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Girls get 61% of A* marks at GCSE. No one seems to comment on the disparity.

Joebloggy

August 22, 2013
145 upvotes
/r/MensRights

EDIT: link didn't work

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23783094

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Post Information
Title Girls get 61% of A* marks at GCSE. No one seems to comment on the disparity.
Author

Joebloggy

Upvotes 145
Comments 53
Date August 22, 2013 7:54 PM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1kw8y3/girls_get_61_of_a_marks_at_gcse_no_one_seems_to/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/girls-get-61-of-a-marks-at-gcse-no-one-seems-to.1165692
https://theredarchive.com/post/1165692
Top posts by Joebloggy

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87 upvotes
May 8, 2014
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points37 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But they'd be up in arms if boys were even 5% above the girls.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And they never complain that their aren't enough female janitors either. Funny, isn't it?

[–]ostrakon 23 points24 points25 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Are we gonna wage-gap this one like the feminists do? I need more detailed data before I draw any conclusions.

[–]BeginnerSociologist 16 points17 points18 points 12 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

I'd recommend you read Christina Hoff Sommer's "The War Against Boys" which covers education quite well. While primarily aimed at the United States, her book brings up many relevant points for the UK.

In short, education isn't so good for boys right now.

Edit: Corrected the spelling of "United States." Also, this article was posted to r/mr a little while ago, which is on the topic.

[–]Revoran 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I like everything about your post except the title of the book. There's a fucking "war" on everything these days. A war on drugs. A war on poverty. A war on women. A war on terror. A war on boys.

Frankly I'm war-weary.

[–]ostrakon 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm aware of the issues surrounding boy's education; I'm just pointing out that the statistic that 60% of As are attained by girls isn't necessarily damning evidence of it. I'd like to see it broken down by subject, by biological age (as boys tend to enter school slightly later than girls), and other finer statistics to really delve into what this actually means instead of freaking out over a context-less statistic like feminists are wont to do.

For example, does an "achievement gap" mean an "intelligence gap"? Are girls are getting more As because they're legitimately more intelligent at that age, or is there a general bias in education when handing out subjective grades? Is it all subjects or do girls get better grades in either "soft" fields or "hard" ones? What if we stratify by female vs male teacher? Standardized test scores? Public vs Private? and so on.

(I'm aware that a lot of studies have been done elucidating much of the questions I asked above; my original comment was made to caution others not to take a faulty statistic and running with it.

[–]BeginnerSociologist 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well perhaps you shouldn't attach an accusation

Are we gonna wage-gap this one like the feminists do?

and I wouldn't feel the need to respond.

Ultimately the title of the post was that no one don't bring up this disparity, which is true. I keep up regularly with reports from both Ofsted (Office for Standards in Education) and the Nation Union of Teachers, neither of which I can remember making a big deal of this, at least in the last 5/6 years.

[–]KRosen333 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with you - why not be the change you want to see?

Get the numbers, make an infograph :)

Post it so we can see how it works out.

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]BeginnerSociologist 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Do you really feel the need to comment about such a small typo?

[+][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]BeginnerSociologist 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's going to take me ages to calm down! The injustice of it all!

[–]KRosen333 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do... Do you want us to execute him for his crime?

[–]BeginnerSociologist 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

N-No

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1kw8y3/girls_get_61_of_a_marks_at_gcse_no_one_seems_to/cbtdw9k

This post was down below, and it refers to last year (when apparently boys got more A/*s than girls). The subjects that girls are taking are, as you put further down, 'soft' subjects. They provide little in the way of university or job prospects (although they have to do college or sixth form before going to university, so they should be fine provided they take something more serious at A level). The fact that Welsh was up there suprises me, as Welsh will provide you with very little chances (most Welsh people speak English, in fact most Welsh people don't speak Welsh).

[–]tessie999 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In Wales it's compulsory. Same with Irish in the Irish leaving cert.

[–]CosmicKeys 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The great fallacy of feminism is that if we push girls "up" men will fall "down" into childcare roles. They'll keep pushing until women are equal to or greater than men in every aspect. Then maybe you'll get interest in boys issues.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you really think they'll stop there?

Even if they own everything, run everything and do everything, they'll still claim to be oppressed by men.

[–]ChunLiSBK 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But there's got to be some point when the victim card isn't so readily played. Wasn't Australia recently run by a female Prime Minister? Surely she wouldn't have been crying oppression?

No, wait...

[–]mikesteane 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure Julia Gillard can actually be said to have been running the country. Maybe running it down though.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Link?

