I am having trouble with Dread Level 4.

Trekneck · 2016-02-17T16:37:51+00:00

She is selfish, shallow and self centered. Traits she will readily admit to. I also feel that she represses her sexuality. I encourage her but I just feel like there are walls there

Of course she will admit to it. Any suggestion of a reason for why she doesn't want to sleep with you is easier than telling you flat out "you don't turn me on." Which seems to be exactly what's going on here. Whether your SMV is lower than you realize, your behavior is suspect and causing attraction issues, etc, you aren't turning her on, so you can't expect better than what you're getting.

Still….I am reading all the material for the second time in many cases…some a third. Internalization is the key.

Absorbing and understanding the material is indeed key. But having to read through NMMNG or any of the others 3 times to get an understanding of the material tells me that you're focusing too much on what you think you should be doing, rather than actually doing it. You don't need to do everything down to the letter, but you do at some point have to start doing SOMETHING.

There are two things that I've gotten from this post. 1: You are entirely too focused on her. Which leads to 2: You are coming off as incredibly needy here, which is a good indication that you're coming off as very needy to her. Which is ultimately an attraction killer. Your claims of being stoic are fine, but I get the hint that they are few and far between, and in the middle of these rare instances you're beating down her door for attention and validation that the RP process is working.

You post title was about having trouble with Dread Level 4. But the entirety of your post tells me that you're not anywhere near hitting level 4. This whole needy, validation seeking post is begging for an attaboy, keep it up. Don't expect to get it.

How do you expect to be able to condition your availability to this woman when all you can talk about in your post is what she says, what she's doing, what she wants.

Seems to me, you need to focus on Dread Level 1, and learn to better deal with her sexual denials and shit tests. You aren't passing them, despite what you'd like yourself to believe.

enfier · 2016-02-17T19:46:20+00:00

Your entire post is about her. You are spending way to much time analyzing her behavior and wants when you should be analyzing your own.

If your 10 second kiss is getting starfished and you aren't liking it, stop doing it. Then wait for the hamster to come up with the reason why she's not getting kissed any more.

BluepillProfessor · 2016-02-17T17:34:03+00:00

There was a reason Dread Level 4 was expanded to more than 5,000 words in my book: Saving A Low Sex Marriage: A Man's Guide to Dread, Seduction, and the Long Game. In it I discuss "The Husband's Dilemma" and how (and when) to play your "nice" card and your "mean" card.

In addition I discuss there are FOUR types of "Mean Cards" the husband can play all of them withdrawing from the wife after a sexual denial.

The lowest level and the least harsh is to simply withdraw your TIME. Doesn't want to have sex? OK, see you later sweetie. I am going to the gym.

The next level is to withdraw your ATTENTION. Ignore, go to gym. Don't be butthurt.

The 3rd level is to withdraw your AFFECTION. In addition to not making time for her you stop showing physical affection. I very, very quickly started seeing my wife as an irritant when I got to this point.

Finally, you withdraw your PRESENCE. I can't define it for you but this is extremely important to women. Basically, it is YOU that you are taking away. It is not the "silent treatment" precisely. You still may have to interact and so on about the kids or whatever but YOU are not "present." If you start doing this frequently, a divorce is probably imminent so be careful.

I can't tell you what combination of "withdrawing" to use. Only YOU can figure that out. Start slow and build it over time.

Do I just keep on? I keep initiating when I want sex, dial back time/commitment when I don’t get it.

Yes, keep on. The trick is to do Dread level 3 FIRST. You need to get BUSY so that your withdrawing your time and attention is a natural consequence of you not wanting to spend time with a sexually withdrawing, unpleasant wife. You need her to see that your time is valuable and if she wants your time and attention (and eventually your affection and presence) then she is going to have to earn it.

stonepimpletilists · 2016-02-17T16:45:10+00:00

Couple little things first...

