Castration. | PurplePillDebate

rulenumber303 · 2014-05-17T11:16:15+00:00

Getting your tomcat fixed because he pees on the neighbour's doorstep and gets into catfights requiring expensive veterinary care, yay or nay?...

[–]goatismycopilotPurple Pill Woman6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]DenswendThe Swiss Army Knife of Hate3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

As if that would be an argument against something, especially something as precarious as human behaviour and attraction.

As with everything, there can be corruption of it, of this there is no doubt. The most fundamental idea of TRP is to no longer concern yourself with political correctness (because then you'll be buttfucked into oblivion by idiots) and find a safe place for them. Which they did, on a subreddit that is more than open to criticism and that receives a hefty share of it - some of them legitimate, most of it not. They did listen to the advice and the overall response to it is positive. Will TRP work everywhere in every culture? No. But does it work now? Certainly.

The most fundamental advice is basic self sufficiency - stop pedalistazing pussy. This is something I find no problem with, but I understand why women (especially radfems) would, as sexual power is one form of manipulation against men no matter how much they deny it. The other is to stop being taken advantage of unfairly. And start lifting. Over this, everyone agrees on TRP. Their discussion on "game" might vary, their opinions might vary from moderate to extreme (as if there is no group guilty of this, especially their opposite) and when you compare extreme opinions, you'll find that they're quite tame.

[–]cuittlerಠ_ಠ3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

As if that would be an argument against something, especially something as precarious as human behaviour and attraction.

"You're not doing it right" is a response I often see from commenters when a guy is talking about a bad reaction to using something from TRP. So yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at.

As with everything, there can be corruption of it, of this there is no doubt.

TRP originally came from shit, no offense. No corruption is going to make it worse than it started out. The sidebar material is full of stuff that's been continually quoted and upvoted but every time someone pulls out a particularly abusive quote or tactic suddenly it's like "oh that's just clickbait no one takes that seriously..." Then why does it remain sidebar material? Why continue to associate with it at all?

The most fundamental idea of TRP is to no longer concern yourself with political correctness (because then you'll be buttfucked into oblivion by idiots) and find a safe place for them.

I thought TRP was just 'dating strategy', not a movement or ideology?

But does it work now? Certainly.

Does it work? Why isn't this huge news on mass media then? If it could solve all dating problems why hasn't everyone adopted it already?

The most fundamental advice is basic self sufficiency

I thought it was not to be politically correct?

stop pedalistazing pussy.

If you had just said women instead of a sexual slur I might be able to take you seriously. This is why I don't think you're here to debate. If women are just 'pussy' to you how can I take a word you say in good faith? I happen to also believe women shouldn't be pedestalized, there could have been common ground there. Not using slurs may be too PC for you but it helps if you want to be taken seriously.

This is something I find no problem with, but I understand why women (especially radfems) would, as sexual power is one form of manipulation against men no matter how much they deny it.

...do you seriously think grown men and women sit around trying to cook up schemes to keep men down with vaginas?

[–]Denswend4 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So yeah, that's the kind I was getting at

Like your topic linking TRP and abuse? TRP is a tool and like a tool it can be used by bad people or good people. The man in your topic was abusive asshole, and it wasn't TRP that caused it. It was most likely that he was disturbed from the start. TRP does not approve of this, as this results in necessary moral outburst that only comes with bad things.

The sidebar material is full of stuff that's been continually quoted and upvoted but every time someone pulls out a particularly abusive quote or tactic suddenly it's like "oh that's just clickbait no one takes that seriously..."

Like what. Pull one for me. Pull a whole lot for me actually, to prove that it's not just a stray hate that is found everywhere.

I thought TRP was just a dating strategy?

It is. It's one that doesn't concern with political correctness. As with all strategies, it needs to be discussed.

Does it work? Why isn't this huge news on mass media then?

Oh boy here we come. First off, lifting is a common advice given to men. It improves physical appearance. This isn't huge news on mass media because everyone knows it already. Are you seriously going to argue that?

Secondly, why do you assume that mass media would be quite to pick it up the second it forms? And it actually was picked up, back when TRP didn't exist by Neil Strauss which was covered in mass media.

Thirdly, take a look at the main characters of romantic literature (we know this is porn for chicks), specifically the popular ones who are read by women of all ages - 50 Shades of Grey and Twilight. Oh shit, he uses 50SoG and Twilight to make an argument, what a moron - There is a reason these books are popular, popular among women, and it's not their literary style.

