Transgenderism

AshleyYakeley · 2014-09-26T04:31:07+00:00

Slightly off-topic, but I've noticed that the only two groups who genuinely value femininity are gender traditionalists such as Red Pill, and trans women. So there's something you have in common...

hyperrreal · 2014-09-26T01:37:21+00:00

I can't say I'm too familiar with trans issues and the literature around it. And yeah it's a real phenomena seems pretty hard to dispute that.

As for having sex with a trans-woman that didn't disclose, no I wouldn't consider that rape. I might feel mislead or uncomfortable that they weren't upfront with me, but I don't feel that they would have raped me.

homo_homini_lupus · 2014-09-26T02:13:03+00:00

It is not rape. it is fraud in the inducement.

[deleted] · 2014-09-26T15:07:12+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SirNemesis · 2014-09-26T01:07:13+00:00

A. It's real. Not really on my radar though. Arguably, that's how it should be, since trans-people are for all practical purposes ordinary members of society, except when it comes to dating and the fact that they were once the other sex during their childhood.

B. I think it's ridiculous to say that people born male will not benefit from such things as skeletal structure and hormonal balance during development. I see this as an instance of "scientists" catering to social activists rather than scientific truth. Kind of like those social science people in Europe who claim that being a "parent" is socially determined, and genes have nothing to do with it, thus justifying the ban on paternity testing. At least these "scientists" are doing their fraudulent research for social activists rather than big corporations, as the tobacco people did.

C. Rape? No. Only certain forms of deception are rape imo (specifically, pretending to be someone's SO, failing to disclose the presence of an STD, and pretending to be on birth control - at least as long as men are on the hook for child support). People lie all the time to get sex, and most of these lies should not be classified as rape. That said, if I had sex with someone and I later found out that she was trans, I'd be extremely angry and vengeful, as she neglected to disclose this very important information to me. Such an action on her part, while not rape, would be deeply unethical.

soylentblueissmurfs · 2014-09-26T04:42:56+00:00

A. Of course it's real. It's not always a clear cut case if gender reassignment is the best way to go though, I know one person who started the transition and then changed her mind and one who wasn't allowed to by his psychiatrist and now seems to have embraced a masculine role. One of my closest friends that I sometimes sleep with recently told me she consider herself a man and have for over a decade. Intellectually I can accept it but emotionally I have a hard time and I don't think I will till she starts with the treatment and visually changes.

B. It should be up to the sport wether it's fair or not. There is a reason men and women compete in different leagues and even with hormone therapy etc. the body won't change fully.

C. I think it would depend on the extent of the deception, if I was drunk off my ass and hooked up with a secret transsexual I'd probably laugh it off but if we had some more serious intimate fucking I'd probably feel angry and violated. I don't think it should be classified as rape legally, if it is a huge social problem perhaps its own form of crime.

homo_homini_lupus · 2014-09-26T01:50:16+00:00

this information due to it having no physical impact on the other person

This shows a demented conception of male nature and is going to lead to the imminent murders of many transgenders if it becomes common

ElderSign · 2014-09-26T06:02:42+00:00

A. I don't "get" transsexualism. It's a bit like how I view quantum tunneling. I know it exists, I don't think there's a moral component to it, I know there are practical applications using the knowledge to improve peoples' lives, but I won't even pretend to understand it, and to be completely honest it kind of freaks me out.

B. I'll trust the majority of medical experts if they say that surgery and two years of hormones is on average enough to put a transwoman-athlete on the same level as a ciswoman-athlete, physical performance -wise. My guess would have been longer or never and I won't be surprised if those experts are eventually proved wrong, but we should go by the current consensus.

C. I wouldn't consider it rape and wouldnt' care. However, it's all sorts of assholery to withhold information that has a good chance of changing a person's opinion of an encounter so drastically.

exit_sandman · 2014-09-26T06:11:29+00:00

A. I consider transsexuality real, and a body dismorphism disorder if not treated (i.e. surgery), and I actually can't imagine someone go through all the hassle that comes with it just for shits and giggles - their lives are complicated enough as it is and I assume they don't need people questioning their condition.

