Don't take advice from failures

drallcom3 · 2014-05-11T22:37:14+00:00

If they have taken ownership of their failure and gained a new perspective through objective analysis, then it can be useful as a cautionary tale.

MachiavellianRed · 2014-05-11T23:01:35+00:00

Hierarchy of advice:

Someone who has failed at something and then succeeded at it later on: They know what it is to fail, what it is to succeed and how to turn failure into success, they have the most knowledge out of anybody, having to overcome the trials and tribulations of adversity to become a victor. EG: guy got divorced, then had a 25 year happy marriage.
Someone who has succeeded at something: They know what it takes to succeed, but have little understanding of failure so if you yourself have failures, they cannot educate you on fixing them, they can give those fresh to an area what it takes to win, but if you have already failed they can't tell you how to turn your life around in that area. These people are completely useless at helping you turn your life around, they've always had it good so they see things through a one-sided optimistic lens. EG: guy married high school sweetheart from marriage 1.0, married 50 years, knows nothing of heartbreak.
Someone who has failed at something and not learned to succeed at it: They have no value, they only know what it is to fail and they have no experience of success of any kind in the area in question, all their advice is "what they would do" if they could have another attempt at whatever it was they failed at, but that's all it is, an unproven guess. EG: guy who was never married or divorced multiple times.

JohnGalt316 · 2014-05-11T23:56:51+00:00

OP falls for the same logical fallacy he is warning against

you should be evaluating the evidence to judge a statement made

the author's previous failures or successes don't prove the validity of the statement

[deleted] · 2014-05-11T23:54:45+00:00

I respectfully disagree. Although I've had potential and a pretty solid circle of friends, I've never been much of a natural with women. I respect people like Roosh and others who have found ways to turn their lives around and become attractive to women and live the lives they want.

I rather learn from men who have elevated themselves from their struggles and can empathize with me, rather than someone who's never failed or walked the path. And folks are free to look through my history, and think they shouldn't take my advice because I'm still a work in progress. It's up to them. But that's just me.

Taking advice from naturals is like taking advice from Trust fund old money folks on how to make money. They have nothing to offer me as they've never been in my shoes.

[deleted] · 2014-05-11T22:58:14+00:00

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Archwinger · 2014-05-12T00:40:35+00:00

I married well before The Red Pill existed, but hope very strongly that other men can learn from both the high points and the flaws of my marriage, and maybe even that my perspective might be useful to other guys in mediocre marriages hoping to turn things around at least a little bit.

A lot of blue pill examples get posted here because there's a lot to learn from failures. We see a little bit of ourselves in every loser blue pill example guy's story.

[deleted] · 2014-05-13T10:55:34+00:00

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Bible_Black · 2014-05-12T00:44:02+00:00

You have to be prepared to take the loss. If you pick up some advice on here and, after implementing it, everything backfires on you, you haven't really lost anything. What you have in fact gained is invaluable knowledge gathered from your own experimentation. Which is what you should be doing. Testing the veracity of what is discussed here for yourself.

Lets face it, nobody is on TRP because everything they've done so far has worked out in their favour. They're here because they are ready to try a different technique and evaluate the results for themselves. Because there's something missing that they just aren't getting yet.

One final thing; people don't get girlfriends or wives without having attractive qualities. There's a reason they were in a position to fail in the first place. Over the course of a relationship they might have become beaten (beta-en?) down but they can be polished right back up again once they realise what it was that made them so desirable in the first place.

I harbour the same skepticism that you do, however. Like, whenever I hear about a guy on his third wife I just think... jeez, you think you oughta keep marrying broads when it always goes to shit for you?

pinklepaws · 2014-05-12T01:00:40+00:00

A large component of success is luck and talent. Talent, by definition, is some skill or faculty that we don't know how to explain.

So I think the best person to listen to is somebody who has hit rock bottom and then built himself up from scratch.

e.g. an obese person who lost the weight five years ago is a better guide than somebody who has been thin all his life.

But, regardless of who you listen to, listen critically. The beauty of good explanations is that their truth value doesn't depend on the source.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T11:50:21+00:00

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[deleted] · 2014-05-12T04:47:48+00:00

Disclosure: Slowly digested the pill over the course of marriage and only fully accepted post-Divorce.

