Lessons from a woman with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) - Part 2

AloneOnTheStrange · 2016-04-07T00:55:37+00:00

The best thing you can do when you're in a relationship with someone is not ignore the signs! I know it's easier in retrospect, but when you begin the BPD relationship there are little warning signs that you tend to miss or ignore. She gets disproportionately upset about something you wouldn't consider an issue at all, like spending longer at work than you thought you would.

At the time you dismiss these as her having a bad day, and move on because the love bombing is so addictive. But then, as the relationship progresses, these little tantrums become more and more frequent.

When she gets angry it's not like regular anger. She becomes a completely different person. Her face goes blank and her eyes glaze over. Even when she looks you in the eye she seems to be looking past you. She seems to be full of nothing but an endless hatred for you, and everything about you.

A major sign is that she offloads all of her personal problems to you very quickly. Before you know how she likes her eggs cooked, she's told you about abusive boyfriends, suicide attempts, drug addictions, anorexia ect. She'll frame them in such a way to make herself look like the victim, and she needs you to save her from her horrible life. She's recruiting you as a flying monkey, and the only place to go from there is to be devalued and discarded.

When she has you close to her she starts to strip away all the things that made her like you in the first place. You're not allowed to practice your hobbies, see your friends, or work out. She throws a tantrum if you attempt to assert some sense of your own self, but the important thing is she'll never frame it like that. She gets angry because the housework isn't done, not because you went out to see your friends. She's upset because you stink of sweat, not because you went to the gym. By making you unattractive she increases her hold on you, and once she has you trapped the real monster will come out.

BenjiDread · 2016-04-07T02:25:43+00:00

Another sign is a persecution complex. The way she interprets benign texts as slights against her. Constantly complaining about things their friends have done to her or worse, haven't done FOR her.

She'll make you feel like her friends are horrible people. And she'll do the same to you that she claims are being done to her. If you point out the hypocrisy you become the enemy.

Bring up the lack of sex? It turns into everything that's wrong with you. Even disagreeing with her opinion on something is seen as disrespect. It's a no-win situation. You stop trying to make her happy and instead obsess over not pissing her off.

You are judged ONLY on your mistakes, which become her definition of you. The worst part is that you begin to believe that you really are a colossal fuck up.

Says the most hurtful things possible and is surprised when you have an appropriate reaction to said hurt. They'll tell you you're overreacting. You repeat her words back to her and she doesn't remember saying it.

In my case, there was no violence, no self harm, no destruction of property. Just an insidious underlying contempt for you and reality distortion field that will suck you in.

When you seem like you'll give up on her, she turns around and becomes an angel. You'll be served food, offered sex, company while watching your favorite sci-fi show until you're so full of hope that you could be happy with this woman and fall back in love with your memory of her in the beginning of the relationship.

Then she starts avoiding you again. Getting upset about everything you do and don't do and the cycle starts again.

I didn't learn about BPD until I had just moved out. In a subsequent joint therapy session she basically listed the traits of BPD. Fear of abandonment. Unclear identity. Feeling like everyone is against her. Feeling like she doesn't exist. In my exes case, she said she sometimes feels like she wanted to just disappear (Not the same as wanting to commit suicide; just vanish into thin air).

She is surprisingly introspective to be able to identify these traits in herself. She is capable of empathy but only with her conscious mind. Beneath her thinking self there is a feral rage beast that has no feeling for you in the moment of her emotional peaks. And that feral beast has control over her. Only when the beast sleeps does her thinking mind get to emerge.

I don't think my ex is evil. I think deep down she's a good person. But even she knows that her subconscious is toxic. She is powerless to change it. If she could, she'd probably run away from herself.

If these things sound familiar to you, the problem isn't you. It's hard to accept that. It was for me but eventually, I reached the end of my patience. By that time, I was a shell of my former self. The best time to leave is RIGHT NOW. Another day, another hour will only sink you deeper in her emotional quicksand. Trying fix things is, like trying to wriggle out of quicksand. You'll only sink deeper.

