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Philipparty
[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas[M,🍰] [score hidden] 5 years ago stickied comment (2 children) | Copy Link
2) never feel guilt again. Try pushing a bit harder than you have before. Be more obvious in flirting.... 6) going for the kiss and getting rejected means nothing. So go for it. Sometimes you need to try a few times. Somethimes she needs to prosess it. Just go for it.
2) never feel guilt again. Try pushing a bit harder than you have before. Be more obvious in flirting....
6) going for the kiss and getting rejected means nothing. So go for it. Sometimes you need to try a few times. Somethimes she needs to prosess it. Just go for it.
Two of the biggest issues facing guys who come here trying to figure out dating, boil down to poor calibration and confidence.
They either don't have the confidence to make a move.
If they don't know how to make adjustments or calibrate during their social interaction, including during escalation, but also well before escalation.
This second one is tricky because it involves empathy to be able to read the girl and the situation.
Telling newbs to throw guilt out the window is good for confidence but also encourages them to ignore empathy. Similarly, asking guys to be more obvious when usually the problem is that they're awkwardly ham-fisted and obvious... Is not a fix.
Telling someone to ignore signals completely and keep pushing physical escalation despite signals she's sending, also tramples over the development of calibration.
Boldness has it's place but ignoring calibration can land you in jail.
[–]Philipparty2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I should have explained nr 6 better. When I say "means nothing" I mean it wont change anything drastically. If the girl doesnt like you, she wont suddenly like you. If you kiss a friend and its not mutual, the frienship isnt ruined. If she turns her head, but keeps flirting, it means the moment wasnt right.
Thats what I mean by "it means nothing". In the two first here, she is clarely not interested, so stop. In the last one she is uncertain and needs to know you better first.
But me and a lot of guys here could gain a lot from just going for the kisd
[–]recyclablebanthas1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I should have explained nr 6 better.
We're good, just try to remember for the future.... Some hard cases, which are a lot of the audience here, will take everything literally.
[–]MajorMaxPain 62 points63 points64 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Yooo, this only 9 tips! I want my 10th tip!
[–]Philipparty[S] 68 points69 points70 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Better, Ill give you three😉
Being direct is always best. Dont missinterpret me and just say you want to fuck, but clearely show interest. Or as a coach would say "let her know you have a dick"
Small talk is ok. Borkng conversations are ok. As long as it doesnt get stale. You dont need to go super deep. If you can jump around and change topics, its fine. The reason girls like "funny guys" or "deep topic guys" is because they are able to relax enught around the girl to be themselves. (And girls like good listeners=guys who can pay attention to what I say instead of trying to plan the next move)
Any planing is manipulation, and everyone hates manipulation. Never plan what youre going to say. This just puts to much value on said line and dissapoints you. Also, youre not being yourself and reading the situation.
[–]MajorMaxPain 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Thanks man! My comment was more meant to be funny, as I’m generally more of a funny guy/ clown. But sooner rather than later I really should grow a pair and apply some of your (and all the other) tips.
But if I’m completely honest I get really panicky whenever I even consider to engage seriously with women. I can’t tell you (or me) why that is and tried several times to find the reason with my female best friend but I’m still clueless why I am so terrified.
Im not very tall and in my childhood/young adolescence I got not much attention from girls, have problems with my face etc. , but I guess I’m not bad looking now (probably don’t believe it thou...)
Sorry for rambling around, guess I just needed to but it out into the void of the net.
[–]Philipparty[S] 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I got the joke, I was trying to be funny back😂
In this context your age ofcourse matter a lot. If youre in your teens you might just not feel ready. But besides that, It sounds like sexual shame. It could be somethibg small, like a fetish you have that youre not proud of, or something big like being shamed for doing "sexual" things as a child. (Like playing with your dong in public).
Or ofcourse, It could all lead back to the internal unworthyness. Personally, I camt fisnish the first time with a girl, cause I still feel like I dont disserve to be there. But its better than getting nowhere.
