What some think of the 80% male suicide

AloysiusC · 2012-11-05T07:13:54+00:00

You're right. Suicide is not necessarily a consequence of mental illness. More than anything else, suicide reveals a total loss of hope and complete powerlessness.

Pain and suffering aren't are also not as significant as is often thought. It's more about the prospects of ending the pain than about the pain itself.

NeuroticIntrovert · 2012-11-05T12:19:43+00:00

One of the hypotheses in the psychological literature is that men are more likely to choose methods that are likely to kill them, and unlikely to be misconstrued as an accident. For example, firearms, or jumping off of buildings/in front of trains.

Personally, as a man who's been through two bouts of major depression, and come close to attempting suicide 3 times, I'm more afraid of trying to kill myself and failing than I am of death. Then I'm weak, shamed, useless, and incompetent.

This comes from a society, and a feminism, that both tell men their problems don't matter, they should suck it up, man up, because plenty of people have it worse; you aren't allowed to have feelings, but if you must have feelings, don't talk about them. Oh, and never cry.

PunchingBob · 2012-11-05T15:20:12+00:00

I am going to go with something as simple as "men aren't allowed to cry."

CORNDOGCOMMANDO · 2012-11-05T19:37:17+00:00

One thing I'm becoming aware of is male health is not a priority with doctors, my doctor is fine when it comes to general health and woman's health but talk about men's health and you might as well talk to a wall.

With all the crap plastered to the walls about woman's health the focus is clear, I had to argue with my doctor just to get my testosterone checked and even then he still doesn't want to give me a proscription for testosterone therapy. I wonder with so much estrogen in our water how many men have low testosterone levels and how much does that play in to depression.

borderlinebadger · 2012-11-05T05:45:54+00:00

Women are more likely to have a mental disorder than men. Just saying, as a psych major.

Nepene · 2012-11-05T16:13:08+00:00

Divorce doubles your risk of suicide if you're male (no effect if female) and the way divorce exists is very obviously discriminatory. It sucks to lose your money, kids, and be forced to slave forever for her.

Jimm607 · 2012-11-05T15:51:36+00:00

Firstly, you overreacted. A lot.. You're family member was given the information, and without any other source of information speculated based on personal experience. they didn't accuse all suicidal men of being mentally ill and especially not out of some sort of bias; she merely stated that the only occurance she could recall was of a suicide out of mental illness and expanded on it; you're question forced them into a conversation they clearly weren't familiar with and they did their best.

Secondly; the statistics here are a bit outdated;

2009; Suicide rate per(100,000) Total: 12.0 Male: 19.2 Female: 5.0

And to bridge the gap a little: Canada(2004): Total: 11.3, Men: 17.3, Women: 5.4 UK(2009): Total: 6.9, Men: 10.9, Women: 3.0 Australia(2009): Total: 9.7, Men: 14.9, Women: 4.5

As for the subject at hand. I personally think there a number of things that lead to this, but the main thing i would guess at is the general cultural bias against men asking for help; not in the people giving the help AS much (although the existence of a lot more female-only help groups is a problem) but moreso in the cultural pressure for a man to not NEED help; when a woman asks for help battling depression or hard times she is seen only as a person in need, when a guy does it is often easy for him to believe that he is seen as weak. Especially in a number of areas, such as trouble at home, domestic violence in particular. 'Domestic Violence' as mentioned a lot on here is seen also entirely as a man-beats-woman scenario with almost no help or even recognition of what it can do to a man, let alone the mental barrier a man has to go through to even confront it himself. And then comes the bias in dealing with it.

But of course, you're missing the fairly obvious, men in general live quite different lives to women, it's not particularly misandry that leads to these rates, more the nature of how males live their lives in general.

Men more often see themselves as the workforce, that they are there to provide for their families, this leads a lot of self imposed pressure (im aware it's not entirely self imposed) on top of this it leads to a whole bunch of different forms of pressure or depressions, missing large parts of you're childrens lives for one; the pressures of losing your job or failing to keep up or prospect.

Now personally, I'm only in uni, and while i have been through a bit of depression here and there it's nothing i wouldn't say that is specific to my gender. So i'm no expert, and you've provided me no information you ARE.

The infographic you've shown me, on reading only shows me that men are significantly more successful at commiting suicide that women; since one piece of information cited in it was that women attempt suicide two to three times as often as men. But since I am not going to bother looking at the report cited, I'm not going to know.

My opinion; first, don't back people into corners with questions theyre unfamiliar with, and then don't attack them for attempting to give you the only information they have. We don't want that sort of aggressive lecturing here.

Secondly; maybe dig a bit deeper into the reports referenced if you want to actually know something about the information, these data sheets aren't written by people who did the research, and usually don't care much for any context they're in; id have a peek around the reports themselves. Again, i don't know i don't really have the effort to look through them or a reply.