It's heartbreaking, but you have to leave for your own survival. If you don't she'll suck you dry and discard your corpse like Hitler's vampire. Just leave. No amount of Alpha frame will save you from the constant, unrelenting cognitive dissonance.

Save yourselves bothers. You'll be broken but thankful that the hammer has stopped pounding your soul.

rfxrailgun · 2016-04-07T03:21:16+00:00

I had an experience not long ago that finally forced me to internalize TRP for my own well being and stop my pattern of attracting this type of woman. She was the worst by far and made realize I had only taken the time release red pill...set me back a bit I'd say. This is from someone who has been reading TRP and adopting elements of it for 5+ years. I've dated many women, and a long time ago I swore off relationships. Once I got into the wider world of dating beyond university I kept finding this certain type of woman, and remembered why I didn't bother with this shit for a while. Funny that you mention a driver's license, because this girl was irresponsibility personified and she just obtained one not long ago after not having an ID for the longest time, and looks as drained and as her soul, like she got it after coming off a bender (and probably did). I know because I saw it laying on the street, lost like most of her other shit when she would drink.

Certain guys like me (single mother with dark triad characteristics), tend to attract this type of woman because of the familiarity of trying hopelessly to please that implacable woman. It is actually terrifying how once you get to know the type, how predictable they all are to a T. They mirror you/seduce you, seeming like that perfect unicorn - intensely loving and passionate, and then something you do (and you will probably not even realize it), triggers their fear of abandonment, and it's game over, once they hook you they become afraid and with this girl, that meant disappearing out of nowhere..or telling me she'd be back in 30 minutes and disappearing for the entire night, and me discovering her coming off of some drug high in the most suspect looking place ever. She turned out to be the worst alcoholic I'd ever seen, but did not present any of these flaws for the first couple of months.

No phone, because that was too much of a responsibility. There were hamstered excuses for why, but she also turned out to be someone who can't hold a job. But after she started disappearing she would call me from random numbers and do this thing where she just waited at the end of the line in silence, or call just to argue and incite drama.

I am pretty sure she was NPD because she had this warped perspective of everyone being jealous of her, and how far 'above' other people she was in many ways, even when she knew and did nothing special. People were allegedly always making fun of her and she could infer this from a glance, or subtext in something they said. She would debate any point just to feel right, even if she was wrong. The friends who wanted me out of there were 'fake' or 'immature' and just 'didn't understand' anything, while hers were real, down to earth, and honest (like her- lol!) etc etc. To paint a picture which I came to see more fully, her mother (an alcoholic) abused her throughout her entire life, would just kick her out of the house out of the blue without warning and also physically assault her, scratching her, punching her in the head or throwing her into walls..from a young age all the way up to present day (she is nearing 30). Despite this inevitable outcome of almost every interaction with her, she kept her belongings at her mother's and would constantly try to patch things up and suddenly be in high spirits if they had the rare life-affirming talk that made her feel good for a while before the next fight. This addiction to drama carried over into basically everything else, always on edge, expecting an argument or a fight from anyone. Her father is essentially a transient and an even bigger alcoholic. She is basically wandering around the same way using people for alcohol or whatever other resources she can gain from them, and she will go as low as prostituting herself to older guys when she gets in one of her manic states from alcohol and lack of sleep (or whatever other drugs she'd do..i'd never find conclusive proof of this but her pupils were always dilated to the max). One night she told me she was going to 'clean' a guy's place. The guy coincidentally happened to be a coke dealer, and just so happened to fuck his cleaners. It was supposed to be for an hour but turned into her disappearing for the day, lol. Of course, she claimed she didn't do any coke, or drink, or sleep with this guy. Even long after we were done the lies will still hold.

Obviously things were warped and I knew that any semblance of a relationship with her was impossible. These types are absolutely warped and sick. I think she was trying blow my mind with just how low she could go. If you care about one of these individuals and get sucked into trying to 'fix' them, they will make you sick, no doubt. They can do things like this with a smile on their face while telling you they love you, and the stories they put together to explain disappearances are a whole lot of fun. Expect a lot of "You wouldn't believe what happened!". It's crucially important that they sell you on these. They will make big plans and break them, disappearing for a full week, and then come back as if nothing happened and expecting the world still. They will tell you to meet them somewhere in 20 minutes and intentionally drag out time and be late as some fucked up form of control in their world. Never underestimate how much time they will waste (to an a well-adjusted person at least) just to confound you.

