them to see logic and reason, no more than we can force them to walk through a door.

We can only present the facts, we can only show them that door. It is up to them to be brave enough to pass through it.

lordslag1 · 2014-11-15T09:23:15+00:00

You're the exception that makes the rule. And, in general, most people who leave feminism and find the the opposing side is correct, instead of merely becoming neutral on the subject, do so because of an internal shift towards following the evidence and finding the truth. Cracking the feminist brainwashing from the outside seems to be nearly impossible.

thehumungus · 2014-11-15T09:07:50+00:00

because movements need an enemy

Title	With so many subscribers here having previously identified as feminists, why do so many others assume that feminists are impossible to educate?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	18
Comments	42
Date	November 15, 2014 4:10 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2mcol1/with_so_many_subscribers_here_having_previously/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/with-so-many-subscribers-here-having-previously.993401 https://theredarchive.com/post/993401

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