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[–]LordranKing 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You can only be a feminist in a 1st world country
[–]traveller1976 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Absolute gospel truth. Women in the rest of the world simply don't have this luxury.
[–]Consistent_Ebb5876 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm pretty sure those women are also capable of thinking.
[–]sharpcheddar3322 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
thats the problem....
[–]Consistent_Ebb5876 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You can support women's rights no matter where you live.
[–]Unlucky_Desk_5468 40 points41 points42 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
It's crazy that a woman can go out and protest 24/7 and still have a roof over their heads and food in her I'm assuming overweight mouth.
On the other hand a man for the most part can't rely on anyone to provide for him so he can't protest for mens rights......its a sad time we live in .... Sry fellas 😥
[–]Soggy_Nose_71731 points 3 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Only thing man can do is wise up and FAST so they don't get exploited by the family court system or legal system.
[–]traveller1976 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Divorce court is basically male castration. Financial ruin is assured. In some cases male suicide is the outcome.
[–]Aimless-Nomad 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Somewhat funny article on the same
[–]stacyxxluv -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
No one is protesting 24/7 and you know it. Not even the most hardcore feminists. Stop with the bs please.
[+]twistednormz -6 points-5 points-4 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You have no reason to assume that a random woman you haven't met will be overweight. This just reads like you hate women
[–]Unlucky_Desk_5468 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You're missing the point nd no why would I hate myself?
[–]twistednormz -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're missing the point
I wasn't referring to your point, I was referring to just that comment where you assumed a random woman would be overweight? It's a weird comment, I'm curious as to why you said that.
why would I hate myself?
You specifically I've no idea why, but there are lots of people in the world who hate themselves, lots of people suffering from depression, for example. As another example there are lots of women brought up to believe that men are better than women, and hate themselves as a result, could that be you?
[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Yea as a woman I've achieved the career of my choice. Married , have childern that are grown or about grown. Not oppressed to the house all day long cleaning lol. It's a pretty good life.
I've never protested for anything. Everything that affects me I've achieved relatively easy with determination and staying goal oriented.
[–]No_Cartographer_74421 points 3 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
Your children will suffer and may turn against you because the schools will brain wash your chldren. You're not as smart as you think.
[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
What part of my childern are grown do you not comprehend?
[–]No_Cartographer_74421 points 3 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
They have been brainwashed at least since the 60’s. clearly you can not comprehend what I typed. Adults were once children.
[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Stop trying to back pedal you make no logical sense
[–]No_Cartographer_74421 points 3 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I am not back pedalling. The brain washing has been going for decades. Maybe you are too slow to get it.
[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Lol , no body is brain washed . Stop playing victim .
[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What exactly are my grown children going to turn against me for ? Because they're independent .They don't live with their mom and dad. Growing up to be self-sufficient?
[–]RisingWolfe11 25 points26 points27 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I dont see anything preventing me from anything. 😂
I see some things men can't do, tjat women can (child support favoring women is an example)
But I feel like a member of society 🤔 and don't see any oppression (in the US! Other places do, but not here. Wanted to clarify) (I am a woman btw ')
[–]Masked_Rebel 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
it's also illegal to mutilate a baby girl's genitals at birth, but litte boys are circumcised left and right
[–]RisingWolfe11 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Which is so sad!
I dokt really get the reason tbh, no one has been able to explain why its needed 🤔
[–]Masked_Rebel 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it might have something to do with religious freedom, circumcision was in the bible I think, but the thing is, you can never be sure if your son will grow up and and still want to be religious.
[–]sharpcheddar3322 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
did you know that child marriage is legal in the us as long as the parents sign off on it? yes, maybe some boys have been effected by this law, but guess who it mostly effects? Young girls. because older men are seeing them as their future life and mother of their future children. So they are signed off by their parents to their new life. this happens here in the US.
[–]RisingWolfe11 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not gonna lie, that is crazy.