But don't call them out on any of their lies..or they will experience a visceral allergic response. The stories and lies they weave will make your head spin..And they are really good at it, because it is part of how they survive. They will lie about the most insignificant detail to the most blatantly obvious shit they do, and they will make YOU feel crazy for suggesting they are with every defense mechanism in the book - projection ("what made YOU this way? You're crazy! I need to get away from this. I'm a good person and I need to be selfish right now and take initiative and do something for MYSELF for once" (an actual line), deflection, gaslighting, crazy making routines and baiting you into no-win arguments where you explode, so their broken hamster can justify storming out the door and escaping you because 'you're abusive', and they're likely to go and fuck a random each time. Their broken catch-22 logic for shit they do will never fail to astound you. Sometimes I would laugh because I thought I was in some episode of the twilight zone. Your anger for any of their actions (AFTER they have done it) is retroactive justification..All of their life choices, even ones made before they met you, can somehow be attributed to you in their mind. Their self-denial reaches epic proportions, and they will use anything no matter how crazy or illogical to perpetuate their victimhood. Sure, having no accountability is an AWALT thing, but these women are like AWALT on steroids.

Once they get that crazy vacant look to their eyes, you run and hide. They are going to tear into you and rip you apart, even as they make themselves at home in your place, eating all your food, leaving messes, breaking shit and pretty much running the place..they will berate you and pick apart every little thing. Sudden bouts of extreme depression, anxiety, false illnesses, or just getting into a completely illogical argument about anything were just some of the things she'd do, mostly just to keep me in a confused state and draw attention to herself at any cost.

After it all, I actually kind of feel sorry for her. I see her as this perpetually scared broken child, always ready to up and run with a hobo bag full of her belongings from 'friend' to 'friend'. Even if the fear and anxiety makes no sense, it probably feels quite real to her. I read up on BPD and NPD a lot, because I needed to understand, and that was what kept me there for a bit..a project to distract me that can never be fixed or fully understood. Other women came along, and I knew they always would, but for a guy who doesn't and invests in fixing one of these types - I can see why many have killed themselves after entering relationships with these types. Thankfully I was able to pull myself out when things got insane. At this point I've seen at least 3 women who have shown similar behaviors and have been either BPD or NPD, and I've read enough to see a lot of red flags and 'tells' when they start doing shady shit. If I wanted to, I could use this and manipulate them to my advantage, but it's probably never worth sticking your dick in crazy. A positive from this experience, though, is that I am pretty sure I can handle anything after her, as they make other women seem like RP on easy mode.

TLDR - "Don't stick your dick in crazy"

Docbear64 · 2016-04-07T00:09:48+00:00

One of my former very brief plates absolutely had BPD according to your descriptions and it's so ominous to think about . I felt the entire time that something was off , for some reason with this chick i felt like i was the worst person ever , somehow my hard no's shifted to maybes, and rolled over to begrudging yes's and i rationalized that something was wrong with my initial perspective and she helped me see the light .

If i wasn't so short of patience when it came to her aggressive lashing out and the flood of her thoughts through text i don't doubt i would be in a relationship with her and quite unhappy .

What scares me more than anything is the mirroring , i can remember so many conversations where she distinctly was asking what i needed her to be at the time i didn't see it... I thought it was just me sharing my perspective on what I was looking for but sure enough she'd agree , support the idea of one thing and within seconds our conversation would go right back to where it started " can we start dating now?" ....... " Errr no that's why i spent the last 15 minutes telling you that we should probably just be friends" .

It's unfortunate too because i think there's a good person in there? Honestly after reading your posts i feel like i danced with the devil unknowingly and was fortunate enough to come out unscathed.

Thank you so much i didn't see the possibility of getting back in a relationship with her but i remember having mentioned her to family and they convinced me that maybe I was just an asshole breaking the heart of some poor sweet creature who just wanted my time. Now i know to steer clear.