If its any of these three here are some tips (if its not, send me a message, and Ill see if I can help ;) ) (Age) just wait. If youbwant to speed it up, get more mature friends. The popular kids are are a safe start. (Shame) "shame thrives in the dark and dies in the light" the only way to break shame is to express it. Back to the guilt one. Start talking about sex. Tell a girl youre getting physical woth that you get anxious. Talk about porn with your buddies. Its best woth male friends and potential mates. (Unworthy) meditate to get out of your head, and take actions that go agaisnt what you belive. You could be experiencing dissonance when breaking your belif-pattern
[–]MajorMaxPain 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, i hoped so, but didnt want to accidentally offend you. :D
I'm probably much older than you might think at 26 years. And it's not like I never had a relationship, or short flings. But all of these happend because the women who liked me took the initiative. (Light) flirting isn't my problem, and once the girl kisses me all that fear vanishes and I have no problem at all (not 100% true: I have a problem cumming while having sex, because I think too much. I probably should start meditating again, as I have the feeling that helped.
On the topic of my fetishes etc. I'm on the kinkier site of the spectrum, but about most of it I'm open about, the more secret stuff I never got shamed for from my ex, so that nice. Maybe that I got shamed for doing something "sexual" as child, but then I might have repressed it as I can't remember a situation like this. But on this topic I remember that my family often made fun of me, but we made for of everyone (still do) but not to be mean, thats just our thing. Maybe I still took it personally in my mind. IDK.
I also talk about sex, mostly with my female BF, or other female friends, as I have a problem opening up to my male friends, just my BF knows a little more that the rest. So I see that there might lay an issue.
I thing you hit the nail on the head there! There is no particular bad memory that I have, but this belive-pattern that I formed is very solid (and probably wrong) and I urgently need to break it to get better. I already achieved so much in my life that I can be proud of, I shouldn't fear breaking this pattern! Thanks for listening to me! :)
[–]Philipparty[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No problem dude. Im always glad to help. The way youre saying it now, it seems like it might just be that you put a lot of feeling into it, and thats not a bad thing. You just need to get used to it.
But yeah, on the male friends thing, No More MrNice Guy has a lot of things to say on why it is so important for men to have a lot of male friends. I cant remember it word for word, and if I try its foing to sound like a Freudian nightmare, but his daughters boyfriend fixed a lot of his issues by joining the army and getting male friends. So start with step 1 😉
[–]Barabbas- 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Any planing is manipulation, and everyone hates manipulation. Never plan what youre going to say.
Minor caveat on this point: "Rehersed" lines are lame and transparent, but I generally keep a few tried and true stories/activities in my back pocket that can be worked into a conversation or transitioned to easily.
Its also not a bad idea to survey your date spots in advance looking for secondary and tertiary locations. You always want to have a "plan" to change things up if the timing feels right.
Basically: don't be a robot, but "planning" a date is not a bad thing. It's not manipulative unless you're being disingenuous.
[–]Philipparty[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
True true. Planing locations, events, and activites are important. And ofcourse,say you have a good story or joke you love that happens to be situationally apropriate. Thats good too.
Im thinking more the "when I see her Ill say this" "and back at my place ill say and do this to touch her". Cause thats wierd
[–]electric-eclipse 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Aye, I got you you fam
[–]UserNam3ChecksOut 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I've been crushing #7
[–]johnweak23 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
F
[–]cryptedp 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
lol as I even need to try for number 7
[–]Philipparty[S] 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There is a difference between "not gettign laid" and chosing "Im not going to sleep with anyone untill x date". You kindnof take power over it. And Ironically, I broke it thee days in, cause my longest drought since starting game ended three days after
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If a girl rejects you trying to kiss them. It doesn’t mean try again or to “press harder”. It means no, dude. What the actual fuck. No always means no.
[–]Visualize_ 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I don't think you should press harder, but there are times you 100% should try again because there's different levels of rejection. Its possible to go for it too early but she still likes you, so no means no at that current time, but its good to take a step or two back and recalibrate and then consider trying again. Obviously not immediately and obviously not if its a true outright rejection
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It just means no, dude. When someone says no, it means no. If they give in later after you persist it’s out of feeling pressured and it is astoundingly not okay. A lot of your advice was good. But take that one out. It isn’t okay. It will never be okay.
[–]throwMeAwayTa 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Except in the original post he didn't say anything about them saying no. You said a rejected kiss means 'no', when in some cases it might mean 'not right now'.
Also:
No always means no.
Do you understand why many couples have 'safe words'?