If it could solve all dating problems why hasn't everyone adopted it already?

TRP membership is growing, and thankyouTRP is flourishing. Take from that what you will.

I thought it was not to be politically correct?

Not mutually exclusive.

If you had just said women instead of a sexual slur I might be able to take you seriously.

I said what I meant and I would say it again. There is a fine difference between pedalistalizing pussy and pedalistalizing women, and you show that you do not understand difference between those pussy (a vulgar slang for vagina) and women. People who are the "nice guys" usually do the former, but they mask it with niceness to appear to pedalistalizing women.

This is why I don't think you're here to debate.

Neither are you, you gave no concrete evidence to prove what you're saying, you just said it like it was the most natural thing ever. Your only argument is "TRP is shit because it's shit", your other argument is a baseless accusation that I think that all women are simply vaginas when it's quite clear that it's you who doesn't make the difference.

If women are just 'pussy' to you how can I take a word you say in good faith?

You don't take a word I say in good faith ever. You check it out, you call me out for logical incosistencies and insults - we're debating, not praying.

I happen to also believe women shouldn't be pedestalized, there could have been common ground there.

There isn't one. I believe that some women should be pedastalized, and to your huge surprise, it's a thought that's shared among TRP. Women who go against their nature when it would hurt people, women who stick with the men they love even when they can easily jump the ship, women who are more than vaginas to be used (surprise surprise, women can be this too). You know why they should be pedalistalized? Because the act of putting one on a pedastal shows an example that is to be followed. When you pedalistalize cunts (another sexual slur), everyone will want to be one.

Not using slurs may be too PC for you but it helps if you want to be taken seriously.

Any argument you see should be first be stripped of any emotional rhetoric (baw, TRP is evil because some are bad and even though the general consensus towards them is bad on TRP, they're bad, bad) and judged on its own merit. If you are incapable of doing that, and instead need safe language (seriously, taken serious on fucking reddit of all places?) to take something seriously, then it shows your limited mental capacity and emotional fragility.

...do you seriously think grown men and women sit around trying to cook up schemes to keep men down with vaginas?

How do you infer that I suppose a shadowy conspiracy from all women to enslave men with vaginas? This is just plain jumping to conclusions, but let me give you a short and easily understandable summary.

Women have vaginas
Men want sex more than women (there is gilded post in here that draws from this)
Women end up using sex as a means of having power over men

Do you seriously want to debate this? Why the hell is women prostitution so widespread, but there is little to no male prostitution?

To idiot who "expands on your point"

He said something true, but ultimately inapplicable. TRP does not approve of women hating not because it is the decree of political correctness, but because blaming entire gender for your experience is a sign of weakness, something that men can't do.

There is a post, titled "I don't hate women, but I don't respect them either" which is gilded, stickied, and generally got good feedback. Not respecting something is hardly grinding it into the dirt or throwing it away completely.

[–]duckducklandwhale2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]cuittler0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Like your topic linking TRP and abuse?

No, the point of that was to discern whether the behavior being lauded by the rp poster was also approved of by trp as a whole.

All this is in the sidebar

Men have been, and should be, the more dominant gender, not because of some imagined divine right or physical prowess, but because on some rudimentary psychological level we ought to realized that a woman’s love is contingent upon our capacity to maintain that love in spite of a woman’s hypergamy. By order of degrees, hypergamy will define who a woman loves and who she will not, depending upon her own opportunities and capacity to attract it.

So men should be dominant because women are only capable of loving a man as much as her hypergamy allows. No sources or scientific method involved with that conculsion either.

The reason why women stop maturing at around the age of eighteen also has to do with their biological destiny as child-bearers and caretakers of children.

Women apparently stop maturing. How exactly does that happen? Do neurons cease to form at age 18, barring women from ably noting and reflecting on life experiences, possibly gaining wisdom and knowledge and maturity? This is so ludicrous.

Edit: I'm not going to post all of the material based off hypergamy or any other flawed concepts lacking in data. Until they can be proven with the scientific method, they're just hearsay.

[–]Denswend1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, the point of that was to discern whether the behavior being lauded by the rp poster was also approved of by trp as a whole.

And the point was missed and quickly delved into TRP bashing. They didn't laud the behaviour, they even denounced it openly when they learned of it. The reason for "cherry picking" is to demonstrate how women are quick to dismiss something that they gave the consent to as a fucking crime.

