Time for CAFE to change the menu

AlphaWookie · 2014-07-02T21:08:54+00:00

I'll be the one to start this. It is not a time to be divisive and I do not like this article. I wish CAFE all the luck in the world and Paul shame on you. Baby and bath water and all that jazz. Fuck the infighting Paul because the confrence would not have happened without the broader MRA's money and support as well. So knock it off this is a big tent.

Marcruise · 2014-07-02T22:24:02+00:00

Oh fuck off Paul. What CAFE means is that it would be nice if you didn't say utterly retarded shit about women 'begging' to get raped, and saying that fucking feminists' shit up gives you an erection.

You embarrass us, you twat.

iwasnotshadowbanned · 2014-07-02T23:21:12+00:00

Splitting the movement is a baaaaad idea. Now is the time to find common ground and work together, not attack each other based on minutia.

IS44 · 2014-07-02T21:35:20+00:00

I'm sorry, but... what the hell?

WodensEye · 2014-07-03T01:58:46+00:00

For the record, I have already written a response, but I am going to speak with Paul tomorrow first. Paul is entitled to his opinion. I will post it here when I post it to my blog / AVFM comments.

rg57 · 2014-07-03T03:10:08+00:00

I'll withhold my judgment on AVFM and CAFE until I see more content from each. But what I've seen of CAFE so far has been wonderful. What I've seen from AVFM so far has been worrying. Again, I need to see more from each, but the clips I've seen from the conference are not exactly up to the standards of other conferences on serious topics. The aim is NOT to be like feminists, but for men. The goal is to actually be credible, and win on the evidence, which is there if only someone would bring it to the conference. (edited a few words out)

DavidByron2 · 2014-07-02T21:40:33+00:00

People who like to play at "moderate" love to stab anyone else in the back to show their "moderate" credentials. That's not particularly an MRA thing. It's shitty, sure, but it's also kinda part of the job of AFVM to take that shit. And from what I understand they usually do just that.

Prefer_Not_To_Say · 2014-07-03T02:22:51+00:00

This needs to fizzle out and quickly. Unfortunately, I don't think Paul Elam's ego is capable of admitting when he's wrong and when to avoid making stupid decisions.

Elam needs to keep his petty grievances to himself instead of airing his dirty laundry in public. Because of Adam McPhee saying, "we need to kick out the extremists on both sides", Elam argues, "CAFE is being too reasonable! Stop supporting them!"?

AVFM has its place in the men's rights movement but nobody, least of all Elam, should believe that it's the entire men's rights movement. The majority of people in the MRM are mature and responsible enough to accept the fact that there are extremists in every movement. We don't support them and denounce them for their intolerant viewpoints whenever they show up. It's one of the qualities of the movement that I'm very proud of. If Elam is saying we shouldn't do that, well ... he can go back to being a truck driver for all I care and bitch about moderate MRAs to whoever will listen when he's filling up on gas.

... No offence to any truckers ...

Samurai007_ · 2014-07-03T02:26:04+00:00

Not all politicians are the same. For instance, Barry Goldwater said, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

There will always be some in a movement that would rather be liked and accepted than make the hard choices and take a moral stand and risk offending someone. The irony is that your opponents probably hate you already, and your play at moderation is more likely to ruin any remaining respect they have for you than it is to engender camaraderie and friendship from those who oppose what you claim to support.

If you are going to invite a controversial speaker to a campus, get security. If feminists try to disrupt it, escort them out (and certainly don't let them bring drums and a vuvuzela into the room!) Don't halt the speech after just a few minutes of disruption, people came to hear her speak, not to watch her be run off by feminist activists as they scored a win for censorship. Stand strong in defense of what you believe in and don't retreat or surrender! I hope no one joined the MRM to win a popularity contest or make friendships with feminists who hate you and all you believe in...

So forget trying to join Pride parades.

Forget trying to appease feminists by backstabbing allies.

Forget about trying to be liked by feminists by putting on a moderate face.

Say what you mean and mean what you say, don't back down if you've organized an event because that only encourages future disruptions by feminists since it worked before.

If you disagree with some who you feel are "extreme", try talking to them, asking them about their beliefs or words, and seeing if you can find common ground or ask them to tone it down a bit. This may or may not work, and no group is perfect or agrees 100%.

rogerwatersbitch · 2014-07-03T03:34:15+00:00

Right, because dividing is what we really need right now. Honestly, AVfM has been too reactionary in the past.I stand behind alot of things theyve said, but Im embarrased by others (though their strongest arguments still pale in comparison to other works published by feminists) . I get that feminists piss you off. They piss me off too, but the movement has to be more than just a pissing contest between the two.

Methodius_ · 2014-07-03T06:21:31+00:00

I'm pretty sure the CAFE rep meant exactly what he said, but Elam is taking it the way he wants to.

There are MRAs out there (or at least, people who claim to be MRAs) who basically want feminism to completely die out, who blame absolutely everything on women and feminism. Just like there are radfems (albeit more of them, since feminism as a movement is bigger) who want to "kill all men" and shit.

The CAFE rep was saying that we need to get rid of BOTH of those groups in order for the two movements to try and get things done. And frankly, he's right.

pocketknifeMT · 2014-07-04T16:11:29+00:00

So Elam decides throwing stones is a good idea, despite himself being the only one in a glass house.

That's gonna go well for him.

hereisyourpaper · 2014-07-03T00:18:29+00:00

So the complaint here is that CAFE allowed one of scheduled lectures get cancelled because of some bullies and that they don't want radicals in feminism or the MRM?

If CAFE is deliberately trying to distance itself from AVoiceForMen.com then that is something we can talk about, but this article didn't really convince me that CAFE really needs to change the menu. Perhaps the author just thought up an awesome pun and wanted to use it?

Title	Time for CAFE to change the menu
Author	MattClark0994
Upvotes	7
Comments	19
Date	July 2, 2014 8:45 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/29ojzq/time-for-cafe-to-change-the-menu/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/time-for-cafe-to-change-the-menu.1618925 https://theredarchive.com/post/1618925

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