B. Hard to say since I am not familiar with this, but it's problematic. An FtM athlete (example) would probably blow all female competition out of the water if he's fit enough for the discipline at hand (due to medical reasons, the guy in my example picture isn't); while probably not able to compete with born male athletes. An MtF athlete on the other hand would be in a comparable limbo, but if you already have female TG athletes reliably winning against men in contests (like Parinya Charoenphol for example), you can imagine how born females would fare.

C. Rape might be a strong word, but since I don't really feel physical disgust when it comes to transgendered people, I wouldn't go postal because of it. Someone who does, however, might do exactly that. And I would consider it an informtation that's certainly important enough to disclose it before the first date simply because there are people who wouldn't date a transsexual (or have a relationship with one) and should know beforehand that they're about to go on exactly that.

FullRedvolution · 2014-09-26T12:25:55+00:00

I consider it extremely deceptive but maybe not exactly rape, since fundamentally a trans person is still biologically just a man with a mutilated penis. I would probably beat the shit out of a dude for tricking me like that.

[deleted] · 2014-09-26T17:20:07+00:00

As far as Red Pill, Blue Pill, and Purple Pill, whatever gender you ID as, the gender rules and roles will always apply.

If you had sex with someone that looked, sounded, and felt like the gender you are attracted to, but later found out they are biologically the other sex just with surgery to appear as the other

Either I have a really good eye, that sounds impossible, or that's a really good doctor. I have never met a MtF trans that I was not able to identify as trans. Although, I have met a FtM trans that I was not able to identify as trans, but that didn't really bother me because I'm not interested in men. If he was naked maybe I would've noticed - I think cock and balls are much harder to construct, if not completely impossible.

As far as your A & B questions...

A. It's real and I don't really care or think about it much.

B. I don't think trans people should be excluded from the Olympics.

duckducklandwhale · 2014-09-26T21:59:33+00:00

A. Live and let live. Im not a big advocate and Im definitely not rushing to Vote Yes on any of their propositions or lobbying for them. If they get shit done themselves cool. It's super fucking weird to me irregardless. But whatever just dont bother me. Dont decieve me. It's definitely real as determined by science in the current mindset. I think of it as issues in the head though.

B. I feel they should be excluded. Especially if they are late transitioners. They can make a third division or separate league if so, but I personally believe you just dont lose you +3 advantage in the physical domain like that.

C. It's not rape. Unless Im lampooning how feminists call everything rape. :D It is super deceptive. Which is why I never care for trans that get beat up or killed after the fact of doing that. They know very well how wider society feel about them and how some peoples inability to handle that leads to anger.

stickfiguresk · 2014-09-26T08:17:39+00:00

A. The most fundamental, what are your thoughts on trans people? Since it is a condition that can be diagnosed and treated (with hormone therapy and otherwise), I'm not sure if it's possible to discount it being real without making it sound like a global conspiracy by psychologists not to dissimilar to how creationists view the scientific community surrounding evolution. However, if you do wish to claim that it isn't real, I would gladly read any literature you have to present.

I believe that many people are convinced that they're born special/disadvantaged, but I refuse to acknowledge it myself. I see homosexuals as feminine men. That's it. I see trannys as surgery fetishists, which I find unfortunate, to think your body isnt good enough... I have no literature on my view, but you're welcome to ask questions.

Also, whatever makes you happy, I fully support, so long as it doesn't harm others.

Do you dispute this criteria and believe that trans athletes (specifically MtF) should be excluded or not?

I don't know, and dont really care. I find Joe Rogan's stance on this compelling.

If you had sex with someone that looked, sounded, and felt like the gender you are attracted to, but later found out they are biologically the other sex just with surgery to appear as the other, do you consider that rape?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, I may be down for whatever, lol. That being said, yes, it's fucking shady. BDSM communities have specific code on forcing your kink on others and you're violating the shit out of it. You're probably bringing psychological harm on to people. But rape(pun not intended), no, not unless you're convicted of such, simply because that term is thrown around too often by professional victims. And I don't really use the term very often myself.

Title	Transgenderism
Author	corigames
Upvotes	4
Comments	61
Date	September 26, 2014 12:14 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2hhcxa/transgenderism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/transgenderism.284764 https://theredarchive.com/post/284764

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