But I mean Alabama (pretty sure?) Had beastiality laws until a few years ago.
It can be changed, still doesn't prove women are more oppressed, but I do see it. Thanks
[–]namayake 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
I would agree, but only so long as responsibility is taken off "women" and placed on feminists. It's feminists who push gender war, not women!
[–]stophinderingme 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, feminists of both genders.
[–]DoppelGangHer88 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
No, women en masse benefit from the second-class status of men, as a group, so we're all culpable. It's up to each of us to be striving for better treatment for men and boys.
[–]namayake 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You can benefit from something without agreeing with or advocating for it, can't you? And there are already anti-feminist women who feel revulsion at the idea that they're benefiting as both men in general, and those they care about suffer. But based on your stance, they should also be lumped into the same group and shamed. How is that productive? It's the ideology that's the issue, not one's demographics.
[–]DoppelGangHer88 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm not saying we should be shamed, I'm saying we're culpable and responsible for fighting against it. The ideology gives first-class status based on demographics.
[–]namayake 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That might be true, but it's still feminists who pushed for gender supremacy, not women across the board. Put responsibility where responsibility is do. Otherwise it's making the same mistake as feminists, and that's equating a person's sex/gender to an ideology--a person's sex doesn't dictate a person's beliefs. This is proven empirically.
[–]DoppelGangHer88 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not saying it dictates their conscious belief system but there are still women who don't call themselves feminist who hold underlying, unconscious feminist beliefs; like accepting alimony/child support/unequal custody, laughing at or downplaying men's pain or role in society (i.e. when a man gets hit in the crotch or sexually harassed, bumbling dad trope, seemingly innocuous demeaning of their husbands/boyfriends), not viewing female-on-male violence the same as vice versa, et al.
There are so few women who don the label of feminist but so many who still happily benefit from its fruits and believe in its ideals. Women as a whole have a lot of work to do to undo and unlearn these conscious and subconscious thought-patterns that contribute to and proliferate the subjugation of men and boys; myself included.
[–]namayake 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So maybe what you're getting at is female chauvinism is to blame, which includes feminism? Though it needs to be said that not all women are chauvinists--it's the chauvinists who need to be called out, not women across the board. I do understand though, that gender war is rooted in our culture. And some things people do not because they believe in them, but to unconsciously fit into the crowd. But when it's on that scale, what needs to happen is to build awareness. We can start calling out the chauvinists after awareness has been made but they hatefully continue to behave in that manner anyway.
[–]maxlvb 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Ahhh the 'let's claim women are innocent' of feminism's faults trope, so loved by feminist WOMEN everywhere...
The vast majority of self identifying feminists are also women, are you really trying to tell us that women aren't responsible for what they believe in, follow, and practice?
Why feminism? Because rich white girls need to feel oppressed too...
[–]namayake 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
And yet if you start claiming that to be a woman means to automatically belong to an ideology or philosophy, then that makes you no better than feminists. They make the same claims about men. To be of a certain sex or gender does NOT mean that a person carries specific beliefs about sex or gender. This is the mistake that both feminists and conservatives make, and is the basis for gender war.
Call out the ideologies, leave the demographics alone.
[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
FYI: Ideologies (like feminism) cannot and do not exist without the demographics (principally women) that create, promote, and perpetrate said ideologies...
How is it that you cant understand that fact?
Two simple word that most feminists struggle to understand: Facts and Evidence.
If you get offended by MRA's here in this sub talking about all that is wrong with feminism and the women that promote it, then you are part of the problem that makes such talk necessary....
Feminists, women, and their white knight defenders (like yourself?) need to stop holding men to standards they're personally and collectively unwilling to meet.
I am still waiting for any/all feminists to define feminism for me without using sexist anti-male stereotypes.
[–]namayake -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
FYI: Ideologies (like feminism) cannot and do not exist without the demographics (principally women) that create, promote, and perpetrate said ideologies... How is it that you cant understand that fact?
