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Televangelis
[–]LifterofThings11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It's sort of happening/happened already. The "do the right thing by the child" rhetoric is pretty pervasive. Some men are (rightfully) pissed off about it. I expect these numbers of pissed off men will continue to swell (rightfully, again)... so I anticipate this paradigm shift will be short-lived.
I can't do the mental gymnastics to justify forcing a dude to pay for a kid that isn't his, that he doesn't want to pay for. At the same time, the kid often ends up suffering in these instances, for its mother's sins which also is a shitty outcome.
Really the only good, just solution that I can think of is to somehow make married broads and the douchers who impregnate them quit being cheaterfilthbags.
... although if I knew how to accomplish THAT, I'd be motherfuckin rich right now.
Sometimes the world just sucks.
[–]Katyara 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And if I can add a footnote to this: I would like to see "Step" parents who have given years of emotional and financial support given more rights and legal backing as well. I am speaking of the ones that know a child isn't biologically 'theirs', step-up and be a parent and do a damn good job at it.
[–]Televangelis[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I can't do the mental gymnastics to justify forcing a dude to pay for a kid that isn't his, that he doesn't want to pay for.
Except that with a nice bit of indoctrination, he recognizes that the kid is his, since he's the one raising it. Dissociating the idea of what's 'yours' from what contains your DNA, and thus recognizing the hierarchy of nurture over nature.
(Again, if this were really so immutable, adoption would be virtually nonexistent.)
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
how many single men attempt to adopt children vs single women?
[–]Futsushi11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
You have to be a troll.
People procreate to pass on their genes. To be the most successful grandparent (evolution style).
Let me go ask my wife to let me impregnate my younger sexy mistress because I want another kid and my wife is past 30, so I need to make sure the kid has the smallest chance possible to have any defects. She should do it right, because she is a great mom and loves kids, who the fuck cares if it is hers.
GTFO
[–]Televangelis[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wouldn't it make substantially more sense for you and your wife to adopt? Again, how do you explain the rising prevalence of adoption?
[–]Futsushi1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
When in your post did you discuss something as equitable as a couple choosing to adopt.
You must be right, adoption is rising because men have a sense of honor and would not expect their wife to raise a child that came from the union of the husband and some other woman.
So, with your original post, you have demonstrated how selfish and shady a woman could be and that men should just live with it and follow that up with a response that shows how awesome and honorable a man is, in spite of the shadiness of the female example you gave.
[–]TempestTcup6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Indoctrination works really well. Look at the complete and total fear of the sun that this nation has. The powers that be have managed to indoctrinate us into believing that saturated fat is bad for us but overly processed cereals are good.
They have managed to indoctrinate the western world into believing that sluts are strong independent women that are taking control of their sexuality and housewives are oppressed doormats yearning to have their shackles removed.
They have managed to convince us that sons should be feminine and daughters should be masculine. All the sitcoms and commercials show strong smart women and weak stupid men.
So sure, what could ever go wrong with doing a little more indoctrination on men? Look how completely happier men are today than they were 50 years ago! /sarcasm
Or, maybe we could indoctrinate the women into not being whores and perhaps utilizing a tiny bit of self control! I know that it is a radical concept, but it might just work!
[–]Katyara 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
housewives are oppressed doormats yearning to have their shackles removed.
Or just being seen as more giving in general. Seriously..isn't trying to push someone who is obviously content, blissful and consensual in their relationship dynamic into a mold that some else thinks is 'better' for them a DIRECT contradiction of pushing for liberation?
Let's be honest. if we slapped a leather collar on ourselves and were given the same treatment e are now, we would have the defense of being 'kink shamed' (That's a bizarre little PC term in of itself)
We shouldn't have to (for those who are uncollared. I know a few in here are)
It's our choice, our lives. Move on. I know.. I know. preaching to the choir. I'm sorry :( Just irritating to have a group that screams "Acceptance!!" to go out of their way to mock and try and poke people that do as they will without harming anyone.
[–]TempestTcup0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You are free to do exactly as we tell you!