SubbaHubba · 2016-04-07T06:32:38+00:00

Just run. There's nothing to dissect, nothing to debate. Run, run far away. They're like the zombies whose faces haven't yet rotted off. It's not who you think it is, run for your life motherfucker.

user_none · 2016-04-06T23:17:20+00:00

Thanks for this man, I posted yesterday that I'm going through the same thing, just separated a month now, but we have a 17MO daughter. So she's completely bat shit BPD crazy as fuck, the worst part I think (apart from the physical outlashes) is the re-writing of history and saying shit that just isn't true, saying I said and did shit that I did not, and just basically making ME think I'M crazy. I am a very intelligent man and its been a 7 or eight year relationship, but damn over time you start to second guess yourself like"did I say that?!" NO!!! She's just re-writing history and being a crazy cunt! Get the fuck away from these types - oh and the other day she said " like that time you raped me" in a text and I'm like "that's news to me" and brushed it off cuz I'm used to that bullshit by now but these types can ruin lives so watch the fuck out. This can not be reiterated enough. I'm only 33 but have a long road ahead through the divorce.

MentORPHEUS · 2016-04-07T00:32:57+00:00

It amazed me how my BPD GF could switch emotions. She'd become an insufferable bitch, till I'd get fed up and demand she leave. Then she'd switch to tears and contrition, then be nice for a short while, then the cycle would begin again.

One warning sign that I ignored at the time: we were driving somewhere, and she changed the A/C controls of my car. I changed them back. She changed them again. I pulled over and made it clear she'd walk if it happened again. It stopped it for the moment. However, if you discover this level of disrespect in a woman, the proper move is to turn the car around and drop her back off from whence you picked her up, and cut all contact. It will NOT get better.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking you can fix things, or can turn them around, or you want to at least end things on a good note. YOU CAN'T! A BPD person will shape-shift and change every time you get near an important leverage point.

It became clear that she'd only leave in handcuffs or a body bag. Things were so crazy that I actually contemplated murder as a solution, though even my sleep-deprived, gaslighted brain knew better than to go that route.

Dealing with the police was... interesting. They were incredulous about my story, and thought she and I were BOTH tweekers. The final two months were Kafkaesque, with police digging through my trash at night and watching me at my business, attempting to raid my house helicopter and all, when I happened to be on the next block disabling her car where she parked it, neighbors made suspicious of me and one naive religious family taking her in and believing her claims that SHE was the one being abused, and culminating in me locking my windows and nailing the doors shut from the inside, only to wake up to her inside my house again!

As the old Genesis song said, "This heart was broken long before it ever came to you." You can't fix crazy, guys! Forget your pride and RUN from a crazy woman.

Keep up the good writing, OP!

Dagon1213 · 2016-04-07T08:57:05+00:00

I wasted 4 years on a BPD psycho. I could write a 50 page essay on that experience. Never again

sqerl · 2016-04-07T14:24:57+00:00

Few posts strike a chord like BPD. Read thru the responses and it's obvious how many men found themselves in the painful situation of a BPD relationship. The nightmare of cognitive dissonance is painful, confusing, and soul eating. Thankfully, sharing these stories helps realize we are not alone and find better ways to handle ourselves and relationships.

This is why TRP is so valuable for men that come here confused, lost, and broken. Asserting yourself, holding frame, and strengthening yourself from a male-centric POV is a first line defence against manipulation, mental illness, and your own hamster. That being said, take care of yourself. Random advice on the internet is no substitute for a qualified professional...

Bpgiissues · 2016-04-06T21:59:00+00:00

Long time lurker here and at the Rational Male. Thanks TRP and Rollo helped me sort more shit out and I still have a long way to go. Short background, I was with now ex 15 years and discovered an understanding of my BP behavior and BPD continuum as she tried to branch swing and I caught her undeniably with another man.

I learned that BPD individuals truly don't listen to what you are saying at all in many cases and truly believe the "facts" in their head as a narrative. I had always rationalized that I was obviously just not reaching her right in communication style or whatever for her constant responses that blatantly misinterpreted what I said or did.