Your analysis doesn't encompass or acknowledge that there are women who DON'T believe in feminism--in fact there are even women who are anti-feminists. And your analysis doesn't acknowledge that there are male feminists as well. By trying to place a specific demographic on an ideology, you alienate half the demographic that belongs to the ideology. And you place responsibility on those who aren't adherents. There's nothing about it that's based in logic and evidence. So I might return the same question to you and ask, as someone who's supposedly a proponent of logic and evidence, how is it that you can't understand what I'm talking about?
[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Your analysis doesn't encompass or acknowledge that there are women who DON'T believe in feminism
🤣🤣🤣
I'm not talking about women who DONT believe in feminism. EOS.
And your analysis doesn't acknowledge that there are male feminists as well. By trying to place a specific demographic on an ideology,
What's your point? You specifically tried to absolve women from the problems with feminism. Now suddenly you're trying classify who it is you're talking about???
How feminist of you. 🤣🤣🤣
By trying to place a specific demographic on an ideology, you alienate half the demographic that belongs to the ideology.
Again with the feminist women aren't to blame for the wrongs of feminist ideology.
Feminist ideology isn't a sentient, independant, separate 'entity' from those who call themselves feminist, no matter how much white knight apologists like you wish it was.
It is a belief and ideology of anti-male sexism, misandry, hate of men, by those that choose to call themselves feminist. That's it. That's all.
And you place responsibility on those who aren't adherents.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. 🤣🤣🤣
Not all women are feminist, but enough of them are and they hate all men...
Feminism today is a monolithic ideology demanding conformity in its pursuit of painting women as weak perpetual victims who can't handle facts, objective reality, or personal agency.
[–]namayake 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What are you even arguing? At first you were stating that it's women that are to blame, not feminists. Now you're saying it's feminists, not women? You can't choose two contradicting stances at the same time. Now you're just being a troll. Go away.
[–]maxlvb 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
(again) That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
When you abuse those who have a different opinion to yours, you lose the argument.
When the argument is lost, abuse becomes the response of the loser.
Unfortunately, although your comment was indeed clear, simple, and straightforward, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts, insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
As a women myself, I both agree and disagree with this. I personally think that in most western countries there is little gender bias against women, and that women have the same if not more opportunities than men. Having said that, there is a lot of female oppression in Middle Eastern and African countries, particularly where religion plays a major part. So in conclusion, I think that western woke feminists should stop complaining over trivial problems and actually make an effort to improve life for those genuinely oppressed.
[–]maxlvb 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
As a women myself, I both agree and disagree with this. I personally think that in most western countries there is little gender bias,
Really?
Real equality today...
Men are 97% of combat fatalities.
Men make up 94% of work suicides.
Men make up 93% of work fatalities.
Men make up 81% of all war deaths.
80% of all suicides are men.
77% of homicide victims are men.
89% of men will be the victim of at least one violent crime.
Men are over twice as victimised by strangers as women.
Men are 165% more likely to be convicted than women.
Men get 63% longer sentences than women for the same crime.
Court bias against men is at least 6 times bigger than racial bias.
Males are discriminated against in school and universities.
Boys face vastly more corporal punishment than girls.
60-80% of the homeless are men.
Women's cancers receive 15 times more funding than men's.
At least 10% of fathers are victims of paternity fraud.
One third of all fathers have lost custody of children; most are expected to pay for this.
Men lose custody in 84% of divorces.
Men pay 97% of Alimony
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/mars-vs-venus-the-gender-gap-in-health
https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/men-die-younger-government-funding-womens-healthcare
https://prostate.org.nz/2014/01/men-die-earlier-womens-health-gets-four-times-funding/
https://www.bbc.com/news/education-31751672
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/29/suzanna-walters-man-hating-professor-slapped-title/
https://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-society-sexist-against-men-and-how-we-can-fix-it
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I sorta meant to say I think there is little gender bias against women, so my mistake I’ll edit that. But seriously, thanks for the data. There is a lot there that I had no idea about, and I’m glad for the opportunity to broaden my viewpoint as a woman and form new opinions based on legitimate data.
