The Embrace of New Traditionalists and Feminists: Female Privilege - WokeFather.com

mhandanna · 2020-12-11T16:58:41+00:00

10.3 If men’s issues are comparable to women’s issues in severity, why haven’t they gotten a movement yet? Why don’t people recognise their severity?

The traditionalist system of gender does not deal well with the idea of men needing support. Men are expected to be strong, to not complain, and to deal with problems on their own. Men’s problems are more often seen as personal failings rather than victimhood, due to our gendered idea of agency. This discourages men from bringing attention to their issues (whether individual or group-wide issues), for fear of being seen as whiners, complainers, or weak. As one reddit user describes, “[v]oicing men’s problems and concerns is seen as a violation of the way that men are supposed to behave, and cuts men off from the status needed to enact any kind of change”.

For more detail, see this 2009 doctoral dissertation on the discourses and ideas that lead to the ignoring of men’s equality problems (§ 7.5.2.2). It talks about traditionalist ideas like chivalry (§ 7.4.5: “we must prioritize women’s comfort and lives over men’s”) and macho masculinity (§ 7.2.3: “men should not complain and be sissies”), as well as feminism (§ 7.3.34: “women are the disadvantaged and discriminated gender”).

11.1 So the problems—both the issues themselves, and the lack of recognition of the issues—come primarily from the traditionalist system of gender. Feminists fight against that, so isn’t feminism the answer?

I’ve seen feminists who’ve challenged traditionalist attitudes for hurting men or who’ve engaged in activism on men’s issues more broadly. But looking at the overall feminist movement’s priorities, it’s very clear that women are first and men are a distant second. That’s completely expected given their belief that women are much worse off, but I disagree with them on that. I can’t accept feminism as “the answer” for men if I don’t think they properly acknowledge the scale and effect of men’s issues.

Consider the statement from feminist Jackie Blue (Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner at the New Zealand Human Rights Commission as of 2016) that “[g]ender equality is about accepting that at birth, half of us are intrinsically discriminated and treated differently based on sex”. Obviously she means women. That approach to gender equality is not one that will fix men’s issues.

The post “What is Feminism?” on EverydayFeminism says that feminism is for men too, but the very first point it makes under that heading is about how men are expected to mistreat women (to “dominate, abuse, exploit, and silence [them] in order to maintain superiority”) and how most of them are troubled by treating women like this. That’s an example of “helping men” with women as the real priority.

Also, the problems for men don’t just come from gender traditionalism. Some aspects of feminism are a problem for men.

11.4 How do some feminists reinforce aspects of gender traditionalism?

One of the biggest issues in feminism is “violence against women”. There are countless campaigns to end it or saying it’s “too common”, and feminist celebrity Emma Watson says “[i]t’s sad that we live in a society where women don’t feel safe”. But, as explained previously, women aren’t doing any worse in terms of violence victimization. In that context, the implication of this rhetoric is that women’s safety is more important than men’s. This clearly plays to traditionalist notions of chivalry that here help women.

(Women do feel less safe. From a 2011 article, “[w]omen fear crime at much higher levels than men, despite women being less likely to be crime victims”. But actual chance of victimization is more important than fear. Otherwise a middle class white person is worse off than a poor black person who’s probably less sheltered/fearful.)

Also, one frequently touted benefit of feminism for men is that it frees them from their gender roles like the stigma of crying. However, one go-to method for mocking or attacking men is to label them cry-babies, whiners, complainers, or man-children, labels that clearly have roots in shaming of male weakness and gender role non-compliance. This is evident in a common feminist “male tears” meme, which originatedwith the goal of making fun “of men who whine about how oppressed they are, how hard life is for them, while they still are privileged”. It’s been used by feminists Amanda Marcotte, Jessica Valenti (first picture), and Chelsea G. Summers (second picture).

MIT professor Scott Aaronson opened up on his blog about the psychological troubles he experienced after internalizing negative attitudes about male sexuality, which partly came from the portrayed connection between men and sexual assault in feminist literature and campaigns. He was clear he was still “97% on board” with feminism. Amanda Marcotte responded with an article called “MIT professor explains: The real oppression is having to learn to talk to women”, which included a “cry-baby” picture at the top. Another “cry-baby” attack comes from an article on the feminist gaming website The Mary Sue.

Another example of this general attitude is the #MasculinitySoFragile Twitter hashtag used to “call out and mock stereotypical male behaviors that align with the feminist concept of ‘toxic masculinity,’ which asserts that certain attributes of the Western machismo archetype can be self-detrimental to those who embrace them”. It’s like challenging beauty standards for women with #FemininitySoUgly; that doesn’t challenge those standards, it reinforces them.

Many feminist approaches to sexual assault and domestic violence reinforce gender traditionalism by downplaying or excluding anything outside of the “male perpetrator, female victim” paradigm. Mary P. Koss, an influential feminist voice on rape (and professor at the University of Arizona), says that it is “inappropriate” to say that men can be raped by women. She instead calls it “engaging in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman” (“The Scope of Rape”, 1993, page 206). For domestic violence, the article “Beyond Duluth” by Johnna Rizza of the University of Montana School of Law describes the Duluth Model, an influential domestic violence prevention program in the United States that takes a “feminist psycho-educational approach” to the problem.

Practitioners using this model inform men that they most likely batter women to sustain a patriarchal society. The program promotes awareness of the vulnerability of women and children politically, economically, and socially.

According to Rizza, the Duluth Model is the most commonly state-mandated model of intervention, and the only statutorily acceptable treatment model in some states.

https://becauseits2015.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/a-non-feminist-faq/

Oncefa2 · 2020-12-11T15:41:24+00:00

This is an article discussing how the "far left" (probably what we'd call radical liberalism) has more in common with traditional conservativism than it does progressive, left wing ideals. This is primarily mediated through modern day feminism, which views gender in much the same way that traditionalism does. Both ultimately promote similar ideas that are harmful to men and to gender equality in general.

A brief history of both movements, including their shared roots with classical liberalism, is discussed.

Btw this website wokefather.com has a lot of interesting content that is right up this sub's alley. Definitely worth checking out.

theromanshcheezit · 2020-12-11T23:04:20+00:00

Fucking hell, this is a great article and I really enjoyed reading it.

It seems like women today are the ones oppressing men in the sense that most of their existence is subsidized and provided by men.

The part of men paying the most taxes and women being tax-negative over their life time was really eye opening.

chris3212 · 2020-12-11T20:15:10+00:00

I'm interested to read more articles, but I have read 3 so far and they have all had flaws.

OkLetterhead10 · 2020-12-11T20:17:27+00:00

A lot of radical feminists think the family recreates patriarchal power structures and should be dismantled. What’s being complained about seems to be bog standard liberal feminism.

Also, clicked a link to hear about the law re: paternity tests and found myself in the midst of a rant about “feminist cunts”. I’m open to men’s issues but, damn, I don’t want to hear anything that dude has to say. 🤬

RockmanXX · 2020-12-14T12:42:31+00:00

Feminism was never a liberal Social Revolution divorced from Social Norms. Feminism has always been the same old chivalry rhetoric in a new bottle, albeit more politicized.

Traditionalist&Feminist values overlap on every single issue except for when it comes to Women's Role in Society, Feminists believe that Women should be free in truest sense of the word, free from all legal, familial, societal&moral obligations. That's why we have articles like "We shouldn't put ANY women in prison".

Title	The Embrace of New Traditionalists and Feminists: Female Privilege - WokeFather.com
Author	Oncefa2
Upvotes	54
Comments	39
Date	December 11, 2020 3:32 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/kb4xdx/the_embrace_of_new_traditionalists_and_feminists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/the-embrace-of-new-traditionalists-and-feminists.1062352 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062352

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