Child support

ExcellentTraffic123 · 2021-08-16T14:57:59+00:00

I agree with u/oncefa2 and u/mathematicianno4277 that it is unfortunate that your father did not receive the necessary mental health services he needed. Or perhaps he did, but he refused to follow advice by stopping his meds. Or perhaps the meds made him feel worse and I'm victim-blaming by saying it's his fault for not taking his meds.

I've been on child abuse subreddits under a different Reddit ID.

But here's the thing: your father's situation is something that is completely out of your control. You're talking about a man who threatened your mother's life! You told us that he threatened your mother's life with a deadly weapon in his hands and that is not okay in any universe!

Personally, I had to distance myself from my father even though he didn't physically threaten me. His hateful and corrosive attitudes were harmful to my well-being. I completely understand that the instinct is to want to feel love and acceptance with a parent, but it sounds to me like this relationship is far beyond repair and you would be best served by avoiding him and seeking out mental health services for yourself. I would tell you that you need therapy.

I would also recommend a visit to r/cptsd, which I recommend to all survivors of child abuse, male and female alike.

Please be safe and care for yourself. This is not your fault and you don't owe him anything.

turbulance4 · 2021-08-16T17:45:55+00:00

First I'd like to say that it sounds like there is something here that you are unaware of. Yes you know he went off his meds and became an alcoholic, but it sounds like you don't know why (or maybe you just didn't add those details here). There probably was some triggering event, maybe your mom cheated on him, maybe he witnessed a horrific death, who knows what but there probably was something.

I understand he wasn’t and still isn’t in his right mind, but I lived in complete poverty for a good portion of my life, despite the fact that his side of the family was rich. Is this right?

Right? No. But what can anyone do about it. I think if someone creates a life they are obliged to take care of it. Preferably by direct support (providing food, clothes, and shelter), but in cases where that isn't possible then by monetary support. But it sounds like you're father couldn't even support himself. I mean, if I'm reading this right, it's not like he was making all kinds of money and keeping it from your mom. He was unable to make money. There isn't really a way to force a person to be profitable.

I know he’s dying now due to liver failure, but, I don’t want to answer it, whats your stance here as men, should I give him another chance?

I don't think you should feel obligated to. You may want to, just to have some closure.

MathematicianNo4277 · 2021-08-16T14:45:46+00:00

The same situation has different possible and equally valid analysises depending on your point of view.

As an abandonned daughter, you have every right to be mad. You were the child, he was the adult. He screwed up and it is not your duty to make things right. But it's your choice. If you want to be at peace, if you want to understand, if you want to be kind , or for any other reason you can choose to reach out (or not reach out). It's your personnal, individual choice. It is not political. There isn't a leftwing or rightwing position about this.

As a leftwinger, mental illness especially in men, is usually tied to untreated trauma and inadequate access to professionnal help due to social, financial and organisationnal reasons. Likewise poverty is the result of capitalism, or at least unsufficient safety nets to protect the weaker among us from falling off. It just shouldn't exist.

Blauwpetje · 2021-08-16T15:35:27+00:00

I'd say, say farewell to him and leave all the bad things in the past. But if it feels safer, just do it on the phone and make no concessions about that.

_-_010_-_ · 2021-08-16T19:21:15+00:00

Since you specifically asked for a left-wing position, here it goes:

No one deserves to live in poverty, especially not children. This is the failure of a system that could provide for everyone, but doesn't. As you've had to painfully witness, the child support system doesn't actually support children all that well. It still exists, because it allows the capitalist class to offload the cost of raising the children onto the (assumed) father, to use him as a scapegoat if he fails to provide, and even lock him up if he can't or won't work enough.

It is entirely unnecessary. The United States produces more than enough food to guarantee enough healthy food for everyone, but would rather destroy mountains of perfectly good food than give it to those in need. The US has more vacant homes than homeless people, but ending homelessness would put the feudal housing system at risk. The US has enough wealth to provide for all its citizens, but that would mean giving ressources to those who work instead of those who own.

What does that mean for you and your father? Not too much, I'm afraid.

Be compassionate with him and understand that he too suffered from a system that doesn't work from him, but also understand that what happened to you wasn't right either, and protect yourself. I don't think it's your dad's fault you lived in poverty, but it is his fault how he treated you and your mother and his mother. Neither threatening or enacting violence was right or justified. We shouldn't make excuses for abusive behaviour. Every child deserves to grow up in a safe environment.

Regarding the letter, I'm weary. If he wanted to give you a heartfelt apology, he could have done so in the letter. He didn't do so, and he didn't say anything else either. Why? Is he expecting you to not call if you knew why he wanted to talk? You won't know unless you call, but you're under no obligation to do so. If you do call him, please understand that you have the power and the right to hang up on him at any moment. If you realize during the call that you don't want to talk to him anymore, you can say goodbye, hang up and never see him again. Do not let him pressure you into something you're not comfortable with.

Phantombiceps · 2021-08-16T17:57:37+00:00

In my opinion, saying a loving farewell and being kind to your terrible, piece of crap father is really for you , not him. It stands to benefit you in the future and to help with closure.

