MGTOW Is Not A Healthy Long-term Solution

otiswild · 2014-09-02T04:06:10+00:00

Modern westernized women are poison.

They're a drain, a massive pain in the ass.

So much work, so much risk, so little reward.

Y'all can keep 'em. I'd rather have my money, my time, my toys, and my sanity.

trafalgar112 · 2014-09-02T04:21:31+00:00

What is the best solution then? Here are your valid options:

A)hookup with women and get shit tested until you die. (pussy gets boring after a few weeks and you aren't accomplishing anything besides social status.)

B)You get married and get shit tested to early death or divorce raped.(Divorce is more likely.)

C)Have a child who if male will be a disposable tool. Either way expect to be looked at as an ATM machine.

D) go your own way.

hideall1 · 2014-09-02T03:59:56+00:00

I'll throw this into the mix for what it's worth. I consider myself a MGTOW because I am a Buddhist. The first 26 years of my life was spent growing up, going to school, getting a job during my last two years of high school, going to college, graduating with a Bachelors in Electrical and Computer Engineering, going for a Masters in the same, dropping out and sorting out my life and my new diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. I worked a full-time job for about a year, then had an episode and went on disability. I have had a total of four girlfriends each for a duration of one to two years. I've had two sexual flings.

Honestly, I can say that I just don't enjoy sex. It's not something that I strive for. I've done it, and it was meh. Instead, I'm devoting myself to Buddhism and try to live like a monk. Now, this is living at home with my mother since I don't have enough to support myself. Honestly, I'd be homeless and live out of my car, but my mother wouldn't allow something like that. Plus, I enjoy living at home with her.

I'm not sure where that puts me. My aspirations are striving for enlightenment. I meditate a lot throughout the day. I feel like this is the highest thing that one can do, become a Buddha. So again, I'm not sure where that puts me on your list, but that is what I'm going to do.

johnmars3 · 2014-09-02T04:21:01+00:00

I respectfully disagree with you.

The day that you just don't care about women is the day you are truly free.

MGTOW is not about giving up, it is about embracing a happy life without females and their accompanying shit.

newguy75 · 2014-09-02T04:38:07+00:00

Two and a half c-notes or less will get the best thing a hot 10 can offer her boyfriend. Easy as that.

Rougepellet · 2014-09-02T04:22:01+00:00

I always thought of MGTOW as just not putting that much time into women. Sure you'll still have sex, but you probably won't be in LTRs or get married. At the most you'll have plates but it'll be purely sexual. That way you spend less time on woman and can focus on more important things. Unless you really want to start a family. Correct me if i'm wrong

NikolaTeslaMGTOW · 2014-09-02T07:42:26+00:00

What the fuck are you talking about.......

No one on red pill will tell you that women are needed for happiness, if anything women are something that CAN enhance happiness if done right. MGTOW choosing not to deal with women at all not only is good for other men (supply demand) but good to destroy feminism.

Why put up with women's bullshit? LTR and marriage aren't worth it to many TRP men anyway, so why is it so bad to pay for sex, spin plates, or avoid women altogether?

MGTOW is not giving up, its saying "fuck you" to the society that hates men and the women who view us as ATMs and toy soldiers.

I know I have MGTOW in my name but I am not 100% sure about it, or about any of my ideas. I think I want to spin plates when is suits me, and do w/e the fuck I want when it suits me. I don't let anyone tell me what to do, I don't give a fuck about society, women, men, or any institution has to say. Fuck them all. I only care about what I want.

This is the ultimate strength. And to be this type of MGTOW, essentially a sigma, is good. I will admit I am not a sigma yet, but I am well on my way. My life is my own and I do what I want to.

Think of it this way. If you could have random hot women to fuck at any time and when you are done they disappear, would you pick that life or what you have now?

Is sex the most important thing ever? Is that the most noble goal? I will quote what I always quote.

I teach you the Overman! Mankind is something to be overcome. What have you done to overcome mankind?

All beings so far have created something beyond themselves. Do you want to be the ebb of that great tide, and revert back to the beast rather than overcome mankind? What is the ape to a man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just so shall a man be to the Overman: a laughing-stock, a thing of shame. You have evolved from worm to man, but much within you is still worm. Once you were apes, yet even now man is more of an ape than any of the apes.