Your entire first bit is DEERing your post. Why do that, we don't care, Iron sharpens Iron. The only pre-requisite is owning your shit.
For your lifting. You have a goal? Is it specific and measurable? You shouldn't have to ask if it's progress, you should already know. If this isn't just trying to get an attaboy from people here, you might want to take a step back on that.
For your shit tests, you seem to grasp this idea of progress, so it's not foreign to you.
I never liked the 10 second kiss. I much prefer the ass pat and some ignorant statement with a big smile.
My SMV is rising and I would dare say far higher then hers. This is not how it works. SMV is how women judge men, and your opinion of it is irrelevant. If she's not using mate retention strategies, than she thinks it's lower. That probably because you're getting no pre selection from other women.
Sex... This reads just like some of the older posts. The wife who puts a 6 month hiatus on sex, any goalposts that she can move. Women aren't tingled on a schedule, this is strictly IV drip sex, and you seem to be accepting of the fact. Stop putting up with it. That's her frame you have your head in, and it's level 1. Next time, mid thrust, consider just getting up, putting on some clothes, say it isn't working for you, and go somewhere... anywhere for a few hours/overnight/weekend. Schedule a fishing trip, gym etc and initiate just prior to. that's how you dread level 4. Have something better to do, give her an opportunity to sex your attention, or go be you.

She has pretty much stopped me from being able to do anything other then what she wants, how I want, and on her terms only ... One is to stop and tell her it isn’t working for me. The other is to accept starfish and make it the best she has had. I have chosen the later.

She has done nothing but maintain control, you have put up with this, and you want a warm hole more than great sex. If that's your goal, than mission accomplished.

four statements that sum up your situation.

I was mad but what could I do about it. Nothing. I kept my cool and kept busy. I did not let her know, but like I said…I wasn’t ok with it.
I know I need to get past that but this is a process of time. I just kept on with my weekend and accepted it.
Her sex schedule which I have said is Sunday and Thursday, it still requires me to look at the clock and go….oops. 11pm time to get it on.
I consider myself at level 4 but it seems I having trouble making it work. What am I missing?

Frame doesn't mean you don't get angry, it means you don't lash out like a child. One of my favorite examples of controlled anger was a guy in a situation like yours... wife was bitching about where her birthday this, and gift that was... His answer was perfect:

"Because you don't fucking deserve it"

She's lion taming with a chair, think the lion is actually unable to free himself? This reeks of a covert contract, where you sit quietly and build, and eventually she will come around. This is a horrible attitude, it's basically a passive way of 'doing it for her' or 'if I do X, she'll give Y'. The fact you accepted her schedule means you're ass deep in her frame. Notice she has the energy to go and ski solo, but not enough to enjoy 15 minutes of your dick? That tells you everything you need to know. She knows you're a schlub, and nothing you do will change that... except pre selection, and this is where you can be with level 4.

Go look up /u/ultimatecads post on his wife denying him sex and his response. Look up /u/bluepillprofessors speech about his wifes sagging old pussy. Tell me if you're in any position to actually look out for #1, instead of quietly sulking in a corner when things don't go your way. What exactly are you prepared to do here?

actionable things

plan a trip, for wherever tickles your fancy, schedule it for a thursday/sunday. She puts out starfish, or moves the goalposts? Fuck it. Hey, I'm headed out, see you in a few days. Any grief? Laugh, and remember how hard it was to go skiing solo. If you can't think of anything better to do (dread 3) then go to starbucks for the day and read, hell, one guy here would sit in his car quietly and listen to music. Absense, and don't ever say what you're doing. If you really want to get the hamster riled up... have a shower as soon as you get home.
yeah, you need a goal and a plan. be honest with what you truly want, and seriously keep delving down the rabbit hole. I want sex isnt' an answer, because you could just go hit on other girls, but why does it specifically have to be her? No answer is too cruel or selfish.
If your goal is established, and specific, then judge your success by your standard. If you aren't there, but seeing progress? Continue. If it's not progressing? Go up. Treat dread like a specific set of steps to be happy, and give yourself enough time to decide if you're kicking her out or not. Dread is about moving on, not fixing things. Her straightening up and getting tingles is a pleasant side effect, and no guarantee you'll still want her at that point.
Stop being a bitch. Too many apologies, sad "OKs", and quiet stewing in the corner. If something is bullshit, call it so, you don't have to scream like a child, but call it bullshit and go somewhere else. Gym, Car, travel, freinds.... go anywhere, do anything, just don't be available. verbal intercourse is optional

FearDearg2015 · 2016-02-17T16:33:21+00:00

What am I missing?