DishwaterDumper · 2021-08-16T18:57:42+00:00

Do it if you want to, not just because you think he deserves it or others will judge you for it. But also think honestly how you might feel a couple decades from now, when you are on your deathbed -- if you think then that you will regret not talking to him, then you should do it now even if it makes you uncomfortable. If you'll be happier having not talked to him, then don't.

Oncefa2 · 2021-08-16T13:08:40+00:00

There are likely societal and institutional issues that drove him to that point. He never received the help that he needed, and the idea of supporting an entire family when he couldn't even support himself, was likely too stressful for him to handle on his own.

We do this to a lot of men: they need help and support, but we don't give it to them. And if they have a wife, or a girlfriend, or kids, we just throw that on top of all the problems that they already have. How exactly do you expect someone to take care of other people when they can barely take care of themselves?

As to your living situation, I think that comes down to a failure of society and welfare. We expect men, including broken men, to take care of women and children. So the state takes a backseat. When it should probably be a little more involved.

We actually have a thread stickied about this right now with a ton of solutions to this problem:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/p52r79/providing_for_children_increasing_equality_and/

I guess it's up to you if you want to see him again though. I don't know what to tell you on that one. You don't sound bitter or resentful, which is better than a lot of people. It's easy to blame a man for not being there, even when there were clearly structural problems that were in the way the whole time. We don't do the same thing to women and mothers because we seem to have bigger hearts, and more forgiveness, for women.

We also don't see the same thing happening in reverse to begin with because society doesn't demand that women support men the way it demands that men support women. I think if women had to support men and children the way men have to support women and children, you'd see women pushed to the brink, getting violent, drinking alcohol, running off, and not paying child support, just like you do with stressed out fathers.

blueleaf78 · 2021-08-16T18:22:30+00:00

Personally, I can't form an opinion without knowing a lot more details (way more than you could possibly describe here, I imagine).

You didn't deserve any of this. That, I'm 100% sure of.

But as for your dad, you mention that he stopped taking his meds, so I assume he had some kind of disorder. What I'm wondering is, how much did that disorder factor in his behavior? Mental disorders can sometimes be so severe that they really, really mess up people and make them do terrible things. Maybe your dad could have kept things under control, but maybe his mental issues were too severe.

If I were to pass judgement on him, I'd also have to ask if your mom shares any responsibility. Was he perhaps responsible enough to know he shouldn't have kids, and she tricked him into having one anyway? Did she do anything to push him off the edge...? Obviously this is just speculation, your mom could have done nothing wrong at all. The point is, nobody can really answer your question because there's so much we'd need to know.

I will tell you two things though:

If your father is dying, this is the last chance you'll have of speaking to him and perhaps getting some answers, apologies or closure. Meeting him could also turn out to be a very unpleasant experience for you - maybe he won't be apologetic, maybe he'll just make excuses for himself, maybe he won't even admit he messed up, maybe he'll blame you or make you feel bad... But if you don't take this opportunity, you might spend the rest of your life wondering what he would have said to you.
Ultimately, you owe him nothing. Even if his mental health issues are 100% to blame for his behavior, you don't owe him anything. So don't feel obligated to meet him or speak to him. Don't think of yourself as a bad person if you don't contact him. The decision is entirely yours to make.

I wish you luck, sincerely. You have a very hard choice to make and nobody can tell you what the right decision is.

Edit: I noticed you mention he avoided finding a job just so your sister and yourself wouldn't get any money from him. I'm very skeptical of that. If he wasn't working, then he wasn't making any money for himself either... It would take a very, very spiteful person to do something like this. It would be like cutting off your face just to spite your nose. Such people exist but they are rare. I suspect that the more likely explanation is that he couldn't take care of himself, and someone who hated him (your mom perhaps?) told you that he wasn't working because he didn't want to give you any money. Maybe not, but please consider that you may not have been told the entire truth about your father.

lightning_palm · 2021-08-16T21:22:04+00:00

You know, I can somewhat relate to your situation. I'm not even trying to judge the situation. These are the last moments of his life. No matter how shitty he has been before that, I would want to hear his last words. And that has nothing to do with his gender, or the child support situation. If you do decide to hear him out, it's probably better to not expect anything of the conversation. If it were me, I think I would regret not even hearing him out. You won't be able to undo that decision.

Talik1978 · 2021-08-16T18:03:19+00:00

My personal thoughts (and I am keeping this tightly focused on your situation):

Evading child support is unfortunately more common than it should be, and you are more than right to judge someone negatively for not standing up for their obligations. This is especially true for families with money (my girlfriend is dealing with something similar, in a purple state, an ex is living off family money and not working to evade payments).

That said, child support is between him, your other parent, and the courts. My usual take on these situations is to judge them based on their interaction with you. Again, it doesn't seem like he has been terribly invested in your life over the years.

Ultimately, do what is best for you. If that means not reaching out to him, that's OK. If you have questions that you really want answered, consider reaching out to answer those, especially since his long term health is not great. Either way, set your boundaries, enforce them, and make it clear that the interaction is on your terms.

Again, think about what you feel is best for you. There's no right or wrong, in terms of contacting or choosing not to. Everyone deserves love and acceptance, and I am sorry that your situation has been harder than it needed to be.

Title	Child support
Author	Blab7503
Upvotes	20
Comments	15
Date	August 16, 2021 10:28 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/p5ddnr/child_support/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/child-support.1060629 https://theredarchive.com/post/1060629

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