Thus spoke Zarathustra

http://praxeology.net/zara.htm

Your life isn't to be a woman's fucking ATM. There are more important things in life than sex, and many great men have been virgins, like Nikola Tesla, Lawrence of Arabia or avoided/did little with women like Kierkegaard and Nietzsche. Women are not important. Women don't fucking matter. At all. Fuck them. They are worse than men in every way except for fucking, and they often aren't even good at fucking. Why would you choose to spend time with a woman? MGTOW are like every other man except they say "sex/plate/game/ONS are too risky and the juice isn't worth the squeeze", and they are right.

Seriously dealing with women is so fucking horrible. They are just shit people. Like imagine if we were all gay and attracted to dudes, but we acted like men still, that would seriously be a paradise. I know this sounds gay as fuck but if you are honest you will see how awful women are. Thats why pussy is so good, because for pussy to be so good, women have to be shit, thats why you brain suspends rationality around hot women, and "love", because women are so shit if you were objective you wouldn't fuck them. MGTOW are the ones who figured that out.

Labore_Et_Constantia · 2014-09-02T01:59:23+00:00

Mike Tyson (early in his career) Christ Tesla

Guys who were MGTOW before MGTOW existed.

Fact: women for the most part WILL hamper your dreams if you spend sufficient time chasing them.

I don't agree with MGTOWs that use it as an excuse to not understand game, women or do some form of self improvement, but there are also MGTOWs that use it as a strategy to pursue other things THEY place value on.

The bottom line is that an alpha male is defined by NO ONE but themselves, unless you're going to adhere to my standards for certain pursuits, why should I adhere to yours?

lemonparty · 2014-09-02T02:40:08+00:00

You may not be pedestalling a specific pussy, but you sure are pedestalling pussy.

MGTOW is just saying that relationships and pussy aren't the end-all-be-all of human existence. I think you miss the point of it entirely. It's about focusing on yourself first, and being the best you can be --- and letting the pussy-chips fall where they may. If you build it, they will come.

DudeZoltan · 2014-09-02T06:23:17+00:00

This isn't what The Red Pill that I once knew is truly about.

If you actually think TRP is about just one thing, you've been doing it wrong, friend. We all most swallow the same pill, but not all of us require the same reaction. You don't have a problem with the fact that some RedPillers choose casual sex while others choose LTRs or marriage, so why isn't MGTOW an option too? MGTOW and casual sex (or even PUA) aren't mutually exclusive, by the way. For me, the overlap.

You're essentially saying "Women are stupid and I'm done with them. I don't need them to live a happy and successful life. I can just masturbate and work hard forever and I'll be fine."

MGTOW doesn't necessarily involve celibacy. I'm pretty sure what most MGTOWs avoid are LTRs, marriage and casual friendships with women. Which is a very sane and logical thing to do these days.

If you classify yourself as a "MGTOW" then you've probably already given up

Given up on what? The toxic egomaniacs who are commonly referred to as human females? Oh yes, I'm sure I'm missing out big time, since we all know how absolutely awesome dead bedrooms, bossy wives, divorce rape, false accusations, alimony, child support and cuckoldry is.

Apart from sex, women add literally zero value to my life. Name one, just one good reason, why my interactions with them should go any further than coitus.

But, my advice is to come back to the dark side.

You know, perhaps there are guys around here who are on a side too dark for you to see it.

Nothing in life can replace achieving all of your goals and having sex with attractive women.

Jesus, I thought this was the one place on earth where we don't put pussy on a pedastal. If you can't be happy without women, you are emotionally dependent on them. Emotional dependency -or any form of dependency on women- is the essential essence of a blue-pill lifestyle. I thought this was well known around here.

Sex is great, but in my honest opinion, you aren't living a RedPill lifestyle until you find ~~as much~~ more pleasure in strengthening your body, your mind and your collection of valuable things than in banging yet another air-headed bimbo.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your entire post makes it sound like pussy should be high up on my priority list. It's not. I'm having more sex than any of my blue/purple friends (thanks to Self Improvement), but I refuse to declare casual sex anything more than a secondary matter in my life.