Light bulb moment came in a counselling session for handling kids during separation. Counsellor decided we needed to work on our communication. Plans an exercise on active listening. Short summary, one person is designated speaker. Other person waits until designated speaker indicates they are done. Other person then paraphrases what they heard back. At this point they speak their side. Ground rule: no interruptions. She makes her point. I paraphrase. Therapist says ok, BPGiIssues, your turn. I get about four words in she cuts me off. Therapist repeats all the exercise instructions. I start again. Complete my point. She starts her rebuttal. Asked again to paraphrase my point. Stammers repeatedly. Then spits out, "I, uh, I don't remember" Hit me like a ton of bricks, all those times weren't communication problems, she just wasn't listening.

Another BPD tell, she walked out of our only attempt at a counselling session about 6 years previous. Her statement at the time, "The therapist is always taking your side and you are ganging up on me."

Of course, I immediately went to an ex-fling that had been the best sex I had had a while back, and got myself into another relationship with someone well along the BPD / Narcissism spectrum. Right after seperation.

Between the two of those, a lot of reading, and looking at a bunch of TRP stuff, after 4 years, I now have a completely different view on Women, relationships, and general views on manipulation and Nice Guy Syndrome. I see the same traits in my brother and my father as I, and see many of the BPD / Narcisstic spectrum traits in my mother. Amazing how a change in perspective can open your eyes. Unfortunately, I still can't get my brother to see it and stand up to his wife.

Best lessons learned, BPD only respect strength. When you fall to their shit they turn the screws on you harder. I got lucky on my way out. Learned how to not take the bait, force the conversation to relevant issues and facts only, and learned to see projection gas-lighting and blame shift for what it is. Best part is I have young daughters and between that and the two relationships I've learned that BPD is AWALT on hard mode. Can totally see my little girls working on picking up some of the same skills except they haven't the same kind of perfection yet. As per other posters, cut your losses with a BPD. I got lucky so far in that she hasn't sought to destroy me and we actually have a farily functional co parenting / divorce relationship.

MattyAnon · 2016-04-07T01:02:51+00:00

What makes these women damaged, is that they don't love in a traditional sense.

No women love in the traditional sense. BPD tends to be selfish and mental and all the rest of it... but it's not like the rest of the women out there are selfless unicorns. They're just less likely to boil your bunny(nsfw).

She has BPD, now what? Two paths my friend.

Only one path... get the fuck out of dodge.

Deckard256 · 2016-04-07T06:26:15+00:00

It's crazy to read all of these experiences, my previous girlfriend of two years pulled me through the ringer that is borderline personality, and didn't finally end until she got drunk one night, caused a massive verbal fight for three hours with me outside the restaurant we were at, and ended with her physically assulting me. She had pulled crazy on me before but never to that level. I didn't understand her until I started reading up on her behaviors, and she fit the symptoms of borderline almost perfectly. I don't feel angry at her so much as I feel bad for her. She's broken and likely won't ever get fixed. I tried being friendly with her afterwards because she had been threatening suicide to her friends, but there was a point one morning when I realized she's never gonna change, so I blocked her from my life, and I'm really happy that I did. From what I've learned since then, that's all you really can do with many people with this disorder. All I can say is that if your girl keeps flipping between awesome, unbearably sad, and god awful, read on the subject and really consider cutting your ties with her, there really isn't any fix.

max_peenor · 2016-04-06T22:25:33+00:00

The most infuriating thing about dealing with a woman BPD is that it can be successfully treated, but the disorder itself can make it almost impossible for the woman to see that and do something about it. In a way, you are absolutely right. You have to be absolutely ruthless to get them on the way to help. That is if you care enough.

BuddhaFett · 2016-04-07T13:47:07+00:00

I was married to a BPD for 20 years before I finally had enough and divorced her. Raised 5 kids and the amount of time I have to spend helping them adjust to life is amazing.

I lived through the seduction, the mirroring, the splitting...all of it, and 3 years later I'm still trying to get my head straight. The way I approach dating, see relationships, all of it requires constant attention and management or I find myself with the wrong kind of woman.

