Reddit, what do you think of females in combat roles in the Military having the same PT standards and males?

snoopyzanus · 2013-07-14T09:10:02+00:00

The heads of U.S. Special Operations Command said women will be welcomed into America’s elite combat units as long as they can meet the same physical standards as men.

This sounds fair, doesn't it? How could anyone object to that?

This would be great if it really happens.

If history is any indicator though, what will actually happen is that the claim that women will be held to the same physical standards will merely be the Trojan Horse that gets the gates opened and the horse brought inside, only for demands for lowered standards and special accommodations to be made soon after, under the pretense that the current standards are "outdated" (or whatever rationale can be spun best).

I'm not saying this because I don't want women to get in. It's the opposite. I wish they could. The problem is not ideological. The problem is biological and physical reality. The overwhelming majority of women don't have the strength and stamina needed to actually perform the job, especially when it comes to the elite combat units.

Just read the comments on the article, from people in the military.

uuuuu99999 · 2013-07-14T16:46:42+00:00

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/feminist-scavenger-hunt/

The feminist fantasy always runs the same way. A tough no nonsense woman tries to break in to an all male sphere. To prove herself she must first pass, no, exceed the ridiculous and unnecessarily high standards which men diabolically erected hundreds or even thousands of years ago in preparation for this very day. At first the 1 dimensional macho characters all mock and deride her. But eventually they come to learn that she is every bit as tough as the guys are, in addition to her extra abilities which she has by virtue of being a woman. Ultimately they can’t help but respect her determination and ability, and dare I say it, girl power. She’s “opened the door”, and now women eagerly flood into the previously all male sphere! Roll credits.

I’ll stop typing for a bit so the feminists in the audience can savor the moment… Smoke em if you got em.

Everyone back? Here’s the problem; most of the time it simply doesn’t work that way. At least, not for a long time it hasn’t. And quite often it is the feminists themselves who screw it up. They sell you GI Jane, where Demi Moore shaves her head and knocks out one armed pushups like they are going out of style. But that is just the picture on the package. What’s inside the box is something totally different. And women and men fall for it every time. The thing is the feminists don’t really care if they deliver as promised. In fact, so long as they can make the package with an impressive picture they don’t care if anything is inside it. So they sell you a woman aviation pioneer, just as good as the guys. What they deliver is a woman who is almost all attitude, and very little skill. Then they lose interest as soon as they can check the box and say “See, women do that too!”

isheepwebcast · 2013-07-14T07:49:25+00:00

As long as they do just as well as the men, I think it should be encouraged. There's no reason why women shouldn't have combat roles. This would be a big step forward for women, and we as MRAs should support this for being equal rights.

Zylo_001 · 2013-07-14T09:58:15+00:00

If they pass the same test as men (not an easier one and not the one that makes it easier for both sexes), then I say go for it girl. I don't support letting less able people men or women to go. We have enough military deaths as is. Let's give the people doing it the best chance of survival.

Hamakua · 2013-07-14T10:41:16+00:00

Women Firefighters: The Gender Boondoggle -8 Pages. If you have not read it, it is an invaluable read concerning female participation in physically strenuous fields. -A primer.

I have written many times over the years about women in the military. The interesting thing is, no matter what way you cut it, it ends up being "unfair" to men. Either from en evolutionary psychology point of view, an actual unequal work, risk because of fitness deficits, or the danger of lowering combat readiness standards. There are many more.

If a women ever doesn't want to go to war, all she needs to do is get pregnant. This is actually a major problem that isn't openly spoken about.
Women are physically weaker than men, in 99% of scenarios this is a straight disadvantage. The one rare place I deduced being a woman might be an advantage would be scubadiving - and only in extremely rare cases. This is because women consume less oxygen diving than men under rest and normal swimming conditions. Restrictions on physcial strength still persist.
"co ed" units will lead to men putting themselves, consciously or subconsciously in harms way to protect the women in the unit. No amount of training can completely erase 500,000+ years of evolution.
Women in the military would be an advantage when A. War is immediately necissary, and B. All but the very young and extremely old or infirm males are already serving or are dead.
Even all women platoons would put men at a disadvantage as leadership would conciously or subconciously apply the platoon to the "easy tasks". Further, physical strength and endurance realities lock male platoons into the harder and more dangerous jobs.
But there are plenty of non-physically intensive jobs in the rear "with the gear". "Stick the women into those positions!". This displaces men toward the front line. There could be an argument made that the lack of troops would temper the geopolitical decisions nations with an industrial war complex would make concerning one conflict or another. Having more troops overall and men at the front lines means "more wars possible".
Lowering physical requirements lowers survival chances involving anything to do with physical. -This includes flying jets, piloting submarines, setting up or packing up a rear echelon base camp on time.
Women dying, being raped, being tortured, despite Hollywood's suggestions, will be extremely demoralizing to soldiers in general. Men are indeed disposable, it's not right, but it's also partly programming.

Women in the military?

At this point I don't care one way or the other. I am not in the military.