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wouldn't the best solution be to indoctrinate men through the culture to stop caring whether the children they raise are their own or not?
European countries like France have already outlawed paternity testing.
You could attempt brainwashing males to that extent. However, I don't think it will work since it's an ingrained instinct into men to be suspicious about adultery, cuckoldry, and the like. Although some men do have fetishes for such but it's a small minority.
[–]Televangelis[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So there's a workable model already for this...
Wouldn't this, if anything, have a minor net lessening on men's suspicions about adultery, cuckoldry, etc., since the 'consequences' would be lower (that is, the cost of having a kid that's not yours would not be seen as being quite as steep)?
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
One of the basic principles of the red pill is that inborn/instinctive sexual behaviors and strategies cannot be erased with social programming, and anti-biological memes and cultures inevitably create misery and failure.
In other words, we expressly reject Tabula Rasa theories and embrace Nativist thinking.
[–]Televangelis[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
...but isn't that empirically false? Look at San Francisco. You have perhaps the greatest conglomeration of people devoted to flaunting what red pill-ers would call "inborn/instinctive sexual behaviors" ever known, and also one of the happiest, most wonderful places on earth.
What modern place could be cited as both a) tending to embrace red pill thinking and b) producing human happiness and human prosperity on anywhere near the scale of San Francisco?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Homosexuality is largely inborn. To use your example, San Francisco is happy because it does not attempt to suppress inborn sexual behaviors via cultural programming: meanwhile, places which force homosexuals to suppress or conceal their nature rank much higher on the misery and failure scale.
[–]Televangelis[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
But the social environment in San Francisco works very hard to suppress behaviors that 'red pill'-ers would traditionally associate with maleness --and yet, that ends up working quite well and not leading to much in the way of unhappiness. A set of cultural behaviors and gender attitudes ends up being much more malleable than something as fundamental to one's being as sexual orientation, if you get into their heads at a young age.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Do you have evidence supporting your assertion that men are happier with their relationships in San Francisco than in more red pill areas of the continental US or compared to the average US male? I say men, and not women, because I'm assuming that women are happier having their sexual strategies supported by the local community and legal system. But that may in fact be false.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not totally sure you're opinion is much of a basis for saying something is "empirically false".
And by the way, there's more to San Francisco encapsulates than SOMA and Haight-Ashbury, oh and don't forget about what the yuppies refer to as the "unpleasantness"
[–]Televangelis[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not saying San Francisco is all sparkles for everyone -- no city is. But if you look at the balance of happiness to unhappiness, it's done the best of pretty much any city in recorded history that hasn't just been a playground for the rich, both in material terms and in terms of happiness borne of unorthodox social systems.
Again, I'm curious to hear of a modern city that's followed your way of thinking and has produced widespread happiness by doing so.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
do people like you never shrink from totalitarianism?
[–]Televangelis[S] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Since when is 'indoctrination' synonymous with 'totalitarianism'? All social conditioning systems have some form of indoctrination at their core.
[–]Katyara 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, you lost me at ..indoctrinate. I understand the word I am just uncomfortable with the concept.
I have personal life experience reason advocating for step parents that are sometimes even better then the biological ones from being a step kid and from a peer perspective. I would love to see these men given more legal rights over the children they raise and loosen the adoption restrictions for them.
I don't think we should ever try to force an idea of 'uncaring' about what is important someone, unless it causes malicious harm.
I guess my answer would be no. There's enough out there that don't care and it's a personal preference.
(edit: missed a word)
[–]HarleyWalker 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Good luck with that. Most of us are hard wired against it and the type of men that allow this stuff are the betas that she doesn't want to have sex with.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
and why would men allow for that and not just stop this bullshit, put the boot down and put women in purdah tomorrow?
[–]alphabetmod2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Because the patriarchy.... oh wait...
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
what amazes is me is that today;s women literally have no conception that they are doing this at male sufferance, that some men are holding OTHER men at gunpoint for them and simply allowing them to destroy western civilization. all the men could convert to islam tomorrow and what big female militia would stop them from learning what "patriarchy" REALLY means in a hurry? or the men holding the othe rmen at gunpoint could go, hey, wtf are we doing? and turn on the women, and then what?
