Where is the line between courage and neediness?

vi1xi · 2013-06-26T02:36:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

recyclablebantha · 2013-06-26T06:18:53+00:00

I have never ever even once seen another guy cold approach a girl outside of a bar or party setting. So, to me, it's a pretty obvious fact of life that most people don't approach strangers.

Who knows how often it is? What does it matter?

Today, after I impotently walked past an amazing girl in a too-short sundress, the question on my mind was whether the reason for most people's behavior was a lack of courage or the absence of neediness.

Neediness is incredibly common.

It could be lack of courage (fear), motivation, or complacency, but I couldn't say which ones, in what percentages. Again, how would this answer matter to you?

I have very few friends and even less luck in love, and while I don't like these facts, I'm not bitter about them, and I daily find ways to enjoy life in spite of them.

First of all, you haven't proven these things for the general populace, as mere observation of the people YOU happen to see everyday does not equal scientific proof. So these aren't facts yet.

Secondly, even if you prove them for the general populace, that says nothing specific for you. It determines nothing for you.

Still, there's no way to deny that, compared to those who have friends and a steady social life, I'm in a deficient position and "in need" of others.

Many people are in need. This is the closest thing to fact that you've mentioned. Most people have a way of forming attachments to people or attachments to ideas about how their attachments should be, that directly lead to rather needless pain.

From this standpoint, it's not a huge leap to think that maybe the reason nobody else is driven to approach is because they never felt they had to, like I do.

See, now you've gone from something that you haven't proven (your pronouncements about the general populace), to applying that data to yourself when it doesn't necessarily apply, to a statement that doesn't make much sense.

Why would people who NEED some attachment come to the conclusion that they don't need to approach? Logic would seem to dictate that people who need an attachment, go looking for it. We see that borne out all over the place. People who need a BF or GF, actively say they are looking for one, etc.

Over the last month and a half I've approached 6 girls, a breakthrough for me, but every time I did, I felt needy and imploring in the interaction, even after I was no longer visibly shaking.

Yes. Because you hold values about yourself and about relationships that lead to you putting so much pressure on yourself, that you're unable to actually connect with people normally. You're coming at them in a way that's not offering them anything, but trying to take from them and doubting your own value at the same time. Of course it's going to feel awkward and probably drive people away.

Thinking about it, 98% of the people who approach me are salesmen, missionaries, or cons, which surely makes me doubt my own actions.

You just compared yourself to people who have negative connotations, in your mind. Why? You're missing an opportunity to fact-check your own thoughts here and you're allowing thoughts to run rampant and bring you down. Know it or not, this is a choice.

What you've done is roughly equivalent to saying, "Criminals go into the bank to rob it, so I should feel nervous if I go into a bank."

Anyway, to wrap this up, what makes an approach courageous, and what makes it needy?

This is a false choice. Your mindset is what makes this a choice between needy and courageous, not reality. You only require courage because of how you build all of this up. Neediness only rears its head because of how you build all of this up.

I talk to strangers like I talk to anyone. They're just people. I talk to girls, more or less, like I talk to guys or anyone else, really. (Except for the obvious difference that, IF I think they're cool and THEY'VE passed the preliminaries with me, then I'll start flirting with them.)

birdwontquit · 2013-06-26T15:56:16+00:00

Your mentality when approaching is "she's beautiful, I want to see what she's like". You don't need anything from her, she has piqued your curiousity and you want to find out more. That's all. Lose the mindset that you "need" her to add value to your life. You are seeing if it's possible that the two of you can mutually improve each other's lives through fun, good company, and maybe sex.

incraved · 2013-06-26T16:22:10+00:00

You are overthinking it. Be outcome-independent and keep approaching women until you get comfortable with it. Remember that when you start, your goal is to get used to doing this and being confident in general. You are basically "conquering" your fears, defeating your anxiety. You are not doing it and expecting to get a number/date.

Getting results will come naturally later when you get comfortable with this. Btw, 6 girls in 1.5 months is nothing.

itsmevichet · 2013-06-26T18:01:24+00:00

what makes an approach courageous

Independence from theoretical outcomes. Success and failure are both acceptable. Success, obviously, is preferable, and the direction your self-improvement pushes you towards.

, and what makes it needy

Dependence on outcomes. You NEED these people to accept you. You NEED approval and emotional support from them. You're a consumer, and are coming to the table thinking it's a soup kitchen instead of a potluck.

That's neediness.

Gelnn · 2013-06-26T17:45:08+00:00

Models has a good take on this.

Nebula829 · 2013-06-27T00:03:00+00:00

what makes an approach courageous, and what makes it needy?

Where your mindset is. Ask yourself why you are going up to this girl to talk to her. If it's to get laid, you're going to have problems. First off you'll feel pressure because you feel like you have to accomplish something with her, and second this intent to get something from her will be telegraphed in your mannerisms.

Try this: Next time you go out don't try to get a number, kiss or anything. The reason I say this is because I feel like you may need to learn first how to not be nervous around women. Start with the basics and just start talking about stuff with no intent or purpose to the conversation other than to just meet someone new. Sounds odd but that's how it works. You actually stop trying to seduce the girl and end up seducing her.

As far as not seeing a cold approach I think that depends on your definition of cold because when you do it right it doesn't seem cold at all. If there's a girl in front of me at the bar, it's not a cold approach anymore because I have context, I'll say to her, "Hey, would you do me a favor and take my money and buy me a vodka tonic? I've been waiting forever and it seems like hot girls always get their drinks faster." It's one of my favorites I don't know how the community would view it but I've had nothing but good luck with it (if the bartender is female I just make it sound like, "Dang, you freaking got the girl to come over! How'd you do that!"). They usually appreciate the creative way to tell them you find them attractive, and they are cool with talking to you. All you need is an excuse. Even a tiny one.

Colonelfudgenustard · 2013-06-26T02:03:26+00:00

It seems a cold approach would suggest a lack of other legitimate opportunities, so it would look needy and sort of disqualify you from the outset. Still it must work for some people.

dirtyeggs · 2013-06-26T05:38:32+00:00

You need to have go with the flow mentality.

Title	Where is the line between courage and neediness?
Author	story-of-my-penis
Upvotes	19
Comments	16
Date	June 26, 2013 1:56 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1h2w16/where_is_the_line_between_courage_and_neediness/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/where-is-the-line-between-courage-and-neediness.1354524 https://theredarchive.com/post/1354524

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