Hard next on any of the signs of PD and be careful out there, gentlemen.

niczar · 2016-04-07T14:53:16+00:00

Is bpd and aspd (psychopathy, sociopathy, narcissism) basically the same? The experiences you're describing fit someone with aspd perfectly. Pathological lying, personality being a mask etc. etc.

zezozio · 2016-04-07T18:42:17+00:00

a woman who loves being happy. She isn't looking for someone to make her happy, she's already happy.

There's a strong chance that person is giving, because they have what they need, happiness.

Truth! Over the past 10 years, that was the error I made again and again and again and again (and again). Find happy. Never stick dick in crazy (but to my defence, they have pretty ways to hide themselves).

I couldn't be the guy strangling a woman in a bathroom because I couldn't see the bigger picture of getting sucked into someone else's mind.

Enlightening! My ex probably has "light" BPD. 6 weeks after her breaking up, she got out and found another guy who was high on testosterone. Forward 4 months, he beat her close to death (over a picture of me left in her phone). This is probably what happened to him. She just messed to much with his head. She tried to fuck my head for a while but I'm kind of resilient, when she tried to do the same to him, it backfired.

YouDislikeMyOpinion · 2016-04-07T05:28:37+00:00

EDIT: I love it when people downvote me. If you downvote, be a man and post a reply.

If you have a good frame and system of dealing with issues as they arise, you will rarely find yourself on the wrong side of a situation. Any bad situation you find yourself in, you can get out of it with some effort.

Who cares if she's BPD, if you have your own frame and it is solid, her bullshit will not penetrate it. Some of the responses I'm reading in this thread indicate that the man made a mistake and allowed some type of behavior. If she's acting in a type of way, you have the option to drop her.

I think that something all men should strive to experience is a very good plate. Once a man has had even one plate who gets a long great with him, fucks him well, and etc, now he knows it's possible. I don't see why a man who has experienced that would put up with a lot of the bullshit that girls create.

It's reminds me of girls and periods. Some girls change for the worst during their period. But if you have had an experience or multiple experiences with girls who are perfectly normal on their period, you can now simply choose to tell those girls with bullshit to fuck off. You know that there are girls who are fine on their period, you know that you can get them, so why the fuck would you put up with something worse than you can achieve. If you're at a burger joint, do you want a patty fresh from the grill or one that was fresh from the floor, both have the same price, why would you use the same money for a shittier product?

When the line is drawn, it's not a problem to take action once it's crossed. You are taking action for your own benefit. Here are a few excerpts from a post in this thread:

Another sign is a persecution complex. The way she interprets benign texts as slights against her. Constantly complaining about things their friends have done to her or worse, haven't done FOR her.

She has a problem with your texts? Find out why. Is it because she is crazy? If not, one of the easiest things to do is to stop texting. You could call instead. She's talking about shit you're not interested in? "I'm not interested in talking about this and that, let's do this instead"

She'll make you feel like her friends are horrible people. And she'll do the same to you that she claims are being done to her. If you point out the hypocrisy you become the enemy.

"I'm really not interested in being around someone who does this and this". Why do you need to point anything out, you don't even need to give a reason, just a simple statement.

Bring up the lack of sex? It turns into everything that's wrong with you. Even disagreeing with her opinion on something is seen as disrespect. It's a no-win situation. You stop trying to make her happy and instead obsess over not pissing her off.

Lack of sex? Solution is to find another provider. Something is wrong with you? You can find someone who finds things right with you. Disagree with her opinion? That's called having your own thoughts. She thinks its disrespect? Get it across that you have your opinion and if she doesn't like that, or has some problem with it, you can find someone normal who has no problem with it.

The problem is that guys throw themselves down this spiral of shit, and then have to dig their way out. Don't throw yourself in and you won't have to dig your way out.

Title	Lessons from a woman with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) - Part 2
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	53
Comments	97
Date	April 6, 2016 8:39 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4dnogw/lessons_from_a_woman_with_borderline_personality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/lessons-from-a-woman-with-borderline-personality.57558 https://theredarchive.com/post/57558

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