Oh for the OP: Tip 1 is the most often repeated suggestion in this group. It's the orthodox, not unorthodox.
Mostly I meant: going for the kiss wont ruin everything. If youre hanging out with a female frind and you go for the kiss and she rejects you, that doesnt mean the friendship is over. It means she didnt want the kiss. And you can move on. And never "try harder". Cool down, see if she still wants to flirt with you or not.
And on the "keep trying part" obviously no means no. But what if youre feeling eachother up,you try to kiss her, she moves her head so you kiss her cheek, but she gets more touchy? Thats a no, but she kissed me back later.
Or if you kiss someone and then you talk about it. That could just be the shock talking, and she could be happy you kissed het.
Both of these are "no'es" where the girl kept showing interest and even initiated afterwards. Kind of a "not yet" response. A hard no on the other hand is allways a no. If she seems stressed, scared, angey, apathetic, or leaves, then you should not keep trying.
[–]antoniaalexandria 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I will say a lot of these aren’t bad but a couple are a little meh. Especially about not feeling guilt, there are definitely situations where a guy can take it too far and feeling guilty isn’t a bad thing
[–]Philipparty[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Thats fair. The guilt one is supposed to be more of a selfdevelopment-mindsett. I dont know of there are other words for it, bit in the situation you said, the man can either think: "man, took it to far, Im such an awfull person" or "I went to far. I disserve to be a guy women feel good around, so I should fix that issue". But the guys who go to far are usually not the ones who have issues with being guilty about what theyre doing
[–]antoniaalexandria 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I do think that men should feel guilt for something like that. As someone who has been pushed too much by many men, it’s scary.
[–]Philipparty[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Also, thats why I added "no more mr nice guy" as the first point. It really hammers in how and why guys do things that girls dont like, amd ofcourse, how to stop doing that
[–]antoniaalexandria 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I guess as someone who has had this done to them, I can’t be that sympathetic. It’s very stressful and upsetting when it happens.
[–]Philipparty[S] -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ofcourse. I cant even imagine how uncomfortable that feels. All I know is that guilt and shaming is a very unefficient way to change someone. Dont have sympathy for them, but help them (and others) avoid feeling like they need to to such again.
And as someone who went to far once, I know how it can be related to guilt and unworthyness (its sometimes a manic attemt at manipulation), so the best way to stop others from doing that would be to remove these factors. After all, if they think doing it is the only way theyll get validation, they will eventually become desperate enught to do something horrible. And we both wish to stop that.
[–]antoniaalexandria 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it’s just something we will have to disagree on.
[–]Philipparty[S] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
True, but as stated it is ment for people who have to much guilt. Im note sure if a person would go so far because they think they need to compensate, or because they think they disserve to go that far. And I would be prone to belive that a guy who belifes himself worthy wouldt need to do that. So less guilt could remove those pushy/manipulative attempts. But annyways, it was meant for self development. V
I specifically tried to use this articles view on guilt as the example: https://medium.com/swlh/you-get-in-life-what-you-believe-you-deserve-heres-how-to-upgrade-that-belief-7a77dedeeeaf
[–]AlphaSavageBratch 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Who is the Author? Robert Glover?
Yes. Havent read his other works tho
[–]Surrbachi 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Is that book really as good as it seems I see a lot of recommendations?
[–]Philipparty[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It really is. Not only does it give a lot of insight to help the average "nice guy" player, but it also explains why "nice guy(tm)" and incels are the way they are. Pluss a lot of cases, refrence experiences and exercises
[–]warfunder 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I started hating my parents after I started reading it.
[–]NickyD_ 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Interesting. Do you think with these types of methods will give you more “bad” girls? It seems like girls who would respond to these types of acts are the types that probably are more on the “hoey” side. Im trying to not be so direct in my verbiage to not offend or whatever. I think girls who are worth long term would not be attracted by this. Let me know what you think. Ill definitely be applying these methods I just gotta get out of my comfort and cold approach.
Man I wish I could get more "bad" girls. Sounds less complicated. This has worked wonders on both sweet and kind girls. Havent you heard the classic wuote "to be able to attract one girl, you must be able to attract all girls"
[–]WanyCaleb 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There's one thing I believe you forgot. Practice and easing into those habits/tips.
