Rant ... Don't Hate ... Discuss

n3kr0n · 2013-12-20T11:02:30+00:00

Yes, in general looks matter.

Thing is, guys are goddamn lucky when it comes to looks compared to women. Before you really get to call yourself ugly, you can go through these steps first:

start training, every guy can be slim and slightly muscular
really invest time into finding good fitting clothing. 2-3 great outfits are better than 10 mediocre ones
try different haircuts (and yes, you have to try more than just sides short, longer top + tons of product before giving up) and different glasses if you wear them (or try contacts)
eliminate the worst food offenders from your diet and see if it improves skin tone

If a guy really invests in all of these things, im willing to bet, that 99% of guys can get positive attention from many women.

i-heart-progress · 2013-12-20T12:22:42+00:00

Being attractive and being good looking are two different things but being attractive gets you laid. Looks do not matter.

Why keep people in this sub praising this? Expierience. I hate being judgy but this topic forces me to be: if you ask me former mod tofutofu is not handsome nor in shape from what i saw but he has success and so is RSD Tyler aka Owen, this guy is short, is a ginger, ridiculous beard and has thin hair. Owen knows and is aware that he is farfrom being handsome but he built true confidence, outcome indepencence and other valuable psychological tools.

if you say to yourself "im ugly as fuck, girls hate me and i will nevet get laid" thats your reality and thats how the world will see you, drowning in self-pity, self-destructive, passive-aggtrssive, in one word: unattractive.

if you say to yourself everyday when you wake up and every time you see a mirror: "fuck, this guy here is a pussy magnet. women are all over him. i understand, as a woman i would fuck the shit out of him too", soon this will be your reality. people will see a self-loving confident guy.

how do i know that? i did it myself. i heard this advise a lot but never followed it because i thought it cant be so simple. but one day i met a guy who was seriously dead ugly. he had almost no teeth and what was left was rotten, his clothes were sort of new age hippy and he wore no shoes during summer season. he said totally self-convinced: "im tired that all the women are so into me. all this being chased annoys me." i thought this guy must be blind and out of his mind until a lady said about him" ohhhh man that [guy] is sooo handsome, i bet he can get every girl." i thought she was making fun of him. she was not.

the point is women do not value looks as men do, even though they might say so. most women cant tell the difference between attractiveness and beauty themselves. this is why women advise in pick-up in most cases has no value or is any helpfull. they are clueless. women are more sensitive to emotions, not logic(looks). for christ sake, do yourself a favor and try this.

2013-12-20T13:53:01+00:00

Your problem isn't your looks. Your problem could be a large range of things which might be hard to diagnose without seeing you in person.

I can go and approach women pretty confidently but for some reason they never want to dance with me or go ahead from that.

Maybe you aren't approaching as confidently as you think you are. Maybe your "energy" (i.e. emotional state) isn't well-suited for the environment (e.g. coming in too low-energy on a pumped up dance floor or too high-energy at a library). Maybe you're validation seeking. Maybe you're not congruent. Maybe you don't have clarity of intent. Maybe you're being awkward/have a lack of overall social intuition. Maybe a combination of multiple things. Etc. etc. etc.

Some girls will immediately reject you for your looks, but those are the exception to the rule, NOT the rule. The problem that 99.99% guys have is somewhere in the above paragraph.

the whole game needs to be tweaked slightly for guys who are not that good looking. Maybe, the route a good looking can take e.g approaching at nightclubs etc does not work for guys who may not be that good looking.

Every single guy who has sex follows the same exact principles. They're implemented differently from guy to guy (everyone has a different personality, style, etc.), but at the end of the day, they're doing the same thing.

Am I wrong in thinking this? Any experiences you guys have that negates this argument I have developed in my mind? Could I be doing something wrong?

Yes, and unfortunately, it's hard to tell what the problem is without knowing who you are. You can try your best to write a detailed post, giving an example interaction/open/set/etc., but that itself may not be very helpful since it doesn't seem as though you know what you don't know (so you wouldn't know what to put into the post). Try taking a video of yourself or record yourself in a set.

bl1y · 2013-12-20T13:57:58+00:00

Here you go

joshsway · 2013-12-20T14:26:03+00:00

Yes, looks matter, but they are not all that matter. Looks is one form of value. If you put pictures of a really good looking guy, they have a lot of value, so a lot of girls who are lower value will just throw themselves at the guy and do whatever it takes based on the value generated by their looks alone. However, you can generate high value in other ways.

Also, you can at least get a good body unless you have certain health issues or disabilities. A really good body even with an ugly face can get you women based on your LOOKS believe it or not.

puntingbaxter · 2013-12-20T20:09:55+00:00

I'm tall and good looking.

I experience many more opportunities with a lot less effort due to that.

For instance, women like to orbit around me if they find me attractive.

Some screening is already done.

VMikeL · 2013-12-20T11:16:00+00:00

Looks are a subjective thing, and the great thing about being male, is that the spectrum of what is "attractive" is so wide. Granted, if you're the elephant man, sure, you have a physical appearance challenge, but otherwise it's more your effort and/or character than it is your actual image. If you are well dressed, clean, and ambitious, that is attractive. Being a male model is in no way a certainty that women will be attracted to you.

