I fogged, and fogged, and fogged...

threekindsoflucky · 2022-12-20T08:30:08+00:00

The tools are simply tools. The more you use them, the better you get at knowing which tool to use and when.

Eventually, you stop thinking and just do what you want.

In this situation, I wouldn't have fogged. You were asked for your opinion. You provided it. She doesn't get to bitch that she doesn't like it. In my world that's a boundary cross and gets dealt with as such.

Fogging is a 'make it go away' tool. It's non aggressive and non confrontational. It has its place, and it's a good tool too. But it didn't work in this situation. You said what you thought. I wouldn't be fogging someone's response to my opinion. That's a them problem. Don't like what I said? Then don't ask for my opinion.

I like this post because you actually did something and now you're wondering why it got the result it did. You're thinking the right way.

ragnar_Daneskjold · 2022-12-20T18:17:20+00:00

she called needing my support after a fight with her parents

I know that feeling of "I'm so smart and good at relationships, she probably wants my rational verbal feedback".

In truth, this was a missed opportunity to solve her problem with some out of the box, dark, degrading and humiliating sex.

BobbyPeru · 2022-12-20T23:37:24+00:00

Here’s where you went wrong, and it’s a common mistake:

Yes maybe I really don't understand you, but that's how I felt.

As soon as you added the “but that’s how I felt,” it became DEERing.

I’m betting you did a lot of DEERing you thought was fogging. We see it all the time, guys thinking they are using tools, but really they’re just DEERing .

This is precisely why stfu is one of the first things you should practice.

LetsGoRando · 2022-12-20T14:37:45+00:00

Your opinion of what happened doesn't matter, don't give it. It's not your job to solve her family problems.

man_in_the_world · 2022-12-22T17:06:13+00:00

When your opponent refuses to give up on chasing you through the fog, you eventually have to switch to Broken Record and stand your ground somewhere.

rocknrollchuck · 2022-12-21T00:50:30+00:00

she called me needing my support after a fight with her parents.

After she felt better I agreed to tell her my opinion and criticized her father

So were you offering support or your opinion? She asked for your opinion because she wanted you to agree with her feelingz, not say what you really thought about her father.

Why was it all really that bad and so dragged out? My fogging just made everything way angrier on the other side, and my only option to exit was to hang the call in her face while she's crying.

Because she was looking for an apology, and when you didn't offer one up she got angry in hopes of you backing down. Good thing you didn't, because as long as you stay consistent here she will learn that anger and crying won't pressure you into apologizing.

Also, what would be the best action when we meet and "solve this"? Does it make sense to criticize her later for the manipulative behavior?

This is where you say "Next time let's discuss stuff like this in person instead of over the phone." Because that was the first thing you did wrong. Next time, a simple "Let's talk about this face to face when I get home" with some broken record if she insists on the phone convo will be very helpful for you. Be ready for her to spill her Feelz as soon as you walk in the door.

I finished by saying I care a lot, but don't want a situation like this ever again.

In person it's much easier to show sympathy and generate Feelz with your physical presence. The phone is for logistics when it comes to relationships.

disgruntleddigger · 2022-12-20T17:33:34+00:00

Good practice with the fogging, but when you see her again I wouldn’t even bring it up. You know when you catch up with a girl after something has been resolved, and you get something like the following “Hey I know we sorted’X’, I’ve been thinking and just want to say ‘Y’, but yeah we’re good’. It’s like your little brother coming past still drying theirs eyes and getting one last jab in, don’t do it bro.

There’s the reset concept, everyday, start fresh what happened yesterday was yesterday’s problem, and we already dealt with that. If she does bring it up, I would ‘broken record’ the shit out of it, and then boundary enforce, if you’re at her place leave, if she’s at yours just say “Hey I thought we sorted it?, I admitted what I said was harsh, but you asked for my opinion on the matter”. Nothing more.

She’s going to/try manipulate you, it’s all she knows, it works, its more than likely worked before and it will no doubt work in her life, for her again. Pretend she had a go at you for fogging, would you not dog that too, “I can see why you might think I’m fogging”. Saying/not saying sorry is easier than you think, you just acknowledge what happened and fix it, “Tell me that’s not how you wanted it done” big shit eating grin* “Damn it, honestly that’s not what I was going for”.

Praexology · 2022-12-23T06:34:23+00:00

Fogging is the first time you've solved a problem without giving her the catharsis of the "drama and resolution" show.

and my only option to exit was to hang the call in her face while she's crying. I finished by saying I care a lot, but don't want a situation like this ever again.

GET OVER IT allowing the fear of your ltr crying to be a serious reason to avoid conflict is a great way to give her to reigns of the relationship. If she can use tears to control you, she will. It's easy.

Look, a lot of these are just strategies for communication. If your LTR is approaching you in good faith, even the advice to avoid DEERing breaks down. Issue is, most men have been so weak, fearful of causing other people pain, and conflict avoidant that their women almost exclusively approach them with contempt because they are nothing but a source of negativity to their gfs/wives - meaning they would never have a reason to reapproach their men in good faith.

Fogging helps you develope the underlying skills of emotional control, deescalating conflict, STFU, and general awareness of other people's mood during stress. It's the conversational equivalent to a speedbag for boxers. Right now you have no idea why you're practicing this stuff, but it's developing all the deep muscle fibres necessary to be successful.

464_CONDOR · 2022-12-20T11:21:39+00:00

Also, what would be the best action when we meet and "solve this"? Does it make sense to criticize her later for the manipulative behavior?
I'm trying to understand how to deal with the whole apologizing issue as well, especially when I don't think I'm wrong. Am I just childish and egoistic?

My 2 cents: “listen babe, you asked for my opinion and I offered it. I criticized your dad too harshly at the moment because I was too emotionally invested at the time. That was my bad. I’m glad you guys worked everything out.”

Absolutely do not criticize her for her manipulative behavior. You’re the one who allowed yourself to be manipulated, so criticize yourself. Pointing out normal female behavior as a character flaw will lead to turmoil.

Apologizing is way more a complex subject than I think it gets credit for. I personally subscribe to NEVER using the words “I am sorry” unless I SELFISHLY act on a decision that truly wrongs someone. I’ll admit I fucked up, admit a bad call, admit I was wrong, acknowledge negative emotions in myself and empathize with/validate negative emotion in others, but I will not apologize unless I truly wronged someone. It definitely helps me maintain my frame as I learn MRP.

This response I know might be a little scatter brained, but I also liked your post and wanted to try to add value.

screechhater · 2022-12-26T14:49:40+00:00

Fogging is not about justifying your actions

Fogging is not about getting someone to fuck you

Fogging is not about being right

Title	I fogged, and fogged, and fogged...
Author	mrmonbant
Upvotes	15
Comments	14
Date	December 20, 2022 7:53 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/zqid2q/i_fogged_and_fogged_and_fogged/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/i-fogged-and-fogged-and-fogged.1144753 https://theredarchive.com/post/1144753

Comments