To Pay, Or Not To Pay.

Scorptice · 2018-11-02T17:34:19+00:00

That was a nice day-dream in all actuality.

Don't waste money on bitches, lol. Go on a walk in the park, show her your favourite spot, bring some drinks in a back-pack, maybe go eat some pizza.

There you go, $20 and you are not a food ticket.

But if you happen to be OPs #3, sure. Go for that instead.

redhawkes · 2018-11-02T18:53:31+00:00

Who pays for a date, you or the girl?

Answer: Without a doubt, you should pay on dates. Your interactions with her will go better if you do, both short term and long term.

Put this in your thick skull:

”You can’t negotiate attraction.”

You’re slipping into the feminine imperative. You don’t owe her a shit.

Dark_Lord_A · 2018-11-02T19:33:01+00:00

I'll be frank mate; I agree that #3 is the most ideal. However, most women simply aren't worth all that time and money, even if you're a super rich retiree at 31. And I'm not spending a large amount of money to make some useless thot feel special.

CainPrice · 2018-11-02T19:39:11+00:00

There's a much simpler line of thinking going on here, if we cut out the fat and the colorful language:

Paying for a girl on a date is a good sexual strategy because it increases your chances of getting laid.

Making a girl pay isn't some manly example of holding frame and valuing yourself that makes her vagina wet. It's a way to socially signal to her that you aren't feeling it and didn't have a good time and don't want to waste any money. Or that you're cheap. Or that you're an asshole.

Now I'm not saying it's necessary that you pay to get laid and that every time you don't pay you'll go home alone or anything stupid like that. But making a girl pay her own way can't help your chances. It can only be neutral or make them worse.

But first off, guys need to learn how to recognize when a date isn't going that well, she's not that into him, and she's not down. Because in that case, he shouldn't waste any more time. He should end the date immediately, split the bill, and not text her again. Paying at this point would be stupid and a waste.

Second, guys shouldn't be taking girls on super-expensive dates early on. Nice things are for girls you're already fucking on a consistent basis. Your first date should be drinks for an hour or two. Then, when you end up paying, you're not out 100 bucks for fancy dinner. You're out 20 bucks for vodka.

But if the date has gone well and the girl is down and she's ready to move on to your place or hers, or at least to a second more intimate location, just pay the bill. That awkward moment where she wonders if you're paying and she makes the token offer to pay can be really weird and a total mood killer. Just pay for her drinks to keep the night going and avoid awkwardness or bad social signals that might cost you the lay. If you can't afford 20 bucks worth of vodka, your shit's not together enough to have an active dating life anyway.

In summary, paying for dates is a better sexual strategy than not paying. It maximizes your chances of getting laid. - If and only if you recognize when a girl's not down and don't waste your money then.

SuperCrazy07 · 2018-11-02T17:29:43+00:00

What you call a young girls wet dream, the rest of us call a sugar daddy.

Da_RectumWrecker · 2018-11-02T18:30:10+00:00

Sounds like this dude is just a sugar daddy. Sure, you get to have a really hot bitch live with you, but she is fucking me on the side whether you know about it or not.

One of my plates has a sugar daddy just like you. He is a high powered lawyer with a nice house. She even brought me over there one night with a group of people. He supplied the whole party with coke. A lot of coke.

I talked to the guy. I actually liked him. We arranged to meet up and play some golf later in the week. He had no confidence issues and from what I saw he didnt seem like just a beta provider. He didnt lift though, so in actuality all he had was provider status.

He did end up with a different girl in his bed that night, and I ended up in the spare bedroom with my plate. He tried to get them to have a threesome with him but I was there and she wanted me.

I'm sure that what he spent that night was a drop in the bucket compared to his wealth, but to be fair if a girl only wants to be around me because I have money it makes me want to vomit. You're going to get the starfish pussy if you go down the sugar daddy route. I want the "omg give me that dick now" there is a puddle in the bed kind of sex. Have fun with your stuff. I'm gonna do me.

ManguZa · 2018-11-02T18:27:25+00:00

Never pay if she expect it.

-saltymangos- · 2018-11-02T19:44:32+00:00

We are both in college and we both pay for our own food. I don’t see a problem with paying for what you ordered. Sure, I’ll tip bc that’s I was raised but if she orders it, she pays.