[–]Joebloggy[S] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My mistake, edited

[–]nlakes 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

More guys enrolled in a particular program or guys get better grades = feminist lynch mob.

Opposite scenario. Deafening silence.

[–]hellsgrave 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Look at A level results, boys are about 0.5% better than girls

[–]MechPlasma 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

For A*-grades. But if you include A-grades too, they're actually slightly lower. But yes, compared to the GCSE's "70 percents to the educational dollar" (yes, that's how big the gap is) the A Level results really don't have a gender gap.

[–]hellsgrave -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes but its been proven repeatedly that girls do better at GCSE, and guys do better at A level, its all to do with how early we mature

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

What we need to know, is what girls are getting those A*s in. Although there may be a general issue to address, like the issue of the wage gap the figures need to be broken down to understand the full picture. If boys are gaining significantly more A*s in subjects like maths and science, whereas in the humanities (English, History, languages, geography) and art type subjects girls are out performing to such a degree it creates an overall different picture, then the fact that boys are on average across the board performing worse, might not be something too concerning (as the sciences tend to produce greater pay offs).

(NOTE: The italics are accidental, they are between two *s used to mark A stars).

[–]Ted8367 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The figures also showed a marked contrast in the type of subjects taken by boys and girls.

The subjects with the highest proportion of female entrants were - in order - performing arts, Welsh, sociology, art and design subjects and communication studies.

Those attracting the highest proportion of boys were computing, physics, other sciences, further mathematics and economics.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/08/16/a-level-results-2012-boys-overtake-girls-top-grades_n_1788593.html

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, although this is 2012, but it does prove a point that the figures are not as simple as when one first looks at them. As feminists often fail to look in depth at the results, we must lead the way and actually try and better understand them. Girls may have done better than boys this year, but if the trends are anything like last year, then girls have taken subjects with little further prospects.

[–]MechPlasma 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's true, if you're looking at how many people take each subject. If you're looking for how well each gender did on average, http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1kw8y3/girls_get_61_of_a_marks_at_gcse_no_one_seems_to/cbtqb5o

[–]GimmeSomeSugar 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

NOTE: The italics are accidental, they are between two *s used to mark A stars

You can use the \ as an escape character. So you would type '*' as '\*' in your comment.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, eddited as appropriate

[–]tessie999 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

To be completely awkward I got 5As in my double award iGCSE sciences (harder than gcse), english lit&lang and history. I got 3As in French, Maths (4 makrs of an A...another iGCSE) and Art.

It depends on the schooling mainly. I'm in a top all-girls school and while there is a disparity between girls' abilities in maths, most of us get A*s or As. No one got below a B this year.

[–]Joebloggy[S] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd hope no one thinks "If only girls got lower marks" because that's not at all the solution, and well done! I come from a top mixed school, and as far as I can tell, we all did about as well in our i/GCSE's as each other this year, controlling for subjects. I know exactly what you mean about schooling being the biggest influence, and I agree entirely. Additionally it's important to accept that the whole point of an exam is to differentiate students, not to give equal results. But I guess the question is about if the format and learning styles in the classroom are as effective for both genders, giving us all equal footing to achieve the mark we deserve. And I think the most worrying thing is the fact no one is talking about it- why don't people care? EDIT: This is, of course, in addition to the points made about subjects choices.

[–]tessie999 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well the GCSE exams are actually catered more towards boys by placing more emphasis on the one exam at the end as opposed to the coursework - the vice versa is where boys fail and girls do better. This is probably why boys have more difficulty in English - it has coursework in essays and controlled assessments while subjects such as maths are all about the one exam at the end.

Multiple choice questions or questions with a definitive answer also aid boys and more of this was bought into exams to try close the gaps in science (girls did better in the "Describe" questions). However these questions made the paper easier in a sense too which is where all the confusion is.

Like other users have said I think we need to look at it by subject. I don't think outruling coursework is altogether a very good idea as it encourages work throughout the year. I'm doing iGCSE science so I had no chemistry practicals but some have said the practical assessments are something boys are good at - I'm not sure on this one though (iGCSE is also not done in free public schools so boys in public schooling shouldn't face this difficulty).

I'm honestly not sure of a solution. I think single-sex schools should be more encouraged though for everyone - the studies that said boys falter in single-sex schools turned out to be a little foundless and there is apparently very little difference (whereas with girls there in evidence they do better in single-sex schools). This way the learning can be more appropriate and I have to say the stress of not having the opposite sex around was quite relaxing...

EDIT: Also here in the UK there have been articles about boys falling behind - there were last year and the year before. People were thrilled when the gap started closing two or three eyars ago but then it widened again.