The man who introduced me to TRP once said "Zoltan, sex with beautiful women is great. And so is watching a good movie. Or eating a well-made steak. Or watching a football game. You should try some of these things in your free time."

Red_Shirt_Blue_Pants · 2014-09-02T02:17:10+00:00

Meh. Same can be said for a lot of Terpers who claim to not put pussy on a pedestal yet everything they do in life revolves around getting women.

There are MGTOWS that focus on becoming successful and prioritize that over pussy. Then there are MGTOWs who give up. Just how there are Terpers who aim for self imrovment and some that just want pussy.

You cant hate other subs for generalizing about us then do the same to MGTOWs. Just makes you look as bad as feminists.

sir_wankalot_here · 2014-09-02T03:46:32+00:00

MGTOW has been the solution for 80% of men for most of human history. You are the one who is out of touch with reality.

PathToMan · 2014-09-02T05:01:58+00:00

i still have sex with women

and am mgtow

and i put zero effort into women

and i have sex with them

zero effort

sex

Seriously though, the point of MGTOW is to be outcome independent, not chaste or abstinent. Not only do you thoroughly NOT understand the concept, you are even wrong about your opinions on your false interpretation of MGTOW.

I'm thankful this thread is getting downvoted because it belongs in the garbage.

nolvorite · 2014-09-02T05:35:54+00:00

[permanently deleted]

OneThrowawayToGoPlz · 2014-09-02T05:52:54+00:00

You're implying mgtow is some monolithic, codified ideology rather than a label people can self-identify with with loose notions on what the problems in society are and how one can react to them.

As such, there probably are as much nuances and reasons and ways of 'going mgtow', as there are mgtow. And anyone claiming they're the mgtow pope (or someone arguing the opposite camp), putting forward their idea of what mgtow is as though it's scripture is likely strawmanning for them to feel superior about.

So sure, some eschew women entirely, but others DO involve themselves with women, though merely for a quickie on the side, never engaging in anything long term (and marrying least of all...), while still others do get into ltr (still not marrying, but at least demanding their women contribe something meaningful beside pussy)...

As for their reasons? Incel and apathetic about it, or maybe just fed up with the bs that comes with relationships with women... For some it's a socio-political move where they recognize the utter shit mentality of women these days and the laws and culture that perpetuates it, and they go on strike, if you will, demanding men grow a higher standard in women for themselves, and demanding women will finally wake up from 'where have all the good men gone' and start bettering themselves by stopping being a slave to their biology, stopping taking stuff for granted, and starting to actually contribute and work at things equally like men do...

Take your pick, I guess...

And go watch more barbarossa videos. He articulates things better than I could.

TheReason13 · 2014-09-02T12:41:18+00:00

Your logic is not only lacking, its feminine. The clumsy claims you make about MGTOW does nothing but prove you know nothing of it.

If half of Walmarts customer base stop purchasing from Walmart, Walmart will be faced with complete financial ruin within months and be forced to change their policies to benefit disgruntled customers.

If black people are quarantined to the back of the bus for the benefit of white people, all black people withdraw from using the bus system and work together to provide the black community independence from public transport. They will bankrupt the bus transportation system and force them to bend to the will of the black community.

Is this submission?

Submission? Your post is an reckless strawman. MGTOW is passive resistance. The current system that govern us thrives on the exploitation of male disposability, it thrives on destroying the lives of men for the benefit of women and the state. You are no stranger to this fact. It does not matter how good you are at gaming women or how informed you are about the states exploitation of the man. If you play the game by your terms you only lessen the risks, you don't eliminate it.

If a man decides that the risk is not worth the reward then you don't have the right to call him a submissive pussy because of it. If a man decides to assume the risks involved with playing the system, like we at TRP do, it is his decision and nobody has the right to call him reckless for it.

You fool. Educate yourself on these matters before you attempt deconstruction. We discuss things based on logic not emotion. You must learn to entertain something you don't agree with, otherwise you're logic will be fallacious as in this post.

wrez · 2014-09-02T02:13:06+00:00

I am not MGTOW but you are reading MGTOW wrong.

