Change.org petition against the Australian premiere screening of 'The Red Pill'. Can you spot the errors?

Muesli_nom · 2016-10-24T11:03:17+00:00

Has there ever been a change.org petition that has actually accomplished anything?

Anyway, from the comments:

This is a disgusting film with a disgusting message. You may complain about this petition trying to censor freedom of speech, but what you don't understand is the different between freedom of speech and freedom of consequence. Freedom of speech allowed this film to be made.

Feminists tried to stop that too.

This is not a documentary, it is a dangerous propaganda film masquerading as an 'unbiased documentary' when in reality it was funded largely by the 'Mens Rights' movement and 'Red Pill' community.

Didn't Cassie get most of the filming done before she had to turn to crowdfunding?

censorship is necessary in a free society, ssems like a juztaposition but have you noticed that we censor the voices of people who say sex with children is okay, and we censor the voices of people who say that bombing shit is cool. Censorship of violence is about promoting freedom. Censor this crap, like I would hope you would censor some garbage that denied climate science. For the good and freedom of humanity, to no longer remain enslaved to these prehistoric ideas and ideals about women and men. Time to grow up.

Censorship is good, something something war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.

Also, lots of comments crying "rape! abuse!". As if a documentary can promote that. I doubt a single person who signed this has seen the movie (same goes for the creator of the petition), and most probably know nothing more of it than the misinformation in the petition.

double-happiness · 2016-10-24T12:13:24+00:00

Please stand with the women everywhere

...by refusing to air a film made by a woman!!! Fucking idiots. I suppose they think Cassie Jaye must have Stockholm Syndrome or something.

Edit:

You may complain about this petition trying to censor freedom of speech, but what you don't understand is the different between freedom of speech and freedom of consequence. Freedom of speech allowed this film to be made. Freedom of consequence allows me to sign this petition blocking it.

http://i.imgur.com/EojMT7W.jpg

EricAllonde · 2016-10-24T10:50:18+00:00

Wow, feminists pushing censorship of different opinions! Who could have ever guessed that would happen...? /s

splodgenessabounds · 2016-10-24T09:36:09+00:00

Can you spot the errors?

Space does not permit...

prybarn · 2016-10-24T13:25:14+00:00

For those that don't know, here are the problems with calling Elam pro-rape:

When he says he would vote innocent in a rape trial, it's not because he is pro-rape, it's because he's against subverting the justice system. He believes that all the special exceptions we make when it comes to rape, such as rape shield laws, make it so a fair trial cannot be had, and so he could never vote guilty, as he has to presume innocence.

And when he says that some women go around wearing "rape me" signs, he clarifies that there is a difference between "asking for it" (as the phrase goes) and deserving it. If I go around to all the biggest, meanest, drunks I can find and greet with them with insults to their mother, people will say I was "asking for it" but I didn't technically deserve any physical violence that results.

But, yes, Elam was purposely being controversial, to get attention, and it's still working all these years later.

TamidMT · 2016-10-24T18:29:09+00:00

I was worried this would happen if the film premier was publicised. I can spot the errors in the petition, but there are so many that I'm going to have to do this in dot points for each individual sentence.

Kino Cinema in Melbourne is scheduled to screen misogynistic propaganda film ‘The Red Pill’ in just over two weeks.

From Cassie Jaye herself: “Above all, Red Pill is not about attacking women: it is about supporting men. And that can only be a good thing.”
This isn't and never was a "misogynistic propaganda" — it's the sincere documenting and journaling by someone who dared to have an open mind and was courageous enough to converse with those she were told were her ideological enemies.

Film-maker Cassie Jaye follows members of online hate-group ‘The Red Pill,’ known to most as the sexist cesspit of the internet.