[–]traveller1976 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Preach sister
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not to mention the biggest opponent to fathers rights are feminists themselves, mainly NOW. One of the biggest issues for men, one actually effected by laws and not some perceived social issue highly dependent on a ton of factors.... women are the ones fighting against it, and very actively.
While at the same time these same women complain non stop about "being stuck with a child".... girl, we are trying to get that child and YOU keep stopping it because you would rather have a more money in your pocket at the expense of the father of your child.
[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I do pretty much what I want and yes I'll ask my husband for his opinion. However he doesn't dictate my life cause I'm not out here doing stupid stuff so we respect and trust each other.
[–]Toran_dantai 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I literally feel that it’s gotten so bad that women run society and men are a underclass subserviant to said society
[–]MelodiousTones[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link
Women couldn’t get credit cards in their own name until 1974.
[–]akihonj 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link
Yeah that's true but then again they also now have the largest amount of personal debt.
You're also forgetting that for the longest time they couldn't because many didn't have any viable income to pay the debt besides what money was brought in by their husbands.
As well as the debt rules being extremely simple, if you can't personally afford to pay money back you can't borrow the money in the first place.
So while your statement is true, it's actually a lie by omission because you made a statement taking it totally out of context.
[–]MelodiousTones[🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
No honey, these were women with incomes. They were actively discriminating against women who had the same credit qualifications as men.
[–]akihonj 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
No sweety women with money could always get loans and credit cards, sorry to shatter your illusions, certainly in the west, in fact it was common place for women to own their own property and slaves at one time along with running a business.
In fact there was actually a BBC series set during the industrial revolution called gentleman jack, you may want to check it out, that's long before the invention of credit cards darling so you might have to look beyond your kindergarten feminist literature.
[–]MelodiousTones[🍰] -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/10/28/fact-check-9-things-women-couldnt-do-1971-mostly-right/3677101001/
[–]akihonj 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Let's see you're using a tabloid rag that never lets facts get in the way of outrage bait and claiming it as facts because a fact checker, read feminist clown, said so.
Perhaps you need to go back and graduate kindergarten. Actually learn to use Google.
[–]MelodiousTones[🍰] 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/history-of-women-and-credit-cards/
https://time.com/nextadvisor/credit-cards/ruth-bader-ginsburg-credit-card-legacy/
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/women-credit-decades-70s
https://www.nytimes.com/1974/10/11/archives/congress-passes-bill-banning-bias-against-women-on-credit-women.html
Aren’t you tired of being wrong? Like why just make stuff up?
[–]DoppelGangHer88 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/9-things-women-could-not-do/
"Get a credit card in her own name
As this post explains, banks were able to discriminate against women applying for credit cards until the passage of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act in October 1974. Women could get credit cards prior to this legislation, but as The Smithsonian notes, they were likely to be asked a barrage of personal questions and were often required to be accompanied by a man to co-sign for a credit card. Even then, women often received cards with lower limits or higher rates."
This is because men were responsible for women's debt. If you were an independently wealthy woman without a spouse, you could get a CC; it was harder but not impossible.
[–]akihonj 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Why do you think I'd be tired when I'm far from wrong, within the UK, within most parts of the USA a woman who had her own money could absolutely get credit, loans and cards, the fact remains your but hurt because many women didn't earn their own money, yet again you expect a situation where you get to behave as you'd like and expect men to pay for it.
The fact remains women who didn't have any income aside from what their husband provided could not have cards because the debt was not theirs but their husbands.
As of now, women can have debt, and they e fully enjoyed that by creating an economy based on debt in fact women have the largest consumer debt of any individual group, in fact women also have the largest amount of student debt of any group.