Thirdly; don't ever ever ever assume that something is different because there is a bias on one side. Just because something is worse for men doesn't mean its because men are given prejudice in that area. While it's true that some may stem from it, assuming only one reason for anything is stupid. Don't just jump on the 'is all misandry' train whenever something comes up, thats the sort of reasoning we see in hyper-aggressive feminists, and the type of reasoning we try to keep away from.

pacman7331 · 2012-11-05T04:58:22+00:00

Whoa, slow up there tiger!

Your family member is seeking more information, whether or not there are stats on male depression rates, as the suicide rate could indicate that men are suffering depression at rates that aren't being captured.

You also have a point - it won't all be depression. But it can't hurt to call awareness to it (Movember, anyone? the Black Dog Ride?), and it might just reduce the suicide rate.

2012-11-05T11:36:18+00:00

I've read this before....

borderlinebadger · 2012-11-05T15:36:39+00:00

I would have thought that this number could at least be influenced by the very high % of scizophrenics who commit suicide (tyypically much earlier onset in males)

Also there do seem to be alot of almost "pride suicides" each year (especially during the financial crisis) where the man (generally the father) kills himself + family after losing job etc.

it really is very sad, and I think alot of it is because men are ignored when it comes to mental health issues or simply imprisoned when a break occurs

actanonverba8 · 2012-11-06T05:38:16+00:00

Am I right?

"If that is the common attitude towards men: 1) That their suffering is meaningless they're just sick men 2) If they suffer it's because they are simply more flawed as they are male. Not that: Society subjugates and oppresses men to the point of suicide."

I think you're right. It could be argued (and I'm still agreeing with you here) that men suffer depression wayyyyyy more than what the "official" numbers indicate. It makes sense. Little boys are raised to focus on women and their praise (read the book "The Manipulated Man" as well as other sources) and our culture generally cares and focuses much more on women than men. So, the ideas that men aren't focused on taking care of themselves or they feel no point in asking for help because they get the feeling society does not care about them are not unreasonable ideas at all.

rightsbot · 2012-11-05T04:50:19+00:00

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threemorereasons · 2012-11-05T14:23:07+00:00

It seems you are suggesting that you are suggesting that social factors, particularly misandry, play a role in the higher suicide rates for men, whereas your family member's response it that it is purely an individual thing.

It is incorrect to say that it depends on politics or who the president is- this is mixing up the social state/zeitgeist of the country with the political state of the country. Individual factors play their part, but they do not explain the huge discrepancy between male and female suicide rates on a larger scale. That definitely is a social issue.

I don't think men are going to make a direct connection of "society is sexist, therefore I will kill myself", but there are a host of factors that stem from misandric society that ultimately can lead to suicide. The lack of mental health support for males will contribute to higher suicide rates. The idea that men have to be tough, can't cry, and shouldn't ask for help contributes. The lack of support for (predominantly male) veterans contributes. The far greater rates of homelessness among males contributes.

DavidByron · 2012-11-05T15:32:37+00:00

I wonder if you know of any statistics that state more men suffer from mental illness?

I was under the impression that was true, for all sorts of mental illnesses.

borderlinebadger · 2012-11-05T23:52:10+00:00

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/Suicides_by_race_hispanic_gender_and_age_1999-2005.png

Puts an interesting spin on the typical "power" dynamics.

pacman7331 · 2012-11-06T23:54:29+00:00

Also if your male and you say that you are going to kill yourself, the police will pull a gun on you and arrest you.

Or sometimes they will just shoot you and get it over with:

http://rt.com/usa/news/police-sniper-suicidal-boy-870/

Guess if you really wana die just say you are going to kill yourself and the police will kill you, so you don't have to fear divine punishment. Lol

Anyone wana bet how much less this happens to suicidal females?

I'll bet never.

Grapeban · 2012-11-05T18:07:12+00:00

Whenever this statistic is brought up I think it should be noted that women are more likely to attempt suicide, men are just more likely to succeed.

I don't bring this up in order to go "Women have issues too!" but rather so we fully understand the situation at play here.

ghebert001 · 2012-11-05T14:27:23+00:00

As quick as they are to link a man's depression and wanting to kill himself to pure mental illness instead of being driven to it they'll be just as quick to say that women who kill their husbands are driven to it by years of abuse and had no other choice.

Men kill themselves to escape abuse...women kill their abusers. The monsters are cheered on while the real victims are ignored and often told they are too privileged to even be a victim.

Title	What some think of the 80% male suicide
Author	pacman7331
Upvotes	21
Comments	50
Date	November 5, 2012 4:50 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/12nhsr/what_some_think_of_the_80_male_suicide/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-some-think-of-the-80-male-suicide.1009889 https://theredarchive.com/post/1009889

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