Edit: I will address your last paragraph... I should try saying “I’m gonna pay for us” and see how she reacts. I expect there will be no resist bc she respects me and is submissive. I remember when I was a super BP’d kid (last year) and almost had a damn argument about who is paying for the meal in front of the poor cashier(with my ex) . My ex INSISTED she pay for her $6 burger, but I wanted to pay bc that’s what I was taught... thank God I found this sub. It’s saved my life.

nebder · 2018-11-03T11:43:59+00:00

TRP has stages of progress. The initial hard and fast rules are for the man that just unplugged and is still breaking free of all the societal programming forced on his mind. “Text for logistics only”, “Dont pay any money on a date” etc. Those are field tested bits of wisdom and advice gained from the collective years of game study and note swapping. These are binary rules that the emerging bloop sperg needs to navigate the true social environment we all live in.

You outgrow these base rules once you have a good working knowledge and experience applying them to your life and sexual strategy. There’s nuance to human interaction. I bend and break the rules all the time now because I know which ones I can bend. I have the experience now.

Your baseline message is that you can exhibit social dominance via spending your resources from the right frame. Social dominance makes the panties wet. Its a solid message for the men exiting the noob phase of their journey.

Youll also see pushback from the people who are stuck in the binary ruleset. They aren’t at the stage to process this evolution of sexual strategy so it would not be effective in their situation. Give them time, they’ll either figure it out or wash out. Either way that’s on them.

SerendipitySociety · 2018-11-02T19:35:37+00:00

I agree if you're obviously more wealthy than her and you won't hurt dropping $100 date. Otherwise, for the <3σ males, it's a better idea to pay his own, especially if she expects him to pay for her. Her SMV may be orders of magnitude higher than his, but if he won't supplicate her even though she has a suspicion that he's sexually attracted, she will see his SMV higher. Light switch on.

KaraethonCycle · 2018-11-02T20:00:22+00:00

Broadly agree with the message of the post (that the frame in which you spend the money is more important than whether you spend money on the girl or not).

Just don't use it as a crutch and be aware that if you're really the guy from scenario 3, the date shouldn't be necessary. If you take her for one drink and bang her in the restroom, if she's happy to come over to your place and fuck you just because she enjoys (and is validated by) being in your presence with nothing more in it for her - then she's really into you.

And if she's really into you, and you enjoy her company, by all means take her out to dinner or on a fancy holiday if you really want to go and it'll be fun to have her along (post bang of course) - you don't have to insist she pays half or anything - as long as the main payoff for her is "I get to hang out with and be fucked by this cool guy", NOT "I get to go on a fancy holiday".

One nuance which a lot of men miss: as long as you present as an alpha, and not a BB provider, girls do not care about money - they care about the emotions you make them feel. But if part of your alpha presentation - your identity basically - is "rich, successful businessman", then NOT paying will put a girl off you - not because of the money itself, but because it is not congruent with the "rich successful alpha businessman" image that she was attracted to in the first place. Same kind of congruence break will happen if for example you meet her in a suit, take her to a fancy cocktail bar, tell her about your business and then you take her home and she's totally into you - until you take her home and she sees you actually live in a shitty apartment in a high-crime area and don't have a car (even if there's a good reason for those things and you really are a successful businessman - maybe you're investing all your money in your business and not your lifestyle - whatever) - and suddenly you can feel her interest evaporating.

That's NOT because she expects her men to make X amount of money or a fancy car and you failed the test (she expects those things from betas, not alphas), it's because you broke congruence and she's thinking "this guy isn't really what he seems - I thought he was a rich, successful businessman, but if he lives in a shitty apartment with no car, is he really what he seems to be?" and THAT is a major problem.

The thing is, even in that example (with the shitty apartment etc), you could successfully get the SAME girl - if you'd dressed down in jeans and a tshirt, taken her to the local dive bar, and spent the evening talking about your hobby and passion for playing guitar (instead of your successful business, even though both those things are genuine parts of you) and then taking her back to your shitty apartment - in that case there is no congruence breach - she doesn't expect anything different from the passionate guitar player - she knows the apartment will be shitty etc.

This is a really nuanced point and it took me ages to learn this but it's very important.

Paying or not doesn't really matter, as long as (a) it is from the right frame; AND (b) it is congruent to the identity you are projecting

319Skew · 2018-11-03T00:05:34+00:00

Pass. Sorry. I don't see any point in paying for dates. If you are worried that you'll lose frame then you're compensating and aren't the prize in that equation.

If you've built up that attractive lifestyle and personality then she'll want to be around you and will fight for YOUR attention and validation.

You don't even need to indulge the dream. Just give her a whiff of it because she knows that if she doesn't play by YOUR rules then someone else will have that chance.

I've gone on dates where I paid for everything. I've gone on dates where we've split the bill. I've gone on dates where she paid for everything. Each example, I got laid. It's not about who pays but who is chasing and who is being chased.