Men should be dominant

No. Men are naturally dominant. The reason for this? Hormones. Hypergamy is a part of woman's nature, much like polygamy is a part of man's nature. To say that we can go against our nature is to say that we can stop being humans themselves. But that is going straight into philosophy. Actually it went straight into the realm of philosophy when something as metaphysical as love came in play. Besides, it has been demonstrated that women are attracted to higher social status. Do you need proof on that?

Women apparently stop maturing

This article features Schopenhauer heavily, a man who was philosopher and the article does not even try to biologically explain itself. To them, maturity differs from what you'd consider maturity. You can accumulate experience and knowledge, but you can't mature past a certain age. This is why the concept of child soldiers was so appealing to Pentagon and SSSR back in the day. Because if you can hone a child when it is still maturing, you can get something very very good.

If you seriously suggest that there is no neurological difference in a man's and a woman's growth, then you've got some serious reading/watching and watching some more to do. Ironically, this is all on the evil and vile sidebar material.

If this is all you have, compared to the amount of sidebar material, this is quite tame. Now, let's compare misandry that actually goes uncalled as such and to put more insult - these women actually get social praise for it. So not only is the misogyny much more tame in TRP, but misandry is quite more widespread and damaging.

Edit: I'm not going to post all of the material based off hypergamy or any other flawed concepts lacking in data. Until they can be proven with the scientific method, they're just hearsay.

http://www.anthro.utah.edu/PDFs/ec_evolanth.pdf

You are welcome.

[–]cuittler1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They didn't laud the behaviour, they even denounced it openly when they learned of it.

Actually many didn't, and it wasn't until the thread had been up a few days I was able to find one very eloquent comment criticizing it. You can go through my post history or the post itself to find it. I also posted examples of rpers saying she deserved it becasue she stayed with the abuser, and they were the top comments at the time of the thread.

And if you're going to criticize people cherry-picking everyone deserves some including the guy who posted in rp.

hormones

hormones do not explain all the complexities of human society. hormones can tell us how someone fits into the social hierarchy, not why they are in that position. Nevermind that social status can change for reasons entirely unrelated to hormones.

To them, maturity differs from what you'd consider maturity.

I'm unable to find any references to what they actually see as maturity so please explain.

Because if you can hone a child when it is still maturing, you can get something very very good.

Are you kidding? This article is the perfect argument for why men and women are just as able as the other when it comes to using rationality and the mind. Yes there are differences, women have the ability to give birth, men have greater capacity for physical strength. Without these things there would be no human race, but they're genetic relics which will cease to matter when technology makes them defunct. Why is there this material in the sidebar equating women's mental maturity to a teenager's? I don't call this mild or tame at all, it's incredibly ignorant and insulting.

And thanks for the article but I still don't see how it proves women can't love or be dominant because a man with good looks, resources and health is more attractive than a guy who doesn't have those. That's just common sense in mating, it doesn't make women 'hypergamous sluts' as trp is so fond of saying.

[–]Denswend2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Actually many didn't, and it wasn't until the thread had been up a few days I was able to find one very eloquent comment criticizing it.

I've seen the thread and the topic. It's more filled with people baffled at how she actually stayed with him than people who get off on abuse.

I also posted examples of rpers saying she deserved it becasue she stayed with the abuser, and they were the top comments at the time of the thread.

I am now going through your history.

Also notice how she never actually dumped him. She subtly tries to hide this fact, but even after all that "abuse" she still intended on getting back with him. She still called. She still planned on reaching out to him at the end.

Is this true? It most certainly is. He isn't going to dance around that fact.

Treat girl like absolute garbage for five years, Unlimited sex, Total control in relationship, Relationship over? Nothing lost. No consequences.

Again, also true.

There is one post that actually applauds him for the behaviour. And not for the entire abusive behaviour as your post would have you believe, but the concept of "If you don't give me sex, get out of my house". I'd hardly call that abusive behaviour.

And in the same post you show that there are people who disagree with it. And then there's me who disagrees with it (an endorsed contributor too) and Archwing (EC too) who does as well. Not quite a cess pool of misogyny.

Oh, and the second post responding to Zacksid

Dude's actions were totally reprehensible but there he is getting rewarded by girls for it.

Criticizing people cherry picking

There is a difference in saying that people collectivelly endorse abuse when in fact they don't and saying that TRP is overflowing with misogyny because you've found one article that says that women are mentally immature (holy shit the misogyny is killing me). How about this, you'll link the entire topic for all to see, then we judge.

