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[–][deleted] 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ulanyouknow[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
All very good points
[–]tickledpic 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Manson is very contradictory. At the start of the book he explains all the benefits of being honest and authentic. By the end of the book he has given you BS pua tactics (cold-read, etc) so you can talk to women about random stuff that has nothing to do with your desires (the actual reason you are talking to her).
So he starts by preaching authenticity, ends by preaching "just pretend you want to talk about random stuff, so she would see your personality"
[–][deleted] 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]tickledpic 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
If you think she's attractive, but personality sucks, don't just make random conversation to get in her pants.
If I still want to fuck her, how is it authentic for me to rejected her even if I want her?
the more time you spend making random conversation with girls you don't like is time wasted.
Exactly. Then why would I make long conversations in the first place? How can I know if the girl I'm delivering my cold read will reciprocate my desire to fuck. If I don't know that before the cold-read then any time spent on cold-reading is a potentially wasted time.
And how is a cold-read even relavent to my desires? If I'm seeking short-term casual sex, what the fuck has her hobbies and shit has to do with anything. I don't care about any of that stuff before she has sucked my dick. After dick sucking has taken place, sure I would love to get to know if I'm interested long-term...
So from the moment I see her and feel a desire to approach her, I know I want have sex with her. All the other non-sexually stuff comes later. How is it authentic to talk about anything but sex?
[–][deleted] 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]tickledpic 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
You don't have to ask her. You tell her. First I get know if she is willing to spend time with me in general - "I find you attractive, we should meet up sometime". If she agrees, then my usual thing is "Ultimately, I would love to see you naked in my bed". Then we exchange numbers and I call her to discuss in what kind of sex we will engage in.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]tickledpic -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
The point is if Manson would preach authenticity he would recommend being direct. Whatever your intentions are casual or serious. Instead he only talked about how to better talk about non-sexual topics... with the hope of getting her sexual interest. That is not authenticity. That is being a pussy and hiding your desires in fear of rejection.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]tickledpic 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Lol, I already do. I just don't like when people say they are honest and authentic while they are not.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I finished to read Models recently. By only applying some basic concept in that book, a lot of things radically changed during my interactions with others. I already knew many things, some of them are part of my inner self since years, but the book helped a lot anyway to get a bigger picture, especially since I've been out of this game for almost 2 decades.
[–]Foxxz 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
He got good at it because he worked on the points made in his book. He found his way and wrote that book based off being shit like the rest of us in the beginning. No one just becomes good at it.
[–]SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
In No More Mr. Nice Guy they point out a seriously major flaw with Models and other related books: "It's like giving dynamite to children." In other words, women not being attracted to you probably isn't directly because you don't comb your hair. You don't comb your hair because you have problems, and she's not attracted to guys with problems. Suppose you comb your hair, and now you've landed an LTR... at heart you really still are a guy with issues - relationship problems ensue. I've seen it with many people who read Models. Of course they lose the way somewhere, but it's probably because of how the book frames the whole thing.
Another way to think about it, it's like finding a cheat that lets you fight the Final Four without beating Giovanni. Giovanni is not the problem, he is there to make you take the Final Four seriously. Because if you skip him, you are almost guaranteed to get your ass handed to you on the first of the Final Four. If you can beat him and get in the right strategy, there's no reason you can't have a relatively painless Final Four. Core idea is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
It's kind of presented as laying the groundwork for attraction, and it does that. But regardless of intentions, it ultimately ends up feeding more into the "you just have to trick her long enough to get into her apartment"-style than the "learn how to seek your own approval instead of a girl's." And I know that's kind of the thesis of the book, but in practice, in almost every case, it's a cheat code that sets you up to fail.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well I don’t think so. I’ve given it to several people over the years (I first read it in 2013) and regardless of what it says, I can tell you what really happened. Guys including myself ended up with the wrong idea. It gives you the tools to be smooth, but doesn’t address the underlying issues that caused you to be not smooth.
You can put lipstick on a pig...