From Cassie again: "[M]y film’s title is not referring to TRP subreddit, it is in reference to its original popular culture usage (which is used my many other groups and conspiracists as well, it is not owned by the subreddit)."
In her next paragraph: "[M]ainstream media constantly conflates all manosphere factions to seem as if they are all one in the same (PUA, MGTOW, MRM, TRP, etc)."
In another interview, she says: "When I started this project, my perception of MRAs was definitely negative. I thought they’d say shocking things and it would be a peek inside this mysterious, misogynistic community. All I knew about them was the cherry-picked, shocking comments used on feminist websites. [...] But the MRAs weren’t loners or misogynists. Most of them are in loving relationships and have children, and that was shocking for me."
I, and many other people on Reddit and elsewhere have exactly the same story as Cassie.

The general plotline goes something like this: ‘feminist’ Jaye decides to investigate rape-culture, opens the first hit on Google (Red Pill) and before she knows it, she has seen the light and converted to ‘meninism.’

It says a lot that you've put 'feminist' in quotation marks.
"Before she knows it"? This documentary was a two-and-a-half-year process, and Cassie repeatedly describes it as a "journey".
Meninism is a spoof of feminism. It isn't real. Cassie began this journey as a feminist, but she hasn't publicly labelled herself anything now. Perhaps she will in the movie. If she does, it won't be 'meninist'.

The documentaries [sic] star, A Voice for Men's Paul Elam, is a pro-rape racist who in 2010 wrote: “Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.”

Paul Elam is not "the star" of this documentary — he is one of many people to have been interviewed.
I've learned not to believe accusations against people at face value, especially when it cuts to the core of human identity (race and sex). I'm going to put a massive [citation needed] on labelling Paul Elam a racist. It has been half an hour, and I haven't found anything damning that implicates him directly.
There is now a lengthy editorial on that article. It is described by the editors as "deliberately inflammatory ... written in order to shake people out of their comfortable sensibilities and confront brutal realities they just did not want to see", and "not typical at all of [A Voice for Men] content". The most popular comments on the article strongly disagree with Elam's reasoning and brash style.
If we were to take the reverse of Elam's hypothetical scenario, do you think anyone on a jury would vote guilty in a rape trial even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges were false? Because they do. Both they and Elam are in the wrong. It's a little frightening to see how juries are capable of twisting criminal cases.

He also claimed online that young women walk through life “with the equivalent of a “I'M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH — PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.”

There is now a lengthy editorial on that article too. It, like the previous article, "was written in the very early days of A Voice for Men to be deliberately provocative, [...and...] it mostly tends to be quoted out of context by dishonest ideologues as “typical” rather than the unusually provocative article that it was."
As atrocious as his delivery was, Elam didn't merely claim without reasoning "that young women walk through life with the equivalent of a “I'M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH — PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads". He's talking about a very specific type of woman. He says earlier on: "What I mean is, do women who act provocatively; who taunt men sexually, toying with their libidos for personal power and gain, etc., have the same type of responsibility for what happens to them as, say, someone who parks their car in a bad neighborhood with the keys in the ignition and leaves it unlocked with the motor running? Obviously, we still blame the car thief for the actual theft, but don’t most of us turn to the person who owned the car and at least want to ask, 'What the fuck were you thinking?'" A callous and "deliberately provocative" remark, yes, but he's not talking about "young women" as a whole or even a majority — "a lot of women", he says, referring to that specific type of woman. He doesn't even say they deserve it: "'Deserved' is a different topic. But perhaps if we start curbing our automatic outrage over what happens to women who are begging for and even insisting on trouble, then maybe a few of them will be more prone to decisions that turn out a little better for them." Crass, again. I would have taken issue with that when I was a feminist, but it was feminist researchers who proved him right. That certainly doesn't excuse Elam's methods.
Paul Elam is by far the most controversial figure in the Men's Rights Movement. A lot of people can no longer defend him or A Voice for Men after those very remarks. Someone called him "the Andrea Dworkin of MRAs", as in "Under patriarchy, every woman’s son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." Dworkin.

In a country where one in three women are victims of gender-based violence, it is repulsive to legitimise and promote this behaviour.