Hormones do not explain all the complexities of human society

Not them, but the rest of biology does. It's called evolutionary biology. This is why, men occupy 90 percent of positions of power, despite society being democratic where everyone's vote is equally valid (and women are slightly numerous than men) and everyone has equal chance for candidacy (hello Hillary). Biological approximations (or if you want to be so very tolerant - biotruths) do explain why something happens like it happens.

I'm unable to find any references to what they actually see as maturity so please explain.

I'm unable to find that neurons cease to form at age 18, barring women from ably noting and reflecting on life experiences, possibly gaining wisdom and knowledge and maturity.

But here, from Schop himself, bolded in that article : Man reaches the maturity of his reasoning and mental faculties scarcely before he is eight and twenty; woman when she is eighteen so this implies a sort of upper limit on maturity that is reached.

Are you kidding? This article is the perfect argument for why men and women are just as able as the other when it comes to using rationality and the mind.

No one is denying ability to use rationality. But this article is hardly a perfect argument for it, considering her upbringing and considering that she may easily be considered outlier due to her genetic stock. You want to look for proof that men and women are just as equally capable? You look at statistics. Because women and men are biologically very different and have different preferences to a set science. This is why physics is dominated by men, and biology by women. Does this mean that one gender is inferior? Not at all. People are not equally capable, but their capabilities are equally valuable.

Yes there are differences, women have the ability to give birth, men have greater capacity for physical strength.

Sigh.. I don't want to C/P what I wrote about Human Neurological Uniformity and how it does not work in reality so watch this.

I'm not going to post all of the material based off hypergamy or any other flawed concepts lacking in data. Until they can be proven with the scientific method, they're just hearsay.

That's just common sense in mating, it doesn't make women 'hypergamous sluts' as trp is so fond of saying.

Okay. Hypergamy is common sense in mating, but it's also a hearsay not proven by scientific method?

[–]accacaaccaca3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Denswend2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Oh, that's actually a fair point.

So instead of making a generalization about genders, you treat everyone as individual unrelated to the gender the belong to?

Let's work on this.

So essentially, despite being physiologically different, gender plays no role in neurology? Let's for the sake of brevity, call this Human Neurological Uniformity (HNU). If the HNU was a real and tangible concept, then distribution of men and women between different modes of behaviour and different ways of expressing themselves would be in such a manner that it could be impossible to infer any sort of stereotype - for example that physics is a "male" science, and that biology is a "female" science because they are dominated by their respective gender. If we could roughly approximate that a majority of men prefer X activity as opposed to Y activity, while a majority of women prefer Y activity as opposed to X activity, then the very concept of HNU would be moot - as we now have a difference in obvious preference. Are there going to be any outliers? Yes, they're a biological reality (cause Mother Nature likes to gamble - mutations and like) and statistical necessity.

Other possible way would be that there exists some form of cultural barrier that stops men and women from doing their less preffered activity. Let's once again, work on that. Let's use the engineer example all around the word. If there was a cultural barrier (radfems like to call it Patriarchy) it is possible that the intensity of it might vary. Some societies might be more patriarchal (for example India) and some less patriarchal (for example Sweden). There exists a scale of measurement called "Gender Equality" and Sweden ranks the best, while Iran is quite below it.

So if the more we remove this cultural barrier, the more "equal" would distribution of men and women be for certain activities.

Patriarchy - 0% women in X, 100% men in X Less patriarchy - 30% women in X, 70% men in X Gender equality - 50% of women in X, 50% of men in X

This is not the case. In Iran (a more patriarchal society) 70% of women are engineers. In Norway, 10% of women. Your numbers might vary. So essentially, the more gender equal society becomes, the more people are conforming to the stereotype.

So this once again, shits all on the theory of HNU.

If you want an air of legitimacy around it, interviews with actual scientists about it, here it is. Glad you asked for legitimate research from legitimate scientists.

And now let's go with research that says that women want masculine men while ovulating, feminine men while not. Regardless of your cultural definitions of masculinity, the professor in here links masculinity with the amount of testosterone, a biological hormone and not a social construct. This proves that there is a form of discrimination that women do when picking mates. Since testosterone is essentially a principal male hormone, an androgen (literary, creates man) and found where little in women to make a difference, this form of discrimination is unique to women.

Thus, women have unique way of picking partners that men cannot reciprocate.

There, legitimate research provided.

[–]accacaaccaca0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Not the person you replied to but I'll have a go at replying to this

So instead of making a generalization about genders, you treat everyone as individual unrelated to the gender the belong to?