Seems like it was a good thing to not let women have debt.
[–]twistednormz -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Brilliant. Well done. I bet he won't reply at all.
[–]MelodiousTones[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Haha! Nope!
[–]whenuwork 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The 1st fact alone, is all tied to the economy. Once banks (Rockefeller and friends) figured that if they added women to their borrowing customer base, and letting them have jobs would ensure income to repay loans and credit cards, it was all game from there. Banking magnates pulled political strings to allow for law reforms because it would be good for the economy if women had jobs and could borrowe money. Here are today.
[–]AffectionateRun5053 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
I would advise not even wasting time engaging with low iq trolls like that one...
[–]akihonj 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
I can't help myself I know when you drop those facts they usually go quiet, tell their own reflection how triggered they are and then blame all men for their daddy issues.
[–]twistednormz -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
You're the one who has gone quiet to u/ melodious tunes above. I'm so interested in your reply to all the sources they quoted, since your only problem with the first source was the quality of the newspaper.
[–]akihonj 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
🤡
[–]twistednormz -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
A clown emoji, is that really the best you can do? It reminds me that this sub is so full of teenage boys going through their hating women phase, that I probably shouldn't bother taking most debates here seriously. Also, I'm glad my comment guilted you into replying to u/ melodious tunes. Unfortunately your reply was nonsense and you didn't refer to any of the large number of sources they provided.
[–]akihonj 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
A clown emoji is the best you get simply because you are a clown, I didn't address the sources again simply because I don't need to.
I don't need to because the facts remain the same, in the west women who had their own source of income could get their own bank accounts and cards.
You're just upset, triggered if you want, because all of your sources say that women found it difficult to obtain these things, and at the same time ignore the fact that their ability to obtain these things related on the fact that the debt women would accrue would have tested on the husbands ability to pay the debt.
You really do have the intellectual capacity of a child, like saying I hate chivalry and then whining when men don't open doors for you. It really is laughable how you are only capable of understanding anything as long as you put men squarely in the centre of your blame game.
Of course you hate men and blame them for everything that goes wrong in your life, my only confusion then is why do you want validation so desperately from men..
[–]twistednormz -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I didn't address the sources again simply because I don't need to.
You do need to (if you're going to be intellectually honest at least). The commenter above made a point which you disagreed with on the basis that the source wasn't reliable. They then provided a variety of sources, but you refused to even acknowledge them. Clearly you are not trying to honestly engage in this discussion, so what's the point?
You really do have the intellectual capacity of a child, like saying I hate chivalry and then whining when men don't open doors for you
Are you mixing me up with someone else? I've never in my life said those words. I've also never whined when a man didn't open the door for me. In fact, many men and women have opened doors for me, and I have opened doors for many men and women, we are quite polite here where I live.
Of course you hate men and blame them for everything that goes wrong in your life,
I don't hate men and have never blamed them for anything going wrong in my life. You're just making stuff up here. Is this projection? Do you hate women and blame them for everything that goes wrong in your life? So you automatically think that anyone who disagrees with you must feel the same way?
my only confusion then is why do you want validation so desperately from men..
I don't, what gave you that idea? Is this projection again?
[–]akihonj 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes it's all projection.
[–]Master-Edward-3 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Ironically.. you brought up what you said about teenage boys..since this gynocentric world reminds me that women go through a hating men way of lifetime phase. Seems to just be a twisted norm you can say.
[–]twistednormz 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
More nonsense. Is there anyone left on this sub who can have a rational conversation? I remember having them a couple of times before.
[–]Master-Edward-3 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
May not find it within yourself. Because if nonsense is found wherever you go here then perhaps it’s time to look within.
[–]DoppelGangHer88 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Yes, and that's because we weren't responsible for any debt we accrued. We had ultimate access to our husband's money without any of the responsibility to go with it and we continue to be the biggest consumers.