One in three women are victims of physical violence, but not specifically gender-based violence. The other part that you left out is that one in two men will experience violence in his lifetime. But you wouldn't want to dismiss a 1-in-3 figure at the expense of another demographic with a higher proportion, right?
In absolutely no way does this documentary legitimise and promote gender-based violence. Cassie's goal is "to show the honest journey [she] went on (and it was a windy road) in hopes of dispelling the misinformation about men's issues and to encourage dialogue based on facts rather than fear." Just like I was, Cassie was confronted with the realities that MRAs weren't the misogynists they were reputed to be, and that men aren't the privileged caricatures that feminists concoct.

This is the kind of disgusting, violent message that is totally out of line with Australian values and law - earlier this year, Peter Dutton refused a visa to “red-pilled” Daryush "Roosh" Valizadeh, and in 2014 Julien Blanc also had his visa cancelled.

As idiotic as they are, neither Valizadeh or Blanc are MRAs or red pill — they are pick-up artists.
As idiotic as they are, neither Valizadeh or Blanc have ever been charged with a crime anywhere in the world. It is one thing to cancel someone's visa on the grounds of prior criminal convictions. It is another thing entirely to do on the basis of their beliefs or values, and sets a very worrying diplomatic precedent on judging travellers on their subjective thoughts rather than objective actions.

(Edit: formatting)

MisterDamage · 2016-10-24T10:18:13+00:00

How do we tell which inaccuracies are deliberate and which are mistakes?

Imnotmrabut · 2016-10-24T16:30:06+00:00

Use It!

Streisand Effect: the phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.

SacredWeapon · 2016-10-24T12:59:22+00:00

I mean, this is exactly what we told her would happen when she titled her film about the men's movement to be the name of an actual online hate group.

Lethn · 2016-10-24T08:47:08+00:00

Fools, they've made their first mistake.

2016-10-24T13:27:28+00:00

straya at it again

kutuup1989 · 2016-10-24T13:38:13+00:00

Surprised Change.org accepted the petition with that wording.

Aren't petitions supposed to be fact based rather than hysterical opinion?

ThePigmanAgain · 2016-10-24T08:57:26+00:00

LOL! Censorship at its finest. And with a link to Manboobz, too!

iainmf · 2016-10-24T09:25:54+00:00

I'm tempted to sign it myself.

atheist4thecause · 2016-10-24T14:59:44+00:00

Please go to the petition and report it for policy violations. I reported it for the bullying of Paul Elam and MRA's, but feel free to report it for whatever violations you see fit. You have to go to the actual site, not the archived one, in order to report it. People have gone through a lot of trouble to create this film, and now it's up to us to protect the ability for people to see it.

/u/kutuup1989 /u/zangerinus /u/prybarn /u/SacredWeapon /u/Badgerz92 /u/AloyiusC /u/EricAllonde /u/double-happiness /u/liztheheretic /u/Museli_nom /u/Throwa24 /u/MisterDamage /u/splodgenessabounds /u/iainmf /u/Lethn

typhonblue · 2016-10-24T15:27:36+00:00

Save the Red Pill in Melborne! https://www.change.org/p/kino-cinema-stop-susie-smith-from-stopping-palace-cinemas-screening-the-red-pill-film

jacksarmy · 2016-10-24T16:13:26+00:00

No such thing as bad publicity, everyone should start a change.org campaign to have it banned/not shown etc etc in every country to get more free coverage!

2016-10-24T16:46:33+00:00

These people will never understand what these actions accomplish in the end.

The more they scream bloody-murder from their rooftops at a movie, the greater the interest from those on the fence. Any publicity is publicity no matter how you slice it.

rbrockway · 2016-10-25T04:33:04+00:00

The petition was successful. The cinema has cancelled the screening.

Title	Change.org petition against the Australian premiere screening of 'The Red Pill'. Can you spot the errors?
Author	rbrockway
Upvotes	76
Comments	33
Date	October 24, 2016 8:37 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/593hs5/changeorg_petition_against_the_australian/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/changeorg-petition-against-the-australian-premiere.939106 https://theredarchive.com/post/939106

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