Scary Realization.

2012-03-12T21:13:05+00:00

Andrea Dworkin and Cathering McKinnon worked out this idea in detail a long time ago. Go google them to find out more.

The argument fails in several ways:

It is debatable whether the U.S. society is male dominated.
If U.S. society is male dominated, it does not follow that all individual hetero relationship are male dominated.
If an individual hetero relationship is male dominated, it does not follow that the female does not give consent - e.g. submission and consent are not mutually exclusive

The major shortcoming of the Dworkin/McKinnon formulation of "all hetero sex is rape" is that they have a very simple minded understanding of dominance / submission power dynamics within a romantic and sexual relationships. The only type of power these feminists understand or acknowledge is the power of coercion. If that is the only power, then it follows that all submission is non-consensual. But there are many other forms of power - those of leadership, inspiration, or seduction, for example. These types of power offer benefits to those who accept them, and so submission can be entered consensually and with benefit to the consentor. This is the type of power involved in most sex (hetero or otherwise), not the power of coercion.

The fact is that most sex involves elements of dominance and submission. Although male dominant / female submissive is the conventional paradigm, both roles may be occupied by either male or female, and can be exchanged.

Some modern feminists are breaking out of the sex negativity of these old-school feminists. I just read a book by Clarisse Thorn, a feminist writer who's into S&M as both a submissive and dominant. She has an excellent understanding of the erotic nature of power differentials in sex.

And finally - chicks dig sex too.

memymineown · 2012-03-12T21:04:52+00:00

When I clicked on this I was expecting something like "women's lives are worth much, much more than Men's" or something relating to Men's place in society and Men's Rights.

Then I see this bullshit? You know nothing about sex, about human relationships, oppression or about society in general.

Leave troll.

Lead-farmer · 2012-03-12T20:10:48+00:00

TIL every time I have sex it's rape.

NiceGuysSTFU · 2012-03-12T20:42:54+00:00

Don't feed the troll.

rightsbot · 2012-03-12T20:10:22+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Dadentum · 2012-03-12T20:22:44+00:00

[permanently deleted]

CedMon · 2012-03-12T20:36:35+00:00

So you're a RadFem?

ThePigman · 2012-03-12T21:02:50+00:00

"So, in heterosexual relationships, where male dominance is assumed,"

HaHaHaHaHa

Oh brother... see, this is the kind of post the mods should axe as soon as it hits the ground. At best this person is a moron, at worst they are just trying to waste our time with another shitstorm.

Snooves · 2012-03-12T21:08:12+00:00

OP, you're an idiot.

ThePigman · 2012-03-12T21:28:07+00:00

Come on people, are we really this stupid? Why even argue with this twerp?

"Also, this specific issue wouldn't really apply to M/M and F/F relationships, because there's no dominance differential there."

Yes, no dominance differential in gay relationships. I suspect most gays would call bull on that one, especially the ones who have had abusive partners (Jessica Kalish, whose ex- girlfriend stabbed her to death comes to mind)

"I mean, even if the female consents, can it on some level because of mind control?"

Mind control? "Oh no, he's raping me with his mind!" This entire post is nothing but a rad fem bit of propaganda meant to waste our time. The quote about gays should make it obvious that this is just the old Andrea Dworkin bullshit about all heterosexual sex being rape. I suppose we can now expect various tactics like arguing that we should all be using his/her personal definitions of things like dominance etc...

Dadentum · 2012-03-12T22:34:38+00:00

This has nothing to do with Men's Rights.

Celda · 2012-03-12T20:30:10+00:00

The scary realization should in fact be of your own stupidity.

Title	Scary Realization.
Author	Dadentum
Upvotes	0
Comments	56
Date	March 12, 2012 8:09 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qtdik/scary_realization/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/scary-realization.1026070 https://theredarchive.com/post/1026070

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