You've just spun a privilege into a source of oppression.
[–]stacyxxluv 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link
Nope, this is about single women as well. They were actively discriminated against even when they had good credentials. Try again next time hun.
Also, women didn’t have a say over their husbands money. They weren’t allowed to make big purchases on their own. They also weren’t allowed to work when married. So of course the husband had to look after the wife. What else is he gonna do, let her starve? Problem is that women were forced to stay home and be dependent. Look up the marriage bar and you’ll know what I’m talking about.
[–]DoppelGangHer88 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I already debunked that in a separate comment. Single women had a harder time than men acquiring credit but it was possible. The law ensured that banks couldn't discriminate based on sex but some banks still decided to do business with independent women on their own; especially if they were independently wealthy.
Of course women were always allowed to work. What are you talking about? Women were nurses, nannies, laundresses, independent business-owners, madams, schoolteachers, maids, secretaries, they worked their family's businesses; in 1930, half of all single women worked outside the home and 12% of married women. They often dropped out of the workforce after marriage because they could rely on their husband's income, not because they couldn't work.
In 1771, New York passed the Act to Confirm Certain Conveyances and Directing the Manner of Proving Deeds to Be Recorded which required a married man to have his wife's signature on any deed to her property before he sold or transferred it and it required that a judge meet privately with the wife to confirm her approval.
Women absolutely had a say over money inside and outside marriages. Not as much as now, but you're under some pretty false notions about the scope of the issue and the reasoning behind it.
[–]stacyxxluv -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
You don’t have any knowledge on the subject if you don’t even know what the marriage bar is/was. It literally meant that married women weren’t allowed to work. Look it up please before you act like you know anything. My own grandmothers were both fired when they got married because of the marriage bar.
It’s really simple: just type in marriage bar in google and you will find a ton about it. Yes it didn’t mean all women couldn’t work, but professions like nurses, teachers etc couldn’t work while married in many countries.
Here’s a Wikipedia link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_bar
[–]DoppelGangHer88 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
You said "women couldn't work." As you've admitted, that's incorrect but you still have the temerity to call me ignorant.
As you said, those were for very limited professions, like teaching and clerical jobs. That didn't apply to all forms of work, in general. It was also relaxed in times of shortages and war and wasn't applicable in all parts of the various countries who enacted it. You don't have any knowledge of the subject if you didn't know that. I mean seriously, how do you not acknowledge all the working women throughout history?
"Marriage bars generally affected educated, middle-class married women, particularly native-born white women. Their occupations were that of teaching and clerical work. Lower class women and women of color who took jobs in manufacturing, waitressing, and domestic servants were often unaffected by marriage bars." https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w2747/w2747.pdf
Why are you dismissing the tons of women in non-cushy, lower class jobs who had to work to support their family? That's what's truly ignorant, if you ask me.
[–]stacyxxluv -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
You just said ‘women were always allowed to work’. No they weren’t, marriage bar was still extremely wide spread. Imagine government jobs, teaching, healthcare. That’s a lot of jobs. My grandma was a secretary, she got fired. My other grandma was a teacher, she also got fired.
And preventing women from doing the job they were performing just fine is always wrong. Literally firing people because they got married. Imagine forcing a schooled teacher to become a waitress or factory worker. No excuses for blatant sexism like that.
And wtf are you on about me dismissing poor women. I’m only trying to inform you on something that you obviously didn’t know before I said it to you. Marriage bar was extremely sexist and wrong. That has nothing to do with women only being allowed to do the ‘lowest paying jobs’. That even further proves my point of you ask me.
[–]DoppelGangHer88 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
Women weren't allowed in every profession, at all times; that didn't mean they couldn't work, didn't have control over money or were in danger of starving because they literally couldn't support themselves.
You're cherry-picking educated, middle-class white women and acting like it applied to all women, in general.