MGTOW is not eschewing flings, but only avoiding LTRs. MGTOW is not voluntary celibacy.

In TRP terms, think of it as permanently spinning plates, and ditching them anytime they press for LTR.

biggestboss · 2014-09-02T02:59:08+00:00

you write like a woman composing shitty internet articles. live your own life and make your own choices.

SoftHarem · 2014-09-02T01:19:36+00:00

I've always maintained that MGTOW are TRP's extremist lesbian separatists. You can't rationalize away your desire for sex as it is quite literally coded into your DNA. Furthermore, any actual MGTOW have already been successful with women and are out on oil rigs, or climbing mountains - not rationalizing their fake lifestyle and failures with women on the internet.

yea_tht_dnt_go_there · 2014-09-02T04:31:54+00:00

I'm a "MGTOW" dude if thats what you want to call it.

I have freedom. A lot of girls think "omg he just wants to fuck whoever whenever" No silly. It always comes down to sex with them. I have the freedom to leave the toilet seat however I see fit. When I go out to eat I never play the "I don't want to go there, I don't know what I want" game.

Women haven't turned their backs on me; I've turned my backs on them, romantically speaking. I realized i'm the prize. I have so much to offer. Why chase them? As narcissistic as that sounds, I simply don't need some one to inflate my ego. I feel good by myself.

One day i'd like a family, but no need to rush into that. I see 22 year old friends of mine get married and I think "what suckas"

FLFTW16 · 2014-09-02T08:02:25+00:00

The thing is: I agree with OP, but I also agree with MGTOW. I think we need both. Personally I like a LTR with a woman but I totally understand guys that want to just be by themselves. All options must remain available to men so that we, as a group, are not taken for granted.

smokingmonkey420 · 2014-09-02T01:18:42+00:00

I was thinking something along the lines of this recently. But, what if instead of dread game, you use MGTOW. Let me explain.

It's often stated that dread game is the most effective tool in your LTR game. Entertaining the idea of someone else spiking your interest more-so than your current lover.

What if you flipped this, and essentially made the point that you did not care if she were to walk.

ROTHSCHILD_GOON_1913 · 2014-09-02T04:49:17+00:00

lol i don't think that any "real" MGTOW is going to care about anything that any of us say on the internet about them. that's kind of the whole point.

some people just don't have as much of a sex drive as others. if they're able to get by without having the constant need to mate, why is that a bad thing for them or for anyone else? yeah, there are probably some guys out there that use "MGTOW" as an excuse for not putting effort into getting laid. but really, who cares? why is this important or something that needs to be complained about? those guys can take care of their own lives - they don't need you to tell them what to do.

you should go back and replace every instance of "women", "pussy", and "sex" in your post with "heroin", and see how stupid it sounds.

whatsazipper · 2014-09-02T01:59:01+00:00

Unfortunately, this type of nonsense and similar like it have become quite common lately. It's easy to see that they're completely dishonest. If they didn't care about women they wouldn't be bitching about them on the internet. They seem like the most sexually frustrated males.

triceratraps · 2014-09-02T01:49:49+00:00

There once was a fox that passed under an elevated vineyard and saw a patch of the juiciest most delicious grapes on earth. The fox jumps with all his might and fails to get the grapes. He then leaves saying " what do I want a bunch of sour grapes anyways". MGTOW are perfect examples of cognitive dissonance. They want to have sex and relationships with women, but for a variety of reasons they cannot. This creates a huge amount of mental stress. Now they have two options, they can channel the stress and become better or they can give up and dismiss sex and woman as something they never wanted in the first place. The second option is lazy and dishonest.

SgtBrutalisk · 2014-09-02T02:01:23+00:00

Can MGTOW even exist as a part of a group? It defies the very definition of MGTOW. Imagine the "Anarchist Collective" - the very core of anarchy is that there is no one giving orders. How about "Sovereign Movement" etc. I don't think actual MGTOW publicly talk about their status, they just keep on trucking.

