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Men Are the Expendable Gender — TV Tropes

KKirdan

August 6, 2025
214 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

A Double Standard in media whereby women automatically have the audience's sympathy and men don't. Comes in large part from the need in all sorts of media for Mooks whose suffering and death we won't lose much sleep over.

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Post Information
Title Men Are the Expendable Gender — TV Tropes
Author

KKirdan

Upvotes 214
Comments 26
Date August 6, 2025 5:06 AM UTC
(11 months ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1mivvfw/men_are_the_expendable_gender_tv_tropes/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/men-are-the-expendable-gender-tv-tropes.1558989
https://theredarchive.com/post/1558989
Red Pill terms in post
double standards
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Comments

[–]ArmchairDesease 68 points69 points70 points 11 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I always say: if we’re serious about equal representation of women in film, there’s still one role that remains completely untouched, still 100% male-dominated.

The goon.

You know the type: those nameless, dumb henchmen guarding the villain’s lair. The ones who get mowed down by the hero in ridiculous ways, without a second thought.

To date, I don't think I've ever seen a female one. I wonder why.

[–]sakura_dropleft-wing male advocate 19 points20 points21 points 11 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually wrote a comment about this a couple of months ago on the Buffy the Vampire Slayer sub - it was a thread about how most of the vampires who appeared on the show in the 'goon' role (randos who'd be slain on routine graveyard patrols) were male, even though male vampires are typically shown preying on female victims etc. One point that came up was that there are likely more male stunt performers, especially back in the 90s, which would account for such imbalances, but although I agree that's probably true to a degree it doesn't hold water as a total explanation:

I don't doubt there were/are however it's also true that other shows (and movies) on at the same time regularly (or at least semi) featured group action sequences with multiple female stunt performers, such as WMAC Masters (which Sophia Crawford starred in), Xena: Warrior Princess - particularly the episodes featuring the Amazons - and Mortal Kombat: Conquest.

Stuntwomen typically only get hired to double for the lead or co-starring actress(es), as opposed to simply appearing in their own roles to speak, let alone in number; the hired goon, mook, etc. for the villain, or part of a team of cops or soldiers or fighters... Think of all the action movies and shows with big group fights where the hero takes on swathes of enemies, almost always men - and therefore think how many stuntmen are getting regular work by comparison. Who's to say the big bad couldn't hire a squad of ninja chicks or whatever to defend their compound or act as bodyguards or stall the hero? But then you run into the issue of "we can't have John Wick or Batman beating up a load of women" and complaints of it glorifying violence against women (beating, maiming, and killing men en masse is fine, though) regardless of context, and the likelihood that the various stuntwomen in the industry would almost certainly appreciate the work. Having a female protagonist doesn't make a difference either, because they also tend to feature the exact same dynamic - the upcoming Ballerina spin-off from John Wick being the latest example.

The only notable instances of the opposite that come to mind would be a couple of the DCEU films featuring the Amazons from Wonder Woman's island (Wonder Woman 1 & 2 and Justice League) and the Black Widow solo movie, but that's it. It's a bit of a Catch 22 situation that isn't well addressed, if at all, despite continued cries for more women in action roles.

Of course the context of this comment was a little different to what we're discussing in this thread but I think it's relevant all the same. As I noted it's sort of ironic in that it's effectively doing stuntwomen out of work they'd more than likely be grateful for.

You'll find a bit more variety in Asian action cinema where they're generally less precious about showing women receiving equal treatmen in fights and action sequences, regardless of who's battling them.

[–]Blazerhawk 29 points30 points31 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Ballerina (the John Wick spinoff) had a few. Of course, this was offset by throwing them up against a female protagonist. I say offset because quite often a female protagonist is allowed to fight both women and men, while a male protagonist often only fights men.

You are of course right that the mooks are often 100% men. In the rare case of that a woman is a mook, it is often remarked on (Deadpool's "Is it sexist" joke) or she is an elite mook. I think the closest I've ever seen to an unremarkable female mook was the violinist in John Wick 2. She didn't get much more setup, no comments were made about her, and she doesn't take any longer to dispatch.

[–]ArmchairDesease 3 points4 points5 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for bringing in more context. I didn't watch any John Wick's sequel, so I wasn't aware.

Generalizing, I see the broad pattern of: disposable faceless character who dies randomly and possibly entertainingly -> male. This goes for all sorts of action/adventure/fantasy movies. But maybe that's loosening a bit.

[–]Definitelynotabot777 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

John Wick also had a Super Goon/side boss who was a mute woman so it was breaking the mold kinda?
Edit: yeeee reading is not my strong point

[–]SchalaZeal01left-wing male advocate 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

in FFX-2, there's goons and goonettes in the gang of that weird treasure hunter woman. They all wear sorta veils hiding their faces (both men and women), making them literally faceless mooks.

[–]Evening_Crazy1579 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That woman mutilated by Beatrix Kiddo. Savage

[–]BurstSwag 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I saw Heads of State movie recently, and there were female goons, especially in the starting sequence.

[–]ChimpPimp20 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They exist. They're just not common. The last ones I personally saw in a show was the Punisher. For movies...idk. For games it was the recent Spider-Man IP.

[–]AleksandrNevskyleft-wing male advocate 54 points55 points56 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You should see the rest of the tropes that cover things like this. The double standards tropes have some relevant ones.

[–]Draggonzz 31 points32 points33 points 11 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

TV Tropes is a fascinating site in general. I can lose myself there for hours.

[–]AigisxLabrys 7 points8 points9 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Me too.

[–]Mysterious-Zone-334 8 points9 points10 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I honestly love TV Tropes as a website as it gives me a base for my writing as the tropes I wanna use and ways to subvert them

[–]XanTheLastManleft-wing male advocate 2 points3 points4 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeap. I love TV Tropes.

[–]Neveah_Hope_Dreams 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same!!!

I love TV Tropes! It's become one of my favourite websites and the best site for searching up films and other media. I go there to find out about certain stories or just be entertained.

Absolutely obsessed!

[–]ManWithTwoShadows 27 points28 points29 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Check out this trope: The Unfair Sex.

[–]HeftyEggplant7759 10 points11 points12 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Surprisingly candid for a large, popular website

[–]rump_truck 39 points40 points41 points 11 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

In general I find that TV Tropes is pretty fair regarding gender. I think it's because they're strictly based around observing patterns, not around any sort of advocacy or change. So in a way, they don't have any skin in the game, and they don't have any reason to skew things.

[–]SpicyMarshmellow 29 points30 points31 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And they collect examples. Hard evidence of the trope.

[–]XanTheLastManleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Yes, but my feelings, though..."

[–]Langland88 21 points22 points23 points 11 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Fascinating read. As I was reading this, I feel Anime is one of the few medias that can potentially go against these tropes. Of course the difference is that Anime is from Japan, which is a country in the East therefore making it Eastern media. A lot of these tropes tend to apply to media from the West i.e. Europe and North America.

[–]The-Author 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Can I ask why you think anime is one of the few media that can go against these tropes? They seem to play a lot of them straight for the most part.

[–]Langland88 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because there are some animes that also have defied those tropes as well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anime is asian stuff. Asian stuff usually isn't too gendered and. For example, both men are women work extremely hard so that they eventually jump off an apartment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

in the new venom film, the two women survived without a scratch on them. However, all the male soldiers died so uh... IIRC, there are no females who died in the film.

[–]Neveah_Hope_Dreams 0 points1 point2 points 3 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I love TV Tropes. It's a place I go onto to learn more about particular films I'm thinking of seeing or just for pure entertainment. And I am so glad that they acknowledge misandry and sexist double standards against men.

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