You are missing the forest for the trees. You are looking at every tree in detail, instead of observing the forest. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts etc

Time for you to take more ownership over what you are doing and WHY you are doing it. The Sex you want comes as a side effect of doing all the other stuff. If you are doing all this simply to have sex with her, then you are missing a trick. I know RP is a sexual strategy, so in theory you ARE doing this just to have sex, but not necessarily with her. Sure, you can be monogamous. But the hamster won't do its thing if it doesn't feel like you COULD or WOULD go elsewhere.

over60_stupid_loner · 2016-02-17T17:40:49+00:00

OP, just read the entire post and comments. Almost every single poster has given you the keys to the kingdom.

You are really invested in in your LTR. You are gaining ground but short of your perceived Dread level and SMV in your LTR's eyes.

As you re-read these posts from the vets, notice how you are almost arguing with them. Dial back your defenses and it will get better.

Redneck001 · 2016-02-17T18:05:23+00:00

Others have given you plenty to think about. I agree, you're taking individual steps, but aren't grasping the overall concept.

This quote really stood out:

My SMV is rising and I would dare say far higher then hers.

I bought some wheels and tires for my truck. Put the old ones on Craigslist for $600. I thought they were worth that much. Nobody else agrees with me, apparently.

I still have them. I'm going to repost them for $300. But, I realize they may not have as much value as I think.

ParadoxThatDrivesUs · 2016-02-17T16:34:59+00:00

To me, this reads like you really aren't thinking that leaving her is a possibility. In other words, you're bluffing. If I see it, I'm guessing she does too. Dread isn't dreadful if it's a transparent bluff.

SexistFlyingPig · 2016-02-17T18:31:57+00:00

You are still not getting it.

You're in the gym 5-6 days a week and you're at the dojo 2 hours a night, 4 days a week. How are you not ripped like Terry Crews right now? What exactly are you doing every day? Nevermind, I don't really care, but the phrase "It's not the hours you put in, it's what you put in the hours." comes to mind.

I don't know what to think of what you've written. "Since April 2015, I've lost 100 pounds" And "this whole process of mine is over weeks not just a couple days". Is it 10 months of progress, or weeks of progress?

Dude, congratulations on losing a shit ton of weight, really. This is part of level 0 in the 12 levels of dread. How is your wardrobe? How's your haircut? Hygiene?

Most of the details you include in your post are totally irrelevant. I'll talk about the things that jump out at me.

1) "She is selfish, shallow and self centered"
Why are you with her? You don't get anything close to the sex you want, and she's a shitty person. Why stay?
2) "Her sex schedule which I have said is Sunday and Thursday"
This is not on any plan for improvement that I've seen anywhere in the sidebar material. This is an overt contract for sex, which is a horrible idea.

You are still acting entirely in her frame. I'm going to stop trying to analyze your situation because I feel like I'm falling into your fucked up frame.

You are at level 0 of the 12 levels of dread. You've improved your build. It's time to work on your wardrobe. When your core start is solid, you will be ready for level 1 of dread. YOU ARE NOT THERE YET. When you talk about how you negotiate around her Sunday/Thursday schedule, it drives me nuts. It's like you're arranging deck chairs on the titanic. Sure, maybe one arrangement would be better than another, but it doesn't fucking matter because the ship is sinking.

NevrEndr · 2016-02-19T19:58:43+00:00

Oh God the dreaded "sex schedule"

Please one of you kill me if it ever gets that bad.

Bro, my only shitty advice to you would be start focusing WAY more on yourself. I think you are overthinking everything you're learning so your brain is overanalyzing every gesture or word.