2014-09-02T03:12:26+00:00

I find it interesting that not associating with women is termed by you as "giving up". This is only a conclusion come to if you base your life around women, and therefore by not associating with them, you say we are "giving up". What's the point of having sex with women? You never actually objectively explain the benefits, apart from saying that it's simply "good" to do so whilst achieving your goals in life. I do think that you must have goals in life, however, if you deem women to be essential to this process, you are in essence a mangina.

Your self-worth is centered around women, I'd even reasonably assume that you seek out sex with women as a way to affirm your masculinity. Of course, this is what "The Red Pill" centers around. It's great for getting laid, but is an end to itself in this way, as it becomes useless once you're glutted and look for something more fulfilling. "Game", or validating your masculinity from women is not something that will continue to fill the emptiness within yourself. This emptiness is part of the male condition, and the only thing that can fill it is the pursuit of a greater existence; what you define as a greater existence is up to you. However, equating MGTOWs with giving-up is a false perspective coming from mangina MRAs/feminists, and is something I did not expect to find here of all places.

Of course, in my life, I associate with women all the time. MGTOW doesn't mean swearing off women, it simply means recognizing women (synonymous with TRP) as they really are, and not giving in to the blue-pill perspective. In this way, I'd go as far as to say that MGTOW is almost indistinguishable from TRP, apart from TRP's utter fixation on "Game" and "becoming a man" through "Game", which is of course giving power to women as dent of them defining your identity (I may be wrong about this, but if any of you are more familiar with the philosophy, I hope you'd care to explain it to me).

whatsazipper · 2014-09-02T02:02:16+00:00

The thread in question.

This infestation needs to be exterminated.

AchillesOtherLeg · 2014-09-02T09:41:19+00:00

I identify with much of what the MGTOW guys are saying and their response to the SMP has good internal logical consistency. I see hate on both sides of the MGTOW / RP divide and it frankly baffles me. RPers who feel the need to admonish men for not 'manning up' and dealing with womens bullshit. MGTOWs who slate RP for being pussy obsessed simps. These guys have lost sight of what's going on and what the other party is really doing.

Ultimately for me it's about the gene pool. I demand to be in it because I deserve to be far more than many who are already in it. Humanity needs my seed because it's superior. Female choice is the problem, look at species controlled by female choice and you'll see rediculously colourful males leaping around doing stupid dances while females look on judging plumage and position. RP is a tool to circumvent the retarded and highly destructive influence of dumbfuck females making shit choices.

MGTOW is a good mindset to develop outcome independence and blow through shit tests. It also helps to understand the need for the dump part of pump and dump. If females don't fucking get a clue and wise up to how worthless they make themselves when they issue constant unwarranted shit tests then they deserve to be single mothers.

AFBB wont last forever owing simply to darwinism. You cannot continually select against betas without eliminating them from the gene pool. Its AF all the way until all the betas are dead and then the women will learn the true meaning of patriarchy. Hope to see you or your genes there.

Counter423 · 2014-09-02T08:14:37+00:00

OP puts the pussy on the pedestal.

Mods delete this thread.

Beta bitch op.

adrixshadow · 2014-09-02T08:50:53+00:00

Not everybody can be alphas.

Reproduction is just a urge given to us by out reptile brains. There is already a lot of people in the world.

Lots of important people in our history simply didn't have the time for useless relationships, there minds were more important. If you have something to dedicate yourself too that can be more powerful of a legacy then mere genes.

That said most MGTOW aren't at that level but they can be satisfied in their own way. Not getting in relationships is a massive release of burden.

We are all in pursuit of happiness wherever it may be so don't judge one as lesser.

Plus MGTOW and porn will totally destroy feminism and the current social structure. IT IS the backlash that will fix the problems.

Nutpeddler · 2014-09-02T13:07:01+00:00

This touches a point I wrestle with quite often since the pill. Did the lack of sex make me not want it that much, or am I just not a very sexual person? I can go with not much sex for quite some time, and from what I've heard, most guys release themselves much more than I do.

I'm not making pussy a priority for me. Self-improvement, on the other hand, has my full attention. That's what I'm taking away, leaving the other problem for a time when I would have less problems with getting some action.

2014-09-02T15:10:03+00:00

There are social patterns coming from men in response to MGTOW