Dare vs Deer, one of the O.G. legendary posts from the red pill. I have some bones to pick with this post though, and I thought a discussion would be interesting.

https://www.forums.red/p/TheRedPill/4349/talking_with_women_always_dare_never_deer

I want to first start by picking apart the "Explain" vs "Deflect" categories, "Explain" being a sin and "Deflect" being an archangel.

Assume your girlfriend is a fitness coach, her job is literally to know fitness. Teach form and all to clients day in and day out. And you're you, you spend 2 hours in the gym every day and workout hard, but still she has you beat.

She says to you "Why are you doing squats that way".

Lets use "Deflect"

You: "Why aren't you doing squats this way."

Her: Because its the wrong way, your form is wrong in x,y,z fashion, I'm literally a fitness instructor.

You: Well, you should have read the textbooks harder.

Her: I aced all my exams, and studied rigorous textbooks extensively about the topic. You watch some dumbass on YouTube. (assume she is right).

You: *Squats the same way anyway and ignores her*

At the end of the day, deflecting doesn't work. Sure you impose the fact that you're "uncontrollable" and you're own boss. But you're a fucking retard. I know when I was a kid there was shit I definitely did know better than my parents but they just used the "I'm the parent" card. It DID NOT make me respect them more, it made me see them as incompetent buffalo. Accepting that you are defeated in this situation and actually taking her advice and conceding you know less I think is the better more "Alpha" and competent move.

Assume you used "Explain"

Her: "Why are you doing squats this way."

You: "I watched this YouTube video that said do it this way."

Her: "Don't listen to that guy he is wrong, his form is wrong in x,y,z ways".

You: Okay I'll listen to you.

Alright, in this scenario you used rational explanations and at the end accepted that she is the boss in this frame. BUT YOU'RE FUCKING COMPETENT. In life, guess what, you're going to lose some hands. A good player knows when to fold them and not escalate the situation making them look even more ignorant and retarded.

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Now change the story. You're the fitness coach and she doesn't know shit.

Lets use "Explain".

Her: Why are you doing squats this way

You: Because its the best way to reduce pressure on your back. Your form is wrong in x,y,z ways you'll hurt yourself.

Her: But Dumbass McGee on YouTube says do it this way.

You: I know better than Dumbass McGee, I aced my exams and studied rigorous textbooks for years.

Now you're explaining, but at the end of the day YOU ARE THE AUTHORITY, and a fair one. You give her a chance to educate and better herself off your knowledge. Obviously if she keeps continuing and choosing to remain hard headed you just exit, but you give her a chance to accept that you're the boss and that she can learn from you.

Assume you "Deflected" in this situation.

Her: Why are you doing squats this way

You: Why aren't you

Her: Because Dumbass McGee on YouTube says do it this way.

You: You're both dumb *walks out*.

Ok, you imposed that you're the authority on squats, but now you're kind of an asshole. You didn't really lead her to better herself. You didn't give her a chance.

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See, I see this shit as a game of poker. At the end of the day, constantly improve yourself so you can be the authority in all situations. And when you have the best hand, it doesn't really matter how you play that shit, you're going to win the pot. And at the same time, when you have the worse hand, it doesn't matter how you play that shit you're going to lose the pot.

Playing aggressive (deflect) when you have a dogshit hand makes you look retarded, you're going to lose VERY hard. Playing too hard (deflect) when you have a really good hand also makes you retarded, you're not getting the best out of the situation.

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Here is a direct example from the original post.

Her: "Why are you wearing that color?"

He says its right to "Deflect"

You: --- "Why aren't you?"

Her: I think pink is a better color

You: *Shrug and exit still wearing red*

but imagine if you explained (assuming you have some authority, say you for sure know fashion better than her)

You: Red makes people feel romantic and we're going on a date, maybe you should try it.

Her: Well I think pink is a better color

You: *Shrug and exit still wearing red*.

Again, both situations, you're imposing that you're the authority and won't be controlled. But you're giving her a chance to learn from you. You're being a good leader, not an asshole.

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What are you're guy's thoughts? At the end of the day, I think, dominate a frame GENTLY when you have the goods. Quickly and gently CONCEDE the frame when you don't.

"Frame control" is kind of stupid.

When she says "Why are you doing x this way". (Sets up that she is the authority frame)

If you start explaining you accept that frame, but you can defeat her within it if you have the goods and then at the end you're the authority.

If you deflect you set up a new frame (that you're the authority), but you can still lose within the frame.

I don't think its important really who is "controlling" and leading the frame, I think at the end of the day whoever wins wins.

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