Why does toxic masculinity not take sexual dimorphism into account?

Littleknownfacts · 2018-06-24T17:10:35+00:00

At the moment, sexually dimorphism makes men taller, and stronger.

Neither of those are considered toxic masculinity. Not all dimorphic traits are considered toxic masculinity. Women who complain about toxic masculinity believe it stems from controllable behavior, and not inherited genetics.

Gravel_Roads · 2018-06-24T17:08:47+00:00

Humans already do this, honestly. Physiologically, humans are very similar between the genders, vs say... birds, who look wildly different between males and females where the Y chromosome carries a lot more information to distinguish them.

blackedoutfast · 2018-06-24T17:29:42+00:00

if women over time selected for men who exhibited fewer sexually dimorphic traits,

the whole reason sexual dimorphism exists is because larger males have a reproductive advantage in male vs male sexual competition. a larger male has a better chance of defeating his sexual rivals than a smaller, genetically inferior male.

there is also additional female motivation for wanting a larger male mate: it increases the likelihood that her own sons will be larger and more reproductively successful, and a larger mate will be more able to protect and provide for her and her offspring.

what is up with all of these thinly veiled incel threads lately? all this hypothetical wishful thinking about some magically way to "fix society" that just oh so coincidentally involves making women having sex with genetically inferior males

Salty-Bastard · 2018-06-24T17:11:07+00:00

Harrison Bergeron where are you?

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BisquitBill · 2018-06-24T17:44:45+00:00

It just seems like the vest way to get rid of toxic masculinity and equality between the genders is to reduce the amount of physiological and biological differences between the genders.

The very best way to get rid of toxic masculinity is to treat men as human beings with a range of emotions, but that would mean acknowledging that men are human beings.

2-3-or-not-2-3 · 2018-06-24T18:48:14+00:00

So to remove toxic masculinity the argument is to eliminate all masculinity?

SilentLurker666 · 2018-06-24T18:49:32+00:00

It just seems like the vest way to get rid of toxic masculinity and equality between the genders is to reduce the amount of physiological and biological differences between the genders.

Typical Leftist fantasy ideas... can you really enforce the two genders to be rid of their gender identities, how would one achieve in doing that, and what's the moral implications of doing these things? Would you force male boys to cut off their testosterone by cutting off their balls or take estrogen supplement?

At the moment, sexually dimorphism makes men taller, and stronger. If women over time selected for men who exhibited fewer sexually dimorphic traits, then that would be a step in the right path towards men and women being equal.

Again.. the flaws of the leftist agenda is showing. In order to enforce "equality", they force men to be shorter and weaker. In doing so society itself would also be shorter and weaker just to accommodate said ideals of dystopian definition of "equality"

Pope_Lucious · 2018-06-24T19:02:11+00:00

Toxic masculinity is just a new term for feminists to use to express their thinly veiled hatred for men.

I use it as a screen for morons.

BiggerDthanYou · 2018-06-24T19:36:18+00:00

At the moment, sexually dimorphism makes men taller, and stronger. If women over time selected for men who exhibited fewer sexually dimorphic traits, then that would be a step in the right path towards men and women being equal.

Being tall isn't toxic masculinity. The idea that a man that isn't tall is not a real man would be toxic masculinity.

If you had at least tried to inform yourself what the concept you are arguing against means you would have noticed that they are specifically talking about harmful masculine gender norms, but not about masculinity as a whole.

It's just like "I don't like yellow cars" doesn't mean that I think that all cars are yellow. It means that I don't like yellow cars specifically.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jclp.20105

The term toxic masculinity is useful in discussions about gender and forms of masculinity because it delineates those aspects of hegemonic masculinity that are socially destructive, such as misogyny, homophobia, greed, and violent domination; and those that are culturally accepted and valued (Kupers, 2001).

After all, there is nothing especially toxic in a man’s pride in his ability to win at sports, to maintain solidarity with a friend, to succeed at work, or to provide for his family. These positive pursuits are aspects of hegemonic masculinity, too, but they are hardly toxic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

The concept of toxic masculinity is used in psychology to describe certain traditional male norms of behavior in the United States and Europe that are associated with harm to society and to men themselves. Such "toxic" masculine norms include the traits of dominance, devaluation of women, extreme self-reliance, and the suppression of emotions.

When they complain about "toxic masculinity" they complain specifically about harmful standards that men have to adhere to. For example:

https://www.romper.com/p/9-ways-to-raise-your-son-without-toxic-masculinity-37717

Words have power, and terminology about masculinity can be dangerous. Overtime, hearing phrases like "be a man" or "real men don't cry" sinks into the subconscious. As CNN's Kelly Wallace explained, our culture doesn't do a good job of creating a safe space for boys to express their emotions without the fear of facing ridicule. Doing away with toxic sayings such as these remove the pressure from boys to hide feelings other than anger.

GoingTheDlstance · 2018-06-24T17:14:11+00:00

why would you expect men to agree to drop down to a female's level? Why can't women rise to the occasion ?

ThrashSurf · 2018-06-24T16:59:23+00:00

That's exactly what happens with pair bonding species. And actually women have been for a long time now selecting men to be less sexually dimorphic as humans are overall much less sexually dimorphic than chimps, gorillas, even bonobos and earlier hominids.

https://carta.anthropogeny.org/events/sessions/craniofacial-feminization-canine-and-human-evolution

Title	Why does toxic masculinity not take sexual dimorphism into account?
Author	LooksmaxxedManlet
Upvotes	1
Comments	51
Date	June 24, 2018 4:50 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8tj2nn/why_does_toxic_masculinity_not_take_sexual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-does-toxic-masculinity-not-take-sexual.261791 https://theredarchive.com/post/261791

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