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Why Feminists Cannot Be Trusted To Discuss Rape of Men–At All

blueoak9

April 24, 2014

41 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/why-feminists-cannot-be-trusted-to-discuss-rape-of-men-at-all/

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Post Information

Title	Why Feminists Cannot Be Trusted To Discuss Rape of Men–At All
Author	blueoak9
Upvotes	41
Comments	70
Date	April 24, 2014 6:23 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/23vphu/why_feminists_cannot_be_trusted_to_discuss_rape/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-feminists-cannot-be-trusted-to-discuss-rape-of.1001340 https://theredarchive.com/post/1001340

Comments

[–]chocoboat 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueoak9[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

""whatever, historically men have done all this other crap and raped so many women, so I don't really care if some men get raped today".

The white women making this argument are stunningly blind to the irony of that. "Hey Mayella honey, tell us again, and again and again, how you was raped."

That's one form of dismissal. Another is that most men are rapaed by other men (supposeldy - they never offer any kind of concrete evidence, because hey, believers should not need proof, right?) so these rapes don't matter. this one is especially dehumanizing and it is explicitly objectifying - it is a claim of fungibility, since it involves lumping all men into a Borg doing all this rape to itself.

Then there is the old "Well, rape is worse for women than for men" ploy, that has never once that I have seen avoided rape apology, because discounting the harm of rape is one form of rape apology.

Then there is the irrevovcable consent dodge - "Well, he's a guy, so he must have wanted it" usually backed up by an acusation of misogyny because a man can only refuse the feminine awesomeness of sex any time any place anyone if he hates all women, amirite? Oh, and "I bet no one ever asks a man what he was wearing when he was raped!" (Gotcha there motherfucker - Actually not quite; they never ask because it never matters - a man is presumed to always want sex whatever. At least there is the presumption of the possibility that a woman might not want sex in that question.)

One way you see this is in hyperagentic weasel-wording, in which male victims, say boys, are not said to be "raped" but rather are said to have "engaged in sex". The presumption of agency and therefore of consent is just too hard for these rape apologist bigots to shake.

[–]chocoboat 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Then there is the old "Well, rape is worse for women than for men" ploy, that has never once that I have seen avoided rape apology, because discounting the harm of rape is one form of rape apology.

You know what though? I do agree with that. Rape is worse for women, being physically penetrated is a more invasive thing, and the chance for pregnancy and increased chance (compared to men) to acquire an STD.

But the thing is... why does it fucking matter which is worse? If you tell someone "I was stabbed 3 times and had to spend a week in the hospital", do they respond with "who gives a shit, I heard of some other person who was stabbed 5 times and had to spend two weeks, so your problem doesn't matter"? Of course not, and you'd have to be retarded to think that way.

But when it comes to gender issues... suddenly it's ok to ignore crimes just because worse crimes exist, and suddenly it's impossible to say that both crimes are pretty fucked up.

Gotcha there motherfucker - Actually not quite; they never ask because it never matters - a man is presumed to always want sex

Great point, I never thought about that.

boys, are not said to be "raped" but rather are said to have "engaged in sex"

Gotta love that shit. And the teachers raping their students are said to have had "affairs" or "trysts" or "inappropriate relationships". But if a guy and girl have dinner together, have a couple of drinks, and choose to have sex with each other... THAT suddenly qualifies for the word rape to be used. Only for the guy, of course.

[–]blueoak9[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Coagulate -32 points-31 points-30 points 12 years ago (63 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueoak9[S] 29 points30 points31 points 12 years ago* (54 children) | Copy Link

First off, feminist =/= woman, so you have failed to show what sexism there is in this.

Second, if women fail to discuss rape of men adequately or in a way that is respectful of male rape victims, it's hardly sexist to point that out. In fact it is sexist to suppress discussion on that point. It's called benevolent sexism.

Third, feminists have made it abundantly clear that they cannot be trusted in this area - they may occasionally make some of the right noises, but they can't be relied on to do that, snce they also equally or more often say grossly rape apologist things. They can't be trusted, in other words.

If feminists want to be trusted on this, they have a huge load of work to do, or rather, to undo. They have a record, you see. They have a record of making rape and worse yet, child rape apologist statements. Either they erase male victims or they try to erase female perpetrators - it all comes down to rape apology.

And their silence on that point, their refusal to denounce other feminsts who make these rape apologist statements, pretty clearly suggests they don't really care about being taken seriously. In fact it suggests that they take all that for granted.

The question is why. And the answer is not the feminists, because on their own they are powerless. They only operate through institutions others control.

[–]SocratesLives 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]blueoak9[S] 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]trudatness2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KRosen3330 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trudatness2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KRosen3331 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trudatness1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I've waded into SRS zones trying to communicate the real difficulties that exist out there. I had the absolute best of intentions to have most honest discussion possible and what I got was insulted taunted and banned.

I got the Patriarchy line - as if its all a patriarchal conspiracy that led to the difficulty I faced (and continue to face) and no feminist had anything to do with the laws being shaped as they are.

It's a complete and total lie. Debating with people who believe in this sort of crap is like trying to stop the tide by shoveling sand. It's a waste of time.