Really, I don’t think it was his intention. It’s just what ends up. The books that really help you fix those issues, nobody argues over the meaning of it. NMMNG is a great example. It’s because the gift at the end of Models is a girl, and the gift at the end of NMMNG is being someone who doesn’t see the value in a book that gets you a girl. My neighbor has a girl right now who’s currently screaming at him that he doesn’t give her enough money and it’s unfair. What does Models say about that? Lol. That’s the reality, it’s a pickup book for girls under 25 (eh 22?) but it doesn’t really get to the core of how that “neediness” will just keep popping back up.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]FlakeyGhost 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Describe your looks.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]FlakeyGhost 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
No amount of book reading and gaming can replace good looks. Start with grooming and weight loss. Don’t get too deep into game before you even take care of your fundamentals.
[–]DizzyxSin 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Sorry bud but you don't even have a drop of self worth and self respect. How can any girls even be attracted to you? I'm just as short and "ethnic" as you are, and fucking wish I lived where you live for all the beautiful, tall Dutch women.
[–]bemore_ 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Honestly I think mansons models is sheep food. It's good for people with lighter levels of self awareness, hence masses. It's the likes of the mode one book. Not that simple stuff is bad but that there's better stuff out there.
The holy grail is probably the book of pook, followed very closely by 60yearsofchallenge .. and a handful of others that have made a massive contribution to bring awareness to this space.
If I could give my imaginary son one book before death, it would be pooks. It may take him 10 years to get it but it once he does, the world is his vs giving him Models which will help him right now but no further
[–]FlakeyGhost 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What differs between the two fundamentally?
[–]FinanceJobHelp 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Never heard of these. Reading the book of pook now since it's free.
https://bookofpook.neocities.org/#ch-0
[–]Beetlejuice_hero 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I've read it. To me it boiled down to 2 pretty straightforward ideas:
1) Have your shit together, ex: career, fitness ("no excuses" he says, which I wholeheartedly agree with), groom/be clean, dress decently, put some effort into making your apartment welcoming & female friendly, etc.
2) Play it cool & don't be needy, ex: I texted a girl I wanted to date and with whom I got along well to wish her Happy Birthday. No response for days. Instead of follow up texts, I thought "oh well..." and forgot about it. She finally texts me "Hey sorry I was camping and had no cell service...!" (which was true, I heard about the trip later) and we got together later that week and went on a date then had sex at my place.
It's a worthwhile read for sure, but I didn't find it much more complicated than that.
[–]Kenic_In_MD 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Play it cool & don't be needy
Boy do i need to work on this
[–]Kenic_In_MD 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I might give it a shot, a bit hesitant of that particular book though.
[–]Moderatorrecyclablebanthas 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I encourage you to! Why are you hesitant, if you don't mind me asking?
Manson's blog is better and more up to date than his book, really.
[–]Kenic_In_MD 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I am not interested in this PUA stuff, i am more into the actual seduction things. Don't get me wrong PUA is great and works very well but it's not what I'm looking for right now. Maybe i'll change my mind. Gimmie a snippit, what paragraph in that book helped you the most?
[–]Kenic_In_MD 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
hmm thanks, i will take a look when i have some more time.
[–]gtrman571 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That’s exactly what the book is though
[–]sNajw0w 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bought it, thx bro
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Book is great, really enjoyed the part about communication where he addresses stuff like cold reading, etc..
Still, The Art of Seduction takes top 1 for me.
[–]420KUSHBUSH 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As it should
[–]Atreyu27 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ive read models, MM, The Game, 48 laws of power, and a few more. I dont believe one book is show all. Like style did when he started learn from everyone and then make your own way.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
What results have u made from following his advice op?
Sounds good bro keep it up
[–]Don_Malik 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Where can I find a good summary of Models?
[–]Don_Malik 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Have you had success with this book?
[–]Kenic_In_MD 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'll take you up on this, thanks
[–]A_solo_tripper 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I have not read this book. However, after reading several comments about it, it seems like it is a mix of radical honesty, Mode One, and bits from The Game.
Anyone else concur?
[–]AndrewChengOnReddit 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I swear to god these shitposts i see all over the internet must be from mark manson himself. The book is incredibly dull and basic and covers nothing useful except common sense for handsome men.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]HereForTheMaymays 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not about seduction at all but by that remark you’d like Shoe Dog by Phil Knight, the creator of Nike
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