Success teaches us nothing useful. In fact, the entire premise of TRP is that Blue Pill thinking fails to make us better and to win and keep women.

Put another way, who is better to get advice on picking up women from? The 6'4" naturally good looking dude, or the expert-PUA? The PUA got where he was by failing, learning, failing some more and then succeeding.

Yes, sometimes the advice here is from angry/disaffected dudes. Like all advice, consider the adviser.

TL;DR: You only learn from failing. Every "overnight success" has had years of being completely unremarkable.

ImALoneWolfBaby · 2014-05-12T02:08:54+00:00

a quote I try to live by.."Do not associate with people who live a life you do not want...instead associate with those who have succeeded and conquered the life and goals you thrive for"

iseeyou1312 · 2014-05-12T05:29:37+00:00

The easiest way to learn is from other people's mistakes. Signing away all your rights and freedoms into a polygamous contract containing also your wife and the government is one of the worst decisions a person can make.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T05:34:15+00:00

Take advice from everyone. Then learn that people are full of shit but they might be right. Finally learn that people that aren't full of shit might be wrong. Sooner or later you will be able to differentiate good and bad advice. Why do I say this? Because there is no correlation between the two. I have heard some of the best advice from failures and some of the worst advice from successful people. At the end of the day the best advice caters to you and how far you can step. The only person capable of giving you that advice is yourself. The only way to know the distance is by measuring the good and the bad.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T06:09:05+00:00

It depends. You generally don't want to take anyone's advice without rigorously analyzing it first whether they were successful or not. For example, a lot of bodybuilders and fitness models who have reached what I would call "success" in their industry say the most retarded things and give advice that is just silly for a newbie.

Studying success AND failure is important. A lot of people don't understand how easy it is to fail, and how failure is the default unless you really play the game right. It's infinitely easier to fail as a business owner than to succeed. Infinitely easier to give up and get bitter about how game and clubs work than it is to become the guy pulling ass regardless of the circumstances. The default is FAILURE, success must be earned. So it is important to at least learn that lesson. You need to understand how failure works, why people fail, how it is a cycle, how you can get trapped in it for your whole life, etc, because that is how you can make sure it doesn't happen to you.

I remember when I was in college I was fucking this girl and her phone kept ringing. I remember after sex she takes it out, talks to her BF, puts it away, then tries to "snuggle in" with me. I look over there's like 9 missed texts too. I asked her about her BF and it turns out, he was in one of my courses. I developed this perverse obsession with him, like how can someone who is smart enough to get into this school wind up as such a pathetic cuckold? From him I learned every beta buck behavior that one must eliminate... and this was maybe 3-4 years before TRP or AF/BB existed.

I would recommend people make the switch from "taking advice" to LEARNING. FUCK advice, I do not take advice, I do not ask for advice. But I do want to learn. If I was friends with Ronnie Coleman, I wouldn't want his advice about whether I should do high volume, Tom Platz style routines or high intensity Mark Mentzer style routines. I would just want to learn from hanging out and observing him. Learn from his dedication and self-motivation, learn about how the industry works, learn about different diets, nutrition, drugs, etc.

Likewise, I never ask any sort of questions, like "give me some advice, here is my situation, I need to know how to get more money!" But if you are successful in an industry I am interested in, I would love to learn and aggregate some info from you, which I can then process for myself. If you regularly fuck hotter girls than me, I don't actually want advice on how I can fuck those 10s. I would prefer to learn about your journey, how you scaled up your SMV and leveraged it, so I can do the mental work of figuring out how to incorporate than info into my plan. The difference is "advice" is asking someone to think for you, whereas learning is you doing the mental work of collecting information and making something out of that information.

On the whole I agree with your point, I'm just adding that even if I am a success, you don't necessarily want my advice.

czabak · 2014-05-12T10:34:22+00:00

Take advice from failures, who became successes after they failed.

vengefully_yours · 2014-05-12T04:16:20+00:00

Divorced twice and I will give you the best advice.