[You also have to wonder if girls are making a gap now because suddenly they are encouraged to have careers and do well in school by their parents - while this teaching may have suited the boys before the girls are beniftting with a different attitude towards education, making the gap. However i have no sources or studies...this is merely speculation]

[–]MechPlasma 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

BREAKDOWN OF SUBJECTS BY GENDER:

http://www.jcq.org.uk/examination-results/gcses/gcse-and-entry-level-certificate-results-summer-2013

If we take it that "significantly better" means being 50% more likely to get an A or A*, then girls did significantly better in:

Art, Business, Citizen Studies, Construction, Design & Technology, Drama, Engineering, English, English Literature, Geography, Health & Social Science (Over 200% better), Home Economics, Hospitality, Leisure & Tourism, Media & Film, Preparation for Life and Work (dear god the UK has a lot of rubbish subjects), Religious Studies, Social Science, Welsh: both first and second, Welsh Literature, "All Other Subjects".

Boys did even slightly better in:

Maufacturing, Maths (but not Applied Maths), "Other Sciences" (by over 50%).

Summary: Girls did better in all but two major subjects, and are 40% more likely to get an A or A* than boys. There's no "They're not as good at science" anymore, they're just outperforming in everything! This is a widening gap since last year (which was wider than the year before), and I see it as a massive problem.

Although interestingly, the A-Level results doesn't have this gender gap. I'm not sure what to make of that.

[–]rightsbot 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If someone would take the time to access the metadata, it would be much appreciated.

[–]MechPlasma 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1kw8y3/girls_get_61_of_a_marks_at_gcse_no_one_seems_to/cbtqb5o

Bamf.

I am linking this pretty much everywhere now! I hope it doesn't count as spam. People just keep asking.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I remember at school (20 to 30 years ago) the girls always got better grades. Really, it because boys don't give a shit, while girls generally suck up to teachers and need validation.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Really, it because boys don't give a shit(...)

Isn't this a problem then? If pretty much all teachers are female, if the structure of education becomes feminized, if boys are diagnosed ADHD for just being active, aren't we then making it so it's not interesting for boys?

I think the entire education system is terribly outdated and it's curbing creativity, for both boys and girls.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 8 (I'm 35) - Pills, occupational therapy et. followed.

Funny thing, it was only the female teachers who seemed to have a problem with my "behaviour".

[–]MechPlasma 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The gender gap now has been widening each year for the last few years that I've checked. Either it's not because "boys don't care", or something has been making boys be progressively apathetic. Either way, it's a problem.

[+]XisanXbeforeitsakiss 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

exam results are the end product of how much effort people have put into their own education.

why would anyone care what difference there is in statistics?

[–]MechPlasma 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

exam results are the end product of how much effort people have put into their own education.

Three problems:

1: If there's sexism in the way teachers treat their students, that's going to have an effect on the students' education.

2: Boys and girls do think differently in academic subjects. It's an uncomfortable fact. If the subjects are heavily biased in favour of female brains, that's a problem.

3: Even if the other two aren't true, if boys are putting less effort into their own education, that's indicative of a problem right there. Especially since this is a gap that has been widening each year, so it's certainly not natural.

[+]XisanXbeforeitsakiss 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

gcse doesnt have subjects that are gender biased. im not familiar with any school subject that has gender bias at all.

[–]MechPlasma 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I... I don't get what you mean. They didn't go "Oh, women are sucking, let's change everything in their favour"*, but it could certainly be an effect of the ever-changing syllabus.

Well, except maybe in the beginning. I've heard they had to change things like the maths syllabus when women were first allowed to do it, because it wasn't working out for them. But I haven't been able to find a source about what it was like back then...

[+]XisanXbeforeitsakiss 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

everyone in class learns the same thing, fit the mold or fail the subject, thats what schooling is.

this 61% statistic, it means nothing.

[–]Goldie643 -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, why is this a big point?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

While the advancement of girls in education is a wonderful thing, it has been shown that boys themselves are falling behind. So the idea that "girls are doing 61% better" is troubling. Imagine if boys were doing 61% better than girls; people would come out to complain about that.

It's not a good thing when one gender is succeeding over the other when it comes to education. It's a good thing when both genders are excelling in education at the same rate, or as best it can. Boys right now need resources so that the gap doesn't widen.

[–]Goldie643 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the detailed response rather than just downvoting me :P It is pretty worrying theres no comment on the difference in grades whatsoever.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

People took your question as being dismissive of the issue. Even me actually.

[–]Goldie643 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah I can understand that.

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