Ex PUA/Red Pill guys — why do you think it’s toxic?

KingKunta2-D · 2025-10-01T03:43:56+00:00

It's toxic because it's teaching virgin guys to treat dating like an antagonistic strategy game. Like you have to move better than the other person if you want to win etc etc. All that's going to do is attract the wrong people and make you more and more lonely in the long run because you can't trust a woman. I'm literally going through those trust issues right now 5 years out of the red pill space.

Any people who do self-grooming content or things of that nature. I don't consider red pill until they start dabbling in politics. Self grooming and confidence content is harmless

becomesharp · 2025-10-01T04:33:14+00:00

I assume you meant Mark Manson and not Charles Manson lol.

I think both communities have toxic elements to them, but they are fundamentally different. Pickup was (originally) a group of lonely, desperate men who were trying to crack the code of how to meet women and not be lonely.

But they were trying to do it at least partially in an ethical way. This is why the motto of the time (circa 2003-2007) was "leave her better than you found her." We were trying to get better at dating but never at the expense of taking something from the woman or harming her.

The pick up guys were also mostly self-critical and blamed themselves for their shortcomings rather than blamed women for it. In that era when you had a date or an appraoch that didn't go well, you were told, "its always your fault." Meaning, dont blame other people and certainly not women for your failed date or approach. Look inward and figure out what you did wrong and fix it.

Granted, these messages lost traction in the 2010s and eventually disappeared almost entirely, but I think a lot of that is due to red pill taking over.

Pick up wasn't so much toxic as it was sad and cringey, especially for it's time. Were there toxic people involved sometimes? Sure, but the central ideologies weren't generally toxic (for the most part).

But Red pill is different.

Red pill isnt the lonely desperate guy trying to figure out dating.

Red pill is the lonely, desperate, MISOGYNISTIC GUY WHO BLAMES WOMEN AND WANTS TO GET BACK AT THEM.

That is a wildly different animal and, I would argue, much more dangerous.

Because these are the men who are angry, bitter, and (often) think that its okay to harbor resentment towards women for their own shortcomings.

And I think that's the most toxic element with red pill. It's the ideology that women are your enemy, theyre the reason you are lonely and sad, and you must do whatever necessary to punish them for it or take advantage.

xvszero · 2025-10-01T01:17:35+00:00

I don't think it is toxic, it is toxic.

theworsethebetter99 · 2025-10-01T04:10:22+00:00

The ideology of the red pill makes you slowly change yourself to fit the idea of what a man should be. Not the idea of what society thinks a man should be but of what red pillers think a man should be. You lie to others and lie to yourself. You betray yourself for the sake of strangers on the internet.

It makes you see the world in a sociopathic way. Every interaction is like combat. Everything is quid pro quo.

Makes even good men into abusers as they are convinced they must abuse their partners so they don't leave them.

It has simplistic and unrealistic explanations for how the world works. Conspiracy theories are common because they are simple and easy to explain. The real world is never simple enough to be explained by a conspiracy theory.

They are all obsessed with getting approval from women. And other unnecessary things. Makes you see women as some other species rather than just people like yourself.

That community is also judgmental, pessimistic, and cruel.

hjras · 2025-10-01T15:09:01+00:00

basically this

theasianplayboy · 2025-10-01T22:32:36+00:00

Pickup can be toxic, but in and of itself not intrinsically toxic. Like martial arts could be used for good or bad, it’s just codifying dating behaviors that happen naturally in the wild so the average guy can learn himself.

But the Red Pill and Manosphere generally has a very big strain of racism which I would label as toxic, being an Asian man myself.

They may want a “return to traditions” but that includes a social hierarchy where white men are at the top and other races are at the bottom.

AstronomerOver2800 · 2025-10-03T21:28:48+00:00

I was very active in the PUA communities before 2010, and I will fully defend some of those forums. For me, it felt like receiving lifelong advice from a father figure. Let me explain: I stayed on those forums long enough to witness their transformation into something else entirely—focused on shortcuts, sexual “recipes,” and manipulative techniques.

The good part: Most of the information I found genuinely useful was about basic self-improvement and manners, such as: • How to dress well, match shoes with belts, find clothes that fit properly, and even locate a good tailor. • Date ideas—one member compiled over 500 suggestions, with plenty of restaurant and activity recommendations. • Good manners and etiquette, like table etiquette or when to drink red vs. white wine. • Fitness advice. • Hobbies and personal development. • Travel tips and destinations. • Clubbing and nightlife guidance, even practical things like buying condoms and learning about STDs. • Dating basics: planning dates, inviting someone over, keeping your place clean, grooming tips, skincare routines (SPF, washing your face), and general self-care.

When it came to dating advice, the quality was mixed. Much of it was influenced by The Game by Neil Strauss or material from David DeAngelo. At the end of the day, the conversations often boiled down to simple teenage-level questions like “Does she like me or not?” I never saw those spaces as misogynistic. Many guys genuinely wanted long-term relationships, and some were already in them or married. For a 15-year-old me, the advice was far from perfect, but it was more than acceptable and very helpful.

The bad part: Things started to decline around 2014–2015, after the forum was sold to a self-help guru. Over time, the content became diluted with “10 lines to open a conversation,” gimmicky acronyms like IOI, and other forced-sounding techniques. By 2016, the forum had shut down entirely, with the guru pivoting to newsletters and selling overpriced bootcamps full of manipulative tactics—like creating fake female accounts to comment on your photos. The whole thing felt cheap and try-hard.

I’m not a fan of the post-2015 advice, but I also don’t hold resentment toward those communities.

One last note: back then, there was little to no focus on side hustles, grinding, or making money. It was almost entirely about lifestyle, self-improvement, and dating.

Frosty_Coffee6564 · 2025-10-01T03:18:50+00:00

Robert Greene redpill? I’d say ‘dark psychology influencer’, maybe, as I don’t hear him talk much about dating.

Actual_Cancer_ · 2025-10-01T19:50:45+00:00

I was into it when I was much younger. Honestly it made me weird and poisoned my perception. Being normal/reliable is a far better strategy. Also, many like to make it look like no woman is loyal to keep you insecure.

My advice to PUA/Redpill/RSD bros:

Be happy with “just friends” with women. They are great match-makers and if they like you, they’ll do their best to set you up. It’s not what happened with me, but I’ve seen it happen many times.

I am (more) normal, happier, and more secure now than I was then. I also have an incredible relationship and I’ll be getting engaged soon.

When you’re out for a while, you’ll cringe at this period of your life.

Title	Ex PUA/Red Pill guys — why do you think it’s toxic?
Author	Outside-Quarter-2866
Upvotes	6
Comments	12
Date	October 1, 2025 1:00 AM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1nuun2i/ex_puared_pill_guys_why_do_you_think_its_toxic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/ex-puared-pill-guys-why-do-you-think-its-toxic.1563193 https://theredarchive.com/post/1563193

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