[–]GoldSmith64 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thank you for these great tips. I’m gonna snag that book first chance I get
Its on kindle and audiable
[–]Prateekanshz2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
"And don't let the entitlement get into your head "
[–]bubbleburgz 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This book has changed EVERYTHING I knew about myself. A must read for men
[–]bochl1n 5 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Jokes on you OP! Im a pro at tip 7. I havent had sex in 16 years
[–]Philipparty[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
...are you 16? Weather or not you are, try it. Youre not having sex anyways, so just decide "ill flirt and go on dates, but I wont have sex untill december or newyear" and repeat that mantra regularely. Youd be suprised how relaxed you feel when you take controll of it, and stop needing it
[–]bochl1n 5 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Do basically Im just playing hard to get? I think i Can do that. And Ye Im 16 :)
[–]Philipparty[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If youre 16 its a starting period, not a dry period ;)
And ish. Its not really playing hard to get, its more of a "take controll of the situation" and "flirt woth girls without it having to lead to sex" mindsett.
It might be harder now due to corona, but at your age being the popular kid will give you tons of perks, cause girls are really superficial in their teens. Just ask any teen movie😂
Bond with the cool kids, get lots of male friends, go to parties, dress well and look helathy, and keep these mindsetts. Will definately help your highschool game
[–]bochl1n 5 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Thats What Im doing :) Ive Been obsessing with self improvement for like a year and ive made a lot of progress and friends at my New school. Now Im working being a flirt and touch to attract more girls. I feel like its Been working cuz girls hit me up more and talk to me longer
Proud of you ma. Keep it up
[–]Pringles__ 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
I see that you read "No More Mr Nice Guy" and that you understood its main points but this advice is a bit meh. It basically tells people to "wait" before doing anything, which isn't what you should be doing here: "read this book", "take a week", "no sex monotorium".
Plus, the book doesn't tell you what seduction is about. It just allows you to become more selfish and to put your needs before others', which is of course beneficial by itself.
Read Models by Mark Manson if you want to complete your knowledge.
True. This isnt a compleate transformation list, but a way to help people grow. Theyve helped me a lot. And ofcourse, those "take a weak" "choose not to have sex" is more of a way to gain controll and find your and others limits.
Also, should I read Models or Way of the superior man first?
[–]Pringles__ 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I haven't read "the way of the superior man" so I don't know. All I can do is advise you to read "Models". I made a post after reading No More Mr Nice Guy (here) and a post after reading Models (here). You can read the latter if you want to know what you can expect by reading Models.
It's also important for you not to fall on narcissism. You must of course put your needs before others' but you also give unconditionally and you must calibrate as much as you escalate.
It's not about being selfish, it's about thinking about yourself before others first, but still thinking about others.
Well said. Seduction is about conection. But for us in the nice guy corner, conection is hard, cause you dont belive the real you disserves them. Those tips helped me get out of that.
But yeah, Ill get on Models
[–]Pringles__ 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't worry, you'll get there. I was a nice guy as well but I managed to get out of this toxic mindset.
I dated a 9-10/10 girl, instead of thinking whether I deserved her or not, I was thinking whether I wanted her in my life or not. Turns out she was very insecure and she didn't know her worth, which turned me off.
[–]RememberThis09 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Could you elaborate on tip 3? How do you go about DMing people like that? I don't really see the usefulness of it because people like models and pornstars get a hundred DMs a day from creeps.
Its more of a hyperbole. Do anything a person of worth would do. It doesnt matter if you get a response, its the act of doing it. Same wkth day game. Even if you get rejected, you still eventually feel like someone worthy if talking to hot women at daytime. It breaks the unworthyness patterns
[–]qnaasty 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Get advice. But holy fuck i had a hard time reading that. Lol
[–]Philipparty[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah sorry. Im dyslectic so writing isnt really my forté.
[–]qnaasty 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
All good bro
[–]dbrown1990 -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Number 5 though... It's real...
Years ago I watched a girl play a dating app, guys with good pictures, physiques, everything, just getting massacred. Usually the problem was she didn't like his name, or his smile was weird. The smallest of things will get you left swiped.
If you're a guy with abs then just post a pic with your shirt off and go for ONS, don't bother trying to find a stable gf on those sorts of apps.
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