Yes. I judge people based on my interactions with them and their interactions with other people I know. Some men are twats, so are some women. Call me naive, but I feel that you should not assume bad things about people until proven otherwise.

So essentially, despite being physiologically different, gender plays no role in neurology? Let's for the sake of brevity, call this Human Neurological Uniformity (HNU). If the HNU was a real and tangible concept, then distribution of men and women between different modes of behaviour and different ways of expressing themselves would be in such a manner that it could be impossible to infer any sort of stereotype - for example that physics is a "male" science, and that biology is a "female" science because they are dominated by their respective gender. If we could roughly approximate that a majority of men prefer X activity as opposed to Y activity, while a majority of women prefer Y activity as opposed to X activity, then the very concept of HNU would be moot - as we now have a difference in obvious preference. Are there going to be any outliers? Yes, they're a biological reality (cause Mother Nature likes to gamble - mutations and like) and statistical necessity.

Yes. Women and Men have brains that are wired in slightly different ways, however in tests at a young age males and females perform equally to each other up until puberty at which point the genders start to diverge slightly. The question which we still have no bearing on is how much of how our brain ends up is genetic and how much is due to our environment. Until we can do that, trying to justify things in terms of biology is pointless as it could be as much to do with how people try to bring up different genders, for example as a kid I was giving knex to use whilst at the same age, my sister got a barbie. Guess which one of us is more inclined towards practical things (although we both did STEM majors, she headed towards the theoretical/mathematical side whilst I tended towards the lab side).

Other possible way would be that there exists some form of cultural barrier that stops men and women from doing their less preferred activity. Let's once again, work on that. Let's use the engineer example all around the word. If there was a cultural barrier (radfems like to call it Patriarchy) it is possible that the intensity of it might vary. Some societies might be more patriarchal (for example India) and some less patriarchal (for example Sweden). There exists a scale of measurement called "Gender Equality" and Sweden ranks the best, while Iran is quite below it.

So if the more we remove this cultural barrier, the more "equal" would distribution of men and women be for certain activities. Patriarchy - 0% women in X, 100% men in X Less patriarchy - 30% women in X, 70% men in X Gender equality - 50% of women in X, 50% of men in X. This is not the case. In Iran (a more patriarchal society) 70% of women are engineers. In Norway, 10% of women. Your numbers might vary. So essentially, the more gender equal society becomes, the more people are conforming to the stereotype. So this once again, shits all on the theory of HNU.

I'm going to assume you've made a mistake with the numbers or word order here. If what you say is true then Iran would have more engineers than most of the world put together. The thing is what you're effectively arguing that a large number of people should want to go into a field where they will be seen as outsiders. I would attribute the difference to cultural differences. We are constantly told that Engineering is a masculine field, pretty much every time engineering is mentioned it is shown as something men do. On the internet, it is commonly seen as "a sausage fest" which is hardly an atmosphere conducive to women going into. Basically most people won't go into an environment where they'll be seen as an outsider and thus the cycle of gender underrepresentation continues.

If you want an air of legitimacy around it, interviews with actual scientists about it, here it is[1] . Glad you asked for legitimate research from legitimate scientists. And now let's go with research that says that women want masculine men while ovulating, feminine men while not[2] . Regardless of your cultural definitions of masculinity, the professor in here links masculinity with the amount of testosterone, a biological hormone and not a social construct. This proves that there is a form of discrimination that women do when picking mates. Since testosterone is essentially a principal male hormone, an androgen (literary, creates man) and found where little in women to make a difference, this form of discrimination is unique to women.

Can you provide me a link to the papers that these scientists have published so far in these fields so I can have a look at them?

In regards to the article you've linked, the researchers defined masculine as meaning attractive. Evolutionarily this would make sense as it means that you get the most attractive mate so the best genes get passed on. It also goes on to say that looks matter less when they aren't ovulating, i.e. they're looking at the long term not short term.

On a side note, women also have testosterone (admittedly in 1/10 of the amounts) so the word androgen is misleading.

Thus, women have unique way of picking partners that men cannot reciprocate.

There, legitimate research provided.

I fail to see how this is linked. I'm guessing it's to do with how female attraction varies at different points in time. I certainly find different things attractive dependant on how I'm feeling, so I don't see this as the big difference that you claim it to be.. Also legitimate research would be linking to the paper itself not to a video and a newspaper article.

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Title	Castration.
Author	rulenumber303
Upvotes	1
Comments	51
Date	May 17, 2014 11:16 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/25s9m3/castration/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/castration.285729 https://theredarchive.com/post/285729

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