I saw the AVFM post with the the description of the feminist rally. All they do is incite fear and anger by drawing boogeymen. Debating people who have a full buy-in on this rape culture/women victim of society hysteria is a waste of time. They are flat out unable to comprehend how life is for a divorced father - how morally bankrupt the system is. These feminists are flat out delusional.

[–]KRosen3331 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trudatness1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KRosen3331 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trudatness1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, but you're a paranoid loony, maybe it's best that you don't wander off too far.

So what are you saying, MRAs don't get trolled and banned in subs run by SRS?

A brief look at /r/FeMRADebates reveals that it was created and is run by people (well some of them anyway) who identify as "Feminist MRAs" or whatever that is.

I don't see how one can be both for and against rescinding male rights, but hey it's the Internet, people can define themselves however they want.

I do find it ironic that you're pimping a sub that supposedly is anti-troll and purely about rational discussion, but are trolling me at the same time with personal attacks. You're acting as if you are some sort of Internet Carl Jung and have alread diagnosed me with a paranoid pathology.

Thanks Dr KRosen333, are we going to discuss my childhood next? Where are the rorschach tests?

If you are implying that the sub is not run by SRS lackeys, then stop being a dick and say "No man, the place is cool. Not at all run by SRS types."

Obviously, I've never posted there and I don't know the board culture that exists there. Maybe you can cut a noob like me some slack and just break it down in plain language? You know, like an unpretentious regular person?

Why oh why does the Internet have to be full of people who think they are slicker and more enlightened than everyone else? smh

Usually the SJW spaces are ruled by SJWs who believe in things like Patriarchy theory and Rape Culture, two ideologies I believe to be false, if not openly destructive to society. People who believe in that shit are hopeless and beyond reach. If they're male... Well then, they find out eventually what life is like all on their own - the hard way - they don't want or need what I have to tell them. I really don't want to waste my breath (or keystrokes) on people who don't believe my experience is authentic.

I have better shit to do, better spaces to check out and contribute to.

[–]KRosen3331 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]trudatness1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KRosen3331 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]iongantas 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]iongantas 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]iongantas 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]iongantas 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen3330 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]iongantas0 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]Coagulate -26 points-25 points-24 points 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlindPelican 20 points21 points22 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And stop grouping all females together, that IS sexist.

The irony of this, compared to your posting history, is truly a laughable combination. I wonder if you have the maturity to recognize how blatantly bigoted you are.

I mean, these are gems:

A male. Boy did I learn how not worth it they are, haha!

Males throwing temper tantrums, what else is new?

Oh, here we go. Men lying, again. Can't just admit he bought the sweater, no, he has to lie to "save face". You know who else men do that for? When they have gf's or wives. They have to lie and blame them, saying they bought it so they can save face. Nice, you liars. That's just sad. This show is sexist.

You go, girl! Now you know he is a massive porn addict (which is disgusting anyways, I don't understand why men are so addicted to watching fake girls being railed) and also that he plans to ask you to marry him! This is why I am pro "snooping" (that word sounds bad, but looking through a guys phone or browsing history is perfectly fine).

Yeah, that's great. Another reason for men to think more about sex. Great. They don't think about it enough already. So that's great.

This! Men think they can get away with violence against women, and not be punished? It's like they are genetically animals. The ones who act like this, need to... Learn a lesson. That is all I'll say.

I suppose we will start policing our movement when you start policing yourself. If you truly wish to stop generalizations and effect some change, be the change you want to see.

All you appear to be is just another part of the overall problem.

[–]trudatness 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlindPelican 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]iongantas 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]unbannable9412 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]Coagulate -11 points-10 points-9 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]-Sythen- 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]BlindPelican 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]iongantas 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]AtomicBLB 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They are completely able to but seldom do. Then they don't allow the men to tell their experiences and then don't take him serious if he is able to get it voiced. When you are violated you go through the same emotions and feelings. Helplessness, blaming yourself, feeling like you aren't a person anymore. Stress triggering additional episodes later after it's happened. There are two sides to every story and you can't find a solution when you only talk about one side. Not allowing men to define their own version of assault is an example of sexism and is oppressive behavior in general no matter who is expressing themselves over any topic.

Men are shamed just like women are when it comes to sexual assault and men are not supportive of each other if they have never experienced that horror. I can't talk to my male friends about it because they don't know that feeling, they can't empathize and haven't when I've gone on that thin ice in the past. I also have a hard time in general because "I want sex 24/7 and therefore couldn't be a victim" because I am male and nothing else. Which is sexist again, I am a human being, not just a sex crazed man who can't think of anything else.

I had a female friend that said to me recently and I'm taking spelling errors and punctuation and all so this is literal quoting here. I said "Men can be sexually assaulted as well" and she replied "As a child or young adult. Yes. As and adult I don't really believe that. Not to deny or beliddle you or your claims" and unless you have had it happen, you cannot possibly understand how deeply saddened and hurt I was by that statement. You just told me my experiences were not valid which further makes me feel like less of a person.

[–]hrda 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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