[–]alphabetmod6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That can't happen because contrary to feminist beliefs, men - this might be shocking to some - will lay down their lives to protect the women they love.... whilst simultaneously oppressing them of course.
[–]Reads_Small_Text_Bot1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
whilst simultaneously oppressing them of course.
[–]jakethesnake760 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This......
[–]Televangelis[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Accepting, for a moment, the premise of your question (which I don't): urban elites wouldn't allow them to. The 'men' you're referring to are in fact largely a suburban and rural subset of men with disproportionately low power to determine the rules of social institutions. (The dominance of urban elites over our socio-cultural institutions is really one of the greatest things we have going for us as a country.)
Same reason your "the menfolk could convert to [radical] Islam" hypothetical below couldn't happen.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
you are speaking to someone who believes our urban elites dont have anything wrong with them that a few guillotines and heads on pikes couldnt fix
if the blue collar men the urban elites pay to enforce their regime decide to turn against them tomorrow, how would this effete, unarmed, urban elite stop them? you believe the cops and soldiers of even the most elite zip codes adhere to the elites belief system? you brahmins have created a kshatriya caste out of people you loathe, take care they dont come to truly understand your contempt for them any time soon
[+]Televangelis[S] -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Your impotent rage is adorable.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Good argument
[–]TempestTcup1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Are we tired of playing with him yet? He can go back to his clothing fetish.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
lol
[–]Katyara 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, this mental image is now playing in my mind. :D
TempestTcup goes all "Evil" Willow..
[–]TempestTcup1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hahaha, hilarious!
Not as much as your dishonorable escape route into 'condescension' when addressed and engaged directly.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
If a single mom is having difficulty finding a provider, perhaps that is the reward for bad behavior (chasing douchebags/deadbeats). The more children 'provider males' have with women will lead to having more total providers in society in general, to everyone's benefit. Subsidizing the bad behavior of men or women is just a bad idea.
But why are you focused exclusively on hypothetically brainwashing males and not females as well? Are these noncommittal males truly the best DNA for the modern era anyway, where mental tasks are more important than how much weight you can lift or how fast you can run? Are we all still running on human software that was written for us 100,000 years ago or more that has little bearing on modern society? If humans hope to continue adapt, evolve, and improve ourselves, I doubt subsidizing bad behavior in males or females will get us where we'd like to be going. Nature is not kind, it is not brutal, it just is.
[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
The red pill is about accepting innate tendencies.
A woman's innate tendencies tell her to get the highest quality sperm, and secure resources.
A man's innate tendencies tell him to provide for his family and offspring.
Men are only programmed to care about providing and protecting their own children. We can no more teach them to care about other people's children then we could teach them to sexually lust after fat and traditionally unattractive women. Can a man care about someone else's child? I'm sure that it happens all the time, but a lot of men aren't able to do that, and for the ones that are, I'm sure it's not the same. It's really not that hard to imagine, women are not too different as they normally prefer the option of raising their own kids as well.
[–]Televangelis[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Men are only programmed to care about providing and protecting their own children.
Which is where cultural indoctrination to change the definition of one's "own" children comes in.
We can no more teach them to care about other people's children then we could teach them to sexually lust after fat and traditionally unattractive women.
What constitutes a 'fat' woman has varied massively across time, across cultures, and across sub-groups within a population.
[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not cultural, it's basic survival instincts 101. People and animals take care of their own off spring to ensure their genetic survival. There are some species of animals (including humans) that will also care for offspring unrelated to them, to ensure the survival as a species (in addition to their own unique survival), but that's secondary to ensuring their own genetic lineage.
Not as much as you think.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
No it doesnt. fat is a red Herring, .7 waist-hip ratio is what matters
[–]TempestTcup2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
We'll just indoctrinate men into liking fat sluts! That's the ticket!
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Why don't we just legally enslave men and not bother with the effort of indoctrination. Who cares what they want anyway
I'm with you on that one. We can use them as playthings and a source of food.
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