Never marry.

greycloud24 · 2014-05-11T22:26:33+00:00

this is the best advise i have seen on red pill. want the best advise on life for absolutely free, AND have someone eager to share it with you? just go visit a local retirement home and talk to someone who has been happily married for a very long time.

textualintercourse · 2014-05-11T23:58:02+00:00

I get what's being said, but guess what, Michael Jordan even had a mentors and coaches. There are those who are 100% capable of leading by example, but then there are others who are fantastic strategists and knowledgeable, yet in exact practice for myriad of whatever reasons step into the game and aren't able to implement whatever they know.

gimmieareason · 2014-05-12T01:31:48+00:00

Did you post this because of that guy earlier who was giving advice, even though he had been divorced like 3 times? And he was 47 years old?

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T03:03:12+00:00

I think it is especially hard with parents too, because you get so much advice from them as a little kid, whether positive or negative. The reality is that your parents are just probably two relatively clueless people coming together who slammed genitals repeatedly. And as Victor Pride said, unless your parents are self-made millionaires, they probably know very little about finance and money.

The sad reality to me is that the redpill is not just the older brother I never had, but it's more like all of the training I needed from a father figure or role model. You need to learn things about skills(Whether redpill or not), learn about why college isn't a great deal, learn about making a business, learning a new language, coding, exercising, dieting, how to be successful, how to handle, talk to, and relate to women and men efficiently. Most feminized bluepill fathers have left their sons(and daughters too) woefully under-prepared. Mothers have a great share of the blame too, but I think it's more typical for sons to look up to fathers.

I agree with your points though, emulate, learn from, and talk to the winners of society. Even if it means losing friends, being disconnected from family, it's still so much more satisfying.

MockingDead · 2014-05-12T03:50:37+00:00

Why not take both and decide which is better?

lagspike · 2014-05-12T04:03:32+00:00

hindsight may be 20/20, but that perspective can still be useful for a person about to be in the same position they were in (ie: marriage).

so people dont make the same mistakes they did, or advice so people make wiser decisions.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T05:53:23+00:00

That's kind of foolish. Although partly right, just because someone is a failure or has previously failed doesn't automatically make what hes saying wrong.

maxmangel · 2014-05-12T10:32:35+00:00

Well...I know several people in long term relationships with someone that I'd rather gnaw my own arm off to not wake up, if I woke up in bed beside them. So...like, just because you're hittin something doesn't mean I want a slice of your pie. Check mate.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T11:58:46+00:00

Reason 1 why I left Seddit. People would make threads giving advice, and then I'd stalk their history and they'd be virgins.

Beardsman2 · 2014-05-12T12:10:24+00:00

100% agree with OP. This needed to be said.

There are a lot of bitter, divorced blokes who lived totally blue pill marriages telling people how bad marriage is and was for them, and basically telling everyone that can hear: never get married. And that's fine, but we're already here, we're already red pill so that experience just tells us: don't be a blue pill faggot husband. It's a good warning not to be a bitch, but it doesn't tell us much about how to succeed.

I pay a lot more attention to the people who have thus far succeeded like Dalrock and Ironwood.

DarkJedi690 · 2014-05-12T13:16:36+00:00

Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?

Ehdwyn · 2014-05-12T15:56:17+00:00

I love that you still managed to work in a bench press reference. God bless this guido gathering.

Johnny10toes · 2014-05-12T15:56:41+00:00

There is no one that I can't learn something from.

kfloppygang · 2014-05-12T16:36:25+00:00

You are what you surround yourself with.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T23:38:29+00:00

Luck, genetics, mental health should never be underestimated. I've seen losers follow the correct advice to the letter and still fail spectacularly.

Good advice is good advice, no matter who speaks it. Failure is not a wise metric for judging if something works. What did not work for them just may work for you.

Also nothing teaches life lessons like failure.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T23:40:56+00:00

The best way to win is to just win with little effort. Taking advice from natural winners is terrible advice. They just got what they wanted. This is why there are so many dumb rich people.

PlusGoody · 2014-05-11T22:55:29+00:00

We know why women buy the advice books written buy women who are multiple-times losers: they don't want to deal with the truth, which is that high-quality men have zero interest in a feminist / egalitarian marriage, and are interested in women who are, and stay, physically attractive and whose primary goal is the happiness and success of the family unit.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T02:11:15+00:00

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Title	Don't take advice from failures
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	136
Comments	97
Date	May 11, 2014 10:09 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/25b78x/dont_take_advice_from_failures/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/dont-take-advice-from-failures.15293 https://theredarchive.com/post/15293

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