HappyJerk · 2013-12-20T13:01:37+00:00

First of all, looks matter.

But, looks matter a lot less to girls than they to guys.

Secondly, a guy can improve his looks significantly through some easy steps - dress better, cut his hair/beard in a way that looks clean, fix problems with this skin, etc...

Finally, any guy can become "hot" in a 3 year period if they work out and eat right. It's not rocket science.

surfinfan21 · 2013-12-20T17:14:49+00:00

Looks matter. And I would argue against the seddit community that looks matter a lot. When I look around a bar and see the guys approaching women, almost always they are pretty good looking guys.

Check out /r/malefashionadvice though that can improve your appearance a lot.

It's amazing how much clothes can make you more attractive.

Also I think there is something to be said about having a different type of game if you are not as good looking. I'm lucky enough that I'm pretty good looking. I'm average height, athletic build, brazilian so I have olive skin, and I'm very unique looking. So fortunately looks have never been much of a problem for me but I do think that game is different. For example I notice that the more attractive you are the more cocky you can be without coming off as a dick.

However I had a friend in college who was really ugly. 5 10 or 5 11 slinky body type. His facial hair was like a 16 year old boy and his hair was always a mess and his skin was pretty nasty because he lived off grilled cheese. However he got laid more than anyone I knew in college. He was dating three girls at one time when I was on a 4 month dry spell. So I think it's possible. I think it helps to find something unique and awesome about yourself and exploit it.

torquesteer · 2013-12-20T19:01:13+00:00

Looks matter not in the way that you think it does. The funny thing about attraction is that women are attractive just being themselves, whereas men create attraction. Judging by your post, you seem like a guy who cares about his looks in the wrong way. You should care about how you carry yourself. That includes living a healthy lifestyle and making wise choices with your body. You shouldn't care whether someone finds your particular type of look attractive or not.

There are worse physical things than looks that women care about. Things like height, skin color, and (to some extent) the size of your member. Yet we all need to figure out how to get over it and you should too. In the end, how you make her feel about her own body is more important than how she feels about yours.

colucci · 2013-12-20T22:30:30+00:00

I am ugly as fuck, I have accepted the fact. I don't pity myself since other things in my life are in order but I really feel that the general notion of looks not mattering much is a bit forced in this community.

You got it wrong. I've said it before and I'll repeat - looks don't matter as long as you're not ugly. If you're ugly, you would have a hard time dating anyone outside of your league. Or if you do want to, you better be stinking rich so go study asap.

Maybe, the route a good looking can take e.g approaching at nightclubs etc does not work for guys who may not be that good looking.

Naturally, this does not even need to be said. Nightclubs are shallow, ugly guys will not fare well there.

As for 'tweaking game', you're basically going to have to compensate for your genetic shortcomings with social value. What brings social value? Money. Frankly, that would probably only help so much and would attract the wrong kind of girls. Best bet is to date within your league rather than going for the hotties.

2013-12-21T15:54:38+00:00

I'll assume you are referring to have an ugly face. That's tough to fix, along with height. Fortunately, everything else is relatively easy to improve (almost any mam can stamd up straight, dress well, keep healthy skin, and train to ottermode).

looks matter, but not in the way you seem to think. It's a first impressions thing, your actions and words have to be congruent with your appearance for the first few minutes. Yes, the hot guy has more leeway for direct game ("I saw you walk in and just had to come talk to you"). Less handsome men need to practice indirect game, demonstrate their value (humor, confidence, social savvy) in a way that is not blatantly hitting on her, and modify her first impression, "priming" her to see him as a Man worth considering. There is plenty of indirect game material out there to work with, find some and give it a shot.

I've never tried online dating, so I can't help you there, but IRL approaches are still possible. Just prepare the field before you really get your game on.

Smiles_27 · 2013-12-20T10:03:15+00:00

I'm not generally considered a good looking guy (Fat, skin condition, balding, no job) but I get attraction due to my demeanor

That said, OKC and POF rely on snap judgements based off physical appearance. Online dating can totoally work for some guys, but i'm telling you... If you have problems connecting with women, taking out the human equation certainly wont help

mindfully_liberated · 2013-12-20T19:34:45+00:00

I can't stand this topic, because it gives guys an excuse to put themselves down, and not approach.

Ask yourself this, do you get mad when someone "claims" you think a certain way?

It may be extreme, but what would you think if someone came out of nowhere and said hey you racicts!

You'd be like wtf? I'm not racists.

So who the fuck are you to say whether a girl is gonna find you attractive or not? How about you approach and find out.

This game is so cyclic in theories and techniquese it's kinda funny.

Look at the world of pick up 10 years ago. The whole arguement was "How many times have you seen a really ugly nerd with a super hotty around his arm?" What does he have that you don't?

It's quite pathetic, if you think your looks are what's hurting your batting average, guess what? You suck at this game, and you should find a new hobby.

Title	Rant ... Don't Hate ... Discuss
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	10
Comments	22
Date	December 20, 2013 9:50 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1tbe34/rant_dont_hate_discuss/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/rant-dont-hate-discuss.1363345 https://theredarchive.com/post/1363345

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