Hell, I've had a few months where I was sporting 4-6 plates a month and according to you, I'd be broke.

AllahHatesFags · 2018-11-02T19:25:49+00:00

Only pay if you think you are going to get something out of it, unless it's something cheap like coffee. You have the entire meal to figure out if she's into you. If she is, go ahead and pay; if not, either split the check or if you really feel like she was just using you for a meal then just walk out and stiff her with the bill. Only cucked white knights or guys wealthy enough not to care pay for meals they know they aren't getting anything out of.

Quaternionz · 2018-11-02T20:01:15+00:00

“If you can't afford 20 bucks worth of vodka, your shit's not together enough to have an active dating life anyway.”

Finally someone sane on this thread. Yes, exactly this.

We have some differences, but I generally agree with everything you said. Same strategy with a different tint.

Upvoted.

leolanik14 · 2018-11-02T22:27:26+00:00

A cup coffee. That’s all it takes for me.

DadOnDabs · 2018-11-03T03:12:03+00:00

Lmao garunteed OP is not the guy in option 3. The most I have ever spent on a date is maybe $20 and I've had max 5 girls not fuck on the first or second date. At first they are taken back that I'm not offering up to pay for them but they forget that within 5 minutes.

Tbh if you recommend a coffee date, ice cream date, or something like that they almost expect to pay for themselves.

HumptyDumptyFellHard · 2018-11-03T07:08:05+00:00

You first suggested we learn photography just to try and hopefully get a quick lay on Tinder and impress bitches who give two shits about some stranger on an app, now you are suggesting we pay so we can hopefully strengthen that attraction with have(if she has any) with some bitch in hopes of fucking her? You can’t buy attraction. You might get signs that she is interested in you, but women do this all the time just to get what they want. That being validation or simply a free drink. One should remember women are machiavellian in nature.

You should avoid paying for a bitch. You are the prize, if anything she should offer to buy you a drink which suggest she actually does want to bang you. Unless you want to look like all other thirst cocks out there aching to get her attention, go for it..

NaturalShifts · 2018-11-03T08:05:50+00:00

Spending money on her when she has done nothing to earn that privilege already puts you in her frame by default.

Spending money on her when she's done nothing for it is just another way of attempting to gain approval from her.

The more money you spend, the more likely it is she will see you as a BB and treat you accordingly.

You're dating her to see if she's worth your time, not to try and convince her with your spending prowess that your worth hers.

antifeminist435 · 2018-11-03T06:13:43+00:00

If you're looking for a date, do along the lines of #3. If you're looking for a wife, invite her to do something that doesn't cost money, like go for a walk. If she's interested, she definitely accept because she will clearly take it to be an opportunity to talk and get to know each other. If she says 'we should do....' which costs money, she wants validation/have herself elevated/using you for money, and that doesn't make for wife material.

strikethrough123 · 2018-11-04T04:36:03+00:00

When it comes to paying for other people’s shit, I follow one rule: I’ll do it if I want to.

Some hoes can appreciate the occasional cheeseburger.

Quaternionz · 2018-11-02T18:46:19+00:00

Lol, you know you struck a nerve when you’re post is at the top of the controversial filter and has 0 karma because 20 + (-20) = 0.

RiskyRewarder · 2018-11-02T22:47:53+00:00

You don't pay whores for sex, you pay them to go home after

2018-11-02T18:46:41+00:00

" Who pays for a date, you or the girl?

Answer: Without a doubt, you should pay on date"

A MGTOW perspective: I'm not the one who should pay for it. When a guy is going on a date with a girl both of them are getting the experience and if they have sex both of them are having pleasure. IF the relationship grows into smth she'll have access to things he built after long hard work without having to pay for anything and IF the guy marries her, she'll have his assets and if she divorces she'll take half of his stuff...

Why should the guy be the one who pays when there is so many risks involved? Even if you consider just a fuck and dump, you're basically paying her stuff for smth you're not sure you'll get but she is for sure satisfied with the food.

latinasonly · 2018-11-02T17:50:31+00:00

in my experince , i have found that me speaking with the cashier and asking thr girl what she wants and me ordering and paying for it to be much more belittling as opposed to each of us ordering separately . me ordering reminds me of going to a restaurant with my little brother

Title	To Pay, Or Not To Pay.
Author	Quaternionz
Upvotes	0
Comments	80
Date	November 2, 2018 5:25 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/9tm5o4/to_pay_or_not_to_pay/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/to-pay-or-not-to-pay.1184084 https://theredarchive.com/post/1184084

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