4man · 2013-07-14T15:56:47+00:00

I know I'll be labeled a close minded misogynist but I don't care. I do not agree with it at all. As an member of the USMC infantry, I feel that it will degrade a units combat effectiveness and readiness. Full integration may be a lofty egalitarian issue, but the fact of the matter is that it should not be pursued for a multitude of reasons. First off, life in an infantry unit is a very hostile and unforgiving environment, not only a physical level but also on a psychological one. It's an extremely "macho" environment, and rightfully so. The things we are asked to do, on a daily basis, can never be fully understood by civilians, and furthermore are probably held in contempt by society. Hazing is a right of passage and a way of life here, the nature of which is both physical and mental. Derogatory remarks, physical punishment (things like push-ups, NOT beating or hitting) are things that are implemented to maintain discipline and good order. They are viewed as evil, but they are a necessary evil, because they prepare you for the challenges of actual combat. I know that having females thrown in that mix, would ultimately create more harm than good. From what I've witnessed, every time a female is around, it's like everyone is walking on eggshells, because no one wants to get reprimanded for sexual harassment, hurt feelings, etc. Human nature has shown that men will be more forgiving, gentle and respectable of females. So in that aspect, the level of overall aggressiveness, physical, and mental conditioning would be degraded. Which brings me to my second part, in Afghanistan we took FET (female engagement teams) out on patrol with us. Not only did it create seperate logistical issues, such as different hygene/restroom/sleeping facilities, but it all created an environment where we felt compelled to protect them. Every time we took them out, we doubled up on security, so we could egress instead of fighting the enemy. No one wants to see dead females on the news, so that's why the extra precautions were taken. Men dying has been a way of life in regards to war, once you throw women into the mix, that's when the waters get muddy and the public gets pissed. This is turning into a wall of txt so if anyone wants to ask questions, I urge you to. Or to call me a piece of shit, if you feel the need to. I'll leave you with this, trying to apply civil rights issues in a place where very little civility has precedence, is a recipe for disaster.

HappyGerbil88 · 2013-07-14T16:39:21+00:00

The key is equal standards. Right now, most women in the military aren't qualified to do basic tasks like reloading artillery rounds or carrying their half of a two-person stretcher. This is the case outside the military as well. When fire departments first started letting women in, Feminists protested the standards, arguing that it's sexist to treat women as equals. The result is that many female firefighters are incapable of doing basic work such as operating a fire hose, setting a ladder up, carrying an adult out of a window, or axing down a door. The only reason this isn't a problem is because the vast majority of firefighters are male, so they just take over and do the jobs women aren't qualified for. Same as the military, the men just pick up the slack. Instead of 5 people carrying 80lbs of gear, you have 4 men carry 90lbs and a woman carrying 40lbs.

Mediumtim · 2013-07-14T10:36:57+00:00

Some women have served admirably in combat roles, Tania Chernova being the most famous example.

I don't think it's realistic to say that the average woman will preform on par with the average man. But: if anybody regardless of gender can qualify, they should be eligible for service.

qemist · 2013-07-14T11:44:13+00:00

No, put women only in all combat roles to right historical injustice!

saint2e · 2013-07-14T13:14:51+00:00

This should always be the case, regardless of "elite unit" or not.

If you are not physically or mentally qualified to be in combat, you should not be in combat, feelings be damned.

Collective82 · 2013-07-14T16:28:34+00:00

You know that maxing a female pt test is about the same as a minimum for males passing right? I can't wait to see these new standards. Lol 9 year till I retire.

ENTP · 2013-07-15T00:16:51+00:00

So long as they meet the physical standards, I don't see a problem.

dungone · 2013-07-14T15:04:53+00:00

I'm looking forward to whatever mind-numbing rationalization feminists are going to come up with. Either the equal standards will be sexist or unfair somehow, or they'll be all about the equal standards but use it as an excuse to keep women out of the Selective Service, or they will wait until something gets invented that makes strength irrelevant and claim that happened prior to that was sexist against women.

avantvernacular · 2013-07-15T15:55:42+00:00

It is irresponsible for them to be held to a lower standard.

Always_Doubtful · 2013-07-17T03:40:37+00:00

Male soldiers aren't babysitters so if women enlist then they should be up to par with men in all areas. To lower the standards for women will be a national embarrassment and a slap in the face to the many men that died for their country.

Pecanpig · 2013-07-14T21:02:32+00:00

That's a paradoxal question. (not a real word, but I don't care). If women had the same standards as men then there would be no women in combat roles.

2013-07-15T13:31:22+00:00

I hear the women can't even throw a grenade far enough to not blow themselves up.

GIRL POWER!

Title	Reddit, what do you think of females in combat roles in the Military having the same PT standards and males?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	4
Comments	22
Date	July 14, 2013 6:52 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1i9js6/reddit_what_do_you_think_of_females_in_combat/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/reddit-what-do-you-think-of-females-in-combat.1168774 https://theredarchive.com/post/1168774

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