I'm not saying it wasn't sexism, I'm saying that your hyperbolic generalizing about what women were and weren't allowed to do isn't addressing the underlying nuances about the how and why and simply serves to proliferate the patriarchy narrative; completely ignoring that a lot of the things we weren't allowed to do were largely because we weren't also held to the responsibilities tied to those things.
[–]stacyxxluv 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
So you think it’s okay that women were fired from jobs just because they got married? You think it’s okay they couldn’t do the job that they loved? Sometimes even widowed women weren’t allowed to work because they were believed to still be married. It was that bad. So yes they could get in serious financial issues because of it.
Western countries were full of middle and upper class women, don’t act like I’m talking about a few dozen people here. It’s literally millions and millions of women that were hit by this marriage bar.
Also, you said ‘women were always allowed to work’. I simply responded to that because that is misinformation.
[–]DoppelGangHer88 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm pretty sure I didn't say it was okay. Don't put words in my mouth.
Once again, it wasn't that they weren't allowed to work: they weren't allowed in certain fields, at a certain percentage, at certain times, in certain parts of the country and it only effected certain women. It was a practice, not a law.
Once again, you're cherry-picking because clerics and teachers didn't account for the majority of women in the US.
[–]ScottdaDM 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If they actually admitted they got equal rights, they would have to go out and find real work. They ain't putting themselves out of business.
[–]traveller1976 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Absolutely correct. Given the pervasive and toxic misandry that infects most societies, men must go mgtow and protect themselves.
[–]sharpcheddar3322 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
the narcissism it takes to see how so many places view and treat women and you say "toxic misandry that infects MOST societies " lol come tf on
[–]casra888 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women still aren't equal. They don't bear the same responsibility as men.
Feminism is the belief women deserve rights and speaking out against sexism. The narcissism it takes to look at feminism and all you get out if is "its about harming men" is just off the freaking charts. Ofc people would look at feminism as a whole as something that just exists to be anti-men and not because women want a better life for their daughters.
[–]Lavarosen -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Equal rights and equal treatment are separate. In this post it would also call for men to not be oppressed because of equal given rights. Women and men both face inequalities of their gender every day, it should be a goal to strive not for hating on a group, but achieving the treatment you desire
[–]Langland88 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Ok then start by holding all Feminists accountable for their Misandry. Call it out, make actual public statements condemning Misandry, stop using them terms like Toxic Masculinity and Patriarchy as they have been perverted from their original definitions and created into hate speech.
No more No True Scotsman fallacies or Motte and Bailey style deflections to actual scrutiny we give to modern day Feminists. Feminism today is pure Misandry, there is no equality they strive for because they already have it. Women get equal pay they just work less hours and pursue lower paying career fields and yet they feel more fulfilled and happy despite that. Women are being prioritized over men to get accepted into STEM fields and that's still not enough for you. You don't want equality, you want better treatment for women simply because they are women and you want to make it socially acceptable to hate men regardless if they are individually good or bad. If you claim to be against this then you Feminists would have done away with the KAM hashtag and nipped it in the bud.
[–]Consistent_Ebb5876 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Roe vs Wade?
[–]sharpcheddar3322 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
so what you are saying is to stop using terms because certain people have perverted it? well it seems like "feminism" is a dirty nono word for many people now when it just means the belief women deserve equal rights and not to be mistreated because of their gender. But ofc when talking about women's value of life we should preface every thought by saying "now we understand how some feminists are, blah blah blah, we do NOT hate men" as long as its about you right?
[–]Cupcakesandparamore 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean not exactly. More like since the 2000s cause women couldn’t join the army or have credit cards in their name then. But since the early 2000s we’ve had complete equal rights
[–]Whotfiskarissa 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That is a very disgusting think to say considering that their are still women being stoned, forced to marry and having FGM being performed of them in many countries
[–]godworksout[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s not about those countries. The meme is obviously in English. Also, 1963 was the year of the equal pay act in the United States, so you should be able to grasp the context.
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