Covert communication without covert contracts

PurpleVeteran · 2016-12-28T22:17:13+00:00

A covert contract is an expectation that you make with yourself about how someone else should behave or respond to your behavior. It's living in someone else's frame, and then hoping that they will do you a favor. Recognizing and killing them is simply part of ownership and leading.

Covert communication on the other hand, is demonstrating frame without words. There is no contract or expectation, just setting a high bar for yourself. It's cleaning the house, not to make her feel guilty, but just because it needs to be done. It's why the 12 levels of dread are actually a plan for self-improvement, and not (as it often appears to newbies) a way to use her hamster to get yourself laid.

Focus on yourself and your MAP. Become the prize, but do it for yourself. Don't be one of those guys that says "wow, my SMV has jumped 3 points and I have 20yo HBs hanging off me, but my wife is still a cold bitch". Because, your wife will notice the changes... but it's up to her whether she responds to it. Your only expectation should be "this is the sort of wife/marriage I want", and to lead her there or cut her loose if she refuses. Look at recent posts by /u/bismarck8888 and /u/JDRoedell for successes and insights at this part of the journey.

Now, to be fair, if your wife still hasn't responded after the requisite time (1 month RP per year of BP/marriage), it may be necessary to engage overtly. This is dropping the nuke, and saying plainly what dread and frame have been indicating for a long time. And by then, it won't be a surprise to her... she will probably be relieved to have it out in the open. Read the story of /u/2gunsgetsome and others to see what this looks like. The point is, FMoFY should be the last resort, and make the logical transition from "deliberately ignoring your problems" to "let's agree to move on with our lives".

Bottom line: give yourself enough time to establish your own frame, and you will see the BP covert mindset just fall away as bullshit. Acta, non verba.

enfier · 2016-12-28T23:52:26+00:00

Covert communication is used when overt communication could result in offense or be socially unacceptable. It's a technique to have a conversation about a difficult subject while retaining plausible deniability.

As an example, when you drop a woman off she might ask if you would like to come up to her place for a drink. The act of being alone in her apartment implies that sex is likely to occur, but the words don't. It has a couple of benefits - you can turn her down without rejecting her and if you go blab your mouth about her being a slut she can plausibly fall back to the overt meaning of the words.

Same goes for a woman pausing at the door (you can kiss me) or making you wait while she does her makeup (you are a chump that's lucky to be dating me) and a whole host of other situations.

Handling those situations with overt communication strips away the plausible deniability and will likely result in declining or at the very least a sense that you are clueless. If you ask her to come up to your place and fuck, you may get a different answer than if you ask her to come up to your place and watch a movie, even if the actions you take both times are exactly the same.

It can also work well for office politics and women do it all the time in social situations.

Here's a long article that explains a lot of it: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

redearththeory · 2016-12-29T08:10:26+00:00

With a covert contract, you create and reinforce the narrative that you need something from them, which puts them into a perfect position to dominate you. Women are experts at recognizing and exploiting this. With covert communication you threaten something they value, remind them that they need something from you, and further your ability to dominate them.

Veritas76 · 2016-12-28T22:05:58+00:00

Cover contract: I am going to do A and the other party suppose/is expected to do B.

Cover communication: I am going to do A and the other party suppose/is expected to do B.

There are two different elements here:

With covert contract the party B is not aware it takes part in the game. Party B is completly oblivious to the fact you are "comunicating" something. It is not like party B understads but decided not to act in desirable way.

the wife was invariably astonished when she discovered she was part of a covert contract I'd set up.

In case of covert comunication, you are not comunicating bluntly, however both parties have a clear understanding of the situation. Regardless if the understanding is "just" on the subconscious level. When I kino my wife, I comunicate very clearly "I want to fuck you". She hears clearly "I want to fuck you". So she knows and understands the situation. If she puts up or not that is a different topic lol.

The secondary aspect is a lot of bitterness with covert contracts. The reason is, they do not work at all. The party B does not know there is an expectation, deal, ultimatum or what ever. Everything is only in the party A head. So party B can not react positively even if it wanned to because it does not know...

My two cents.

Kosmoknots · 2016-12-28T22:07:01+00:00

There is nothing wrong with covert language, just covert contracts. Covert language is everywhere, from batting of eyes to posture. Covert contracts expect the other person to know about and perform according to a contract that they don't even know about. Remove expectations that they will do something because you acted a certain way.

ThrowTheEgg · 2016-12-28T22:13:23+00:00

There's no difference - it's still a covert contract, the way you've framed it. That is, you're still in her frame. Doing shit not because it should be done, or that you want to do it, but so that she will do something for you.

Change the frame of reference. You do something because it is the right thing to do for you - for you to be better, to improve, to be challenged and succeed, etc. She does not matter. Her response to what you do does not matter. The outcome and side-effects of what you do for you do not matter, outside of the result that you are striving for, for you.

See the difference? It is no longer a covert contract with her, it is an overt contract with yourself.

Does she see you improving, succeeding, getting stronger, getting better? Probably. Does she respond positively, and have more desire or more respect or anything else after that? Quite possibly.

Does it matter to you whether she does or doesn't do any of these things?

That question is the one you need to answer.

stonepimpletilists · 2016-12-28T22:15:34+00:00

One is communication, one is holding expectations and resentment when its not followed

Sepean · 2016-12-29T14:29:11+00:00

The problem with covert contracts is that there isn't really any contract and that there is no causal link between what you do for the other party and what you expect them to do for you.

"I work my ass off for my family and I expect blowjobs in return" is a covert contract.

Paying a hooker $100 for a blowjob isn't a covert contract.

Being alpha and getting blowjobs for free isn't a covert contract, but that doesn't mean you rely on overt communication. The whole idea that romantic interaction is based on contracts is flawed. Demonstrate value and be attractive and everything is given freely even enthusiasticly.

ReddJive · 2016-12-30T13:34:31+00:00

90% of the men come here because they aren't getting the sexual satisfaction they want or used to get and can't figure out why or how. All the know is that there is a problem.

Rollo comes from this position and expands outwards.

NMMNG talks more to the overall in life. There are men here that are killing it in the business world but are utter failures in their relations with women.

You have to merge this knowledge

Turning knowledge into experience is a skill all it's own.

druganswer · 2016-12-28T23:12:54+00:00

Read up on power talk

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2az5ut/please_explain_power_talk_to_me/

quick explanation.

and more

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1zrcs3/on_the_implications_of_powertalk_and_other/

Title	Covert communication without covert contracts
Author	jcrpta
Upvotes	5
Comments	11
Date	December 28, 2016 9:28 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/5ksqvg/covert_communication_without_covert_contracts/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/covert-communication-without-covert-contracts.206725 https://theredarchive.com/post/206725

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