Gym is great but it's not always enough. Spend time away from her if you are both going to be home. You don't need to tell her what you're doing. "Going out babe! Back in a few hours!" and go do what you want. You know what worked for me? Guns. One day i brought home a Glock 9mm. Took it apart completely, cleaned it, put it back together in front of my wife who had no fucking clue I knew how to do that (thanks Dad) or that I had ever shot a gun in my life. The next weekend we went shooting together and she loved it. Boom. Shared interest that turns her on that I can keep in my back pocket. Now whenever i bring home a new gun it's "Oh that one looks cool. What's it called? When can we go try it out?" instead of "HOW MUCH MONEY WAS THAT THING?!!??!"

Another example - I played varsity basketball and college intramurals. Wife had no idea I can play. So I tell her I'm going out then come back 3 hours later sweaty with a basketball. I don't say shit but put the ball down and go shower. You have to have some mystery about you. You have to keep things from her and only reveal them if she asks. So she asks - "shooting hoops" /end convo. Then not the next time but a few weekends later when I go to the park for pickup game I asked if she wanted to come along and bring the kids. I had my own cheerleading section. Was awesome.

I might be off track with my comments here but being in your shoes and trying to digest everything I learned here and in the reading material just had me overthinking. Sometimes you need to take a step back and enjoy yourself instead of analyzing.

Also initiating while she's on the phone is generally a bad idea. Just go fuck off for a bit till she's done then come in the room and start rubbing her twat. You don't need to talk. If she talks don't even acknowledge it. If she hard no's after that you can just fuck off again and go do what you want.

blue_to_red · 2016-02-17T16:35:02+00:00

How much are you gaming her during the day? For my wife, if I don't spend time prepping her throughout the day, it is much more difficult to get the afterhours activities to happen.

Also only initiating according to her schedule is living in her frame. Initiate when you want to, and be OI if she is not receptive. Don't be beta about initiating either. You are about to rock her world, act accordingly!

druganswer · 2016-02-18T04:18:58+00:00

Read your post, and for a long winded one it isn't as bad as some. I'm being lazy and people have combed through this so I'm adding very little.

Want to test your relative SMV and inspire some dread? I'm a little numb from this shit so this may nuke your relationship if you aren't actually where you think you are... and you need to be able to handle the fallout. Do her Tuesday at the stated time. Initiate Wednesday. If she says something like "hun you know the schedule," tell her that she can keep her spots on Tuesday and Sunday, but if she's not willing to do it on those other nights you're going to have to find a Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday girl(s). She'll probably say that's not funny or laugh this off if she doesn't think you would ever really do it. Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll say go for it or good luck. Then download whatever dating app works best for your age range. Don't hide it but don't rub it in her face... use it when she's not around, but leave notifications on. When she eventually notices it tell her you're looking to meet new people or trying to expand your circle, fuck get one that has an option "for friendship" or whatever... if she asks to see it tell her no, it's your privacy. Start making plans with your buddies more often but NOT the days she schedules to fuck. You don't have to be vague about where you're going, you can tell her... Wednesday night rolls around: dress up (just a bit more than usual) and put a little cologne on and tell her you're going to hang out with whatever friend you made plans with. Avoid your cell phone, if she calls don't answer. Text back after an hour. "Just chilling at wherever you are" Don't lie to her about anything, don't plan to fuck other women on said dating app at this time (this might make you turn beta out of guilt - if any start convos with you direct them towards friendship), when she accuses you of cheating or whatever her hamster decides on just act like she's crazy and hold frame 100%. Don't let her go through your phone.

See if she only fucks you on Tuesday and Sunday from then on.

Title	I am having trouble with Dread Level 4.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	30
Date	February 17, 2016 3:32 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4695yv/i_am_having_trouble_with_dread_level_4/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/i-am-having-trouble-with-dread-level-4.207662 https://theredarchive.com/post/207662

Comments

Couple little things first...

four statements that sum up your situation.

actionable things