Are male-only spaces disappearing? If so, why, and is it a bad thing?

mewacketergi · 2020-02-03T17:23:54+00:00

It really looks like there is a social pressure on men-only spaces to admit women in the Western countries, but not the other way around, and that's not a good thing, at least from the networking perspective; the "boys club" is now relentlessly demonized as sexist, but the feminist-only advocacy "safe space" is praised as progressive.

Cyb3rd31ic_Citiz3n · 2020-02-03T21:13:44+00:00

I believe Article IX is killing male spaces in the USA, it has been weapon used by some feminists to shut down men's clubs and men dominated spaces - or force them to open their doors to all genders which changes the dynamic.

In the U. K. we don't have many of these "X only" clubs now the Working Men's clubs are just pubs now and male dominated spaces and industries now have quotas to meet.

I personally don't see anything wrong with ensuring that everyone feels they have an opoortunity to apply for any job they want and any open organisation they wish, however there are still some spaces which, I feel, should be for men and women exclusively. My reasoning being that the dynamic of each setting changes when the opposite sex is included. For instance, certain types of therapy groups, changing rooms and toilets.

I can only suggest that as time has gone on, the "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" mentality has been deconstructed as socially constructed genders norms and rules have been broken down. Or rather, as we've become a more accepting society of people's interests, loves and personal quirks we've removed the barriers that defined each of us as needing separate institutions and spaces. Why had this not occurred for women as much? Female privledge. Feminists want into men's spaces, women want to protect women's spaces, men don't necessarily want to be in women's spaces because we don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable... But feminists don't call out their own double-standards. Also, Men's Rights Activists have been heavily painted as being mysoginists and to be ridiculed and ignored, so our needs and wants are not taken as seriously. That's my hot take anyway /s.

ExcellentTraffic123 · 2020-02-03T16:56:10+00:00

In my view, we live in a society divided in so many ways: along lines of gender, race, religion, class, and more. I think that it is generally morbid for members of any group of people to be insular and avoid associating and interacting with "others".

In my view, it is generally a good thing for people to associate and interact with "others". If nothing else, I hope that members of a less segregated (by race, gender, religion, class, etc) society will be more empathetic and become familiar with the experiences and struggles of people who are different from them.

For that reason, I think that it is generally good to have fewer single-sex spaces. Whether there should be none at all is something I'm not certain about.

Haloisi · 2020-02-03T19:22:27+00:00

Society has different expectations of men and women. If a group contains only men, there is a shared experience of maleness who all experience the same expectations. This can decrease force of societal norms that is expected - because nobody has to "act" them. This could create the safe opportunity to go outside of gendered norms, without having women who "police' the men back to their own roles, or towards men are supposed to behave in a certain way.

From this background I can understand the need by some for a men-only space. So on the context of them disappearing I think this would be a good thing, if it is because they are not needed any more - preferably due to a decrease of social stereotypes and gendered expectations. If they disappear because it is not socially accepted any more to separate genders, I would consider that only fair if the same applies to women-only spaces. Otherwise it is just another way of stunting the emotional spaces of men.

cromulent_weasel · 2020-02-03T20:18:04+00:00

Do you have similar experiences with male-only spaces disappearing in younger generations?

I think about this a lot. I think that men are raised to be basically emotionally stunted, with the result being that we can only really form emotional connections with women (non-stunted people). That's why it feels more comfortable hanging out with women rather than other men.

I'm reading an excellent book called Raising Cain: protecting the emotional life of boys and it's really lighting a fire under me to

develop my own emotional vocabulary
do my utmost to help my boys grow up with an emotional vocabulary
help build social groups with other men

Because of the stereotype that men are all activity focussed than relationship focussed (which I think has more than a hint of truth) I'm going to try and launch some board game meetup groups, with primarily men there.

Do you have similar experiences with male-only spaces disappearing in younger generations?

Yes for sure. But I think things like http://menzshed.org.nz/ are an excellent attempt at reclaiming groups for men.

If you know of other groups like this please reply with a link.

romulusnr · 2020-02-03T17:39:15+00:00

I think of it like this: historically men of all classes dominated industry, and that was the male-only space. (Lower class) Women did work, but it was often within the homes of the upper classes (as maids and housekeepers), or on farms (as milkmaids and so on) or as prostitutes. Women who didn't work (upper classes) would form crochet circles, book clubs and the like (aside: it's interesting to look up how women covertly taught each other to read via sewing patterns and then would meet to discuss books they had read and to educate each other). So female-only spaces were created by women consciously, while men didn't need to do that because they already had that in the workplace. And in their leisure time, in pubs and bars, hunting clubs etc, where the majority of patrons would be men, there was still likely (lower class) female staff.

Fast-forward to now, and men are lagging in the male-only space department because women have joined us in industry (which I generally consider a good thing, for the record), while women have female-only spaces down because they've been doing it for a long time, often out of necessity (just not necessarily for the reasons feminists would attribute it to).

TL,DR: I'm not sure that male-only spaces are disappearing so much as few were created in the first place, and those that were now welcome women thanks to egalitarianism (although feminists would gladly take the credit for it).

Luciano700 · 2020-02-03T17:10:34+00:00

Male spaces are good if it's something that's a cohesive cause. If you're just in a male space for the sake of conformity you're being manipulated and groomed to seek validation from other male associates. You need to have an actual common cause for the male space to seem practical

highmrk · 2020-02-04T23:09:21+00:00

Single gender spaces are important and it’s even more urgent to highlight the positives of male spaces since they’re becoming close to non-existent.

When men gather together, they (At least have the potential to) forge their masculinity. So then once they go back to the world of women, they’re more “charged up” and attractive to them, i.e. increased polarity.

You’ll notice that men act different when women are around, esp when they’re younger and more likely to put women on a pedestal.

If they’re in spaces with both men and women for too much time, each sex will get tired and frustrated of the opposite sex.

This isn’t saying that men and women can’t work in the workplace together. Just that they both need some same sex spaces to recharge and mingle with their peers. I would say similarly to how a boyfriend and girlfriend don’t needa be “best friends.” You should still have your homies. Just watch “I Love You, Man.”

There’s a great David Deida talk where he discusses it, I’ll try to find it on YouTube

insane_gravy · 2020-02-03T17:42:35+00:00

I do not mourn the passing of male only spaces for the same reason I do not mourn the gradual disappearance of male only dormitories and living arrangements. If you want a better tomorrow you have to learn how to get along with others. Excluding half the population is not part of that.

Title	Are male-only spaces disappearing? If so, why, and is it a bad thing?
Author	GaborFrame
Upvotes	17
Comments	44
Date	February 3, 2020 4:44 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ey9tyn/are_maleonly_spaces_disappearing_if_so_why_and_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/are-male-only-spaces-disappearing-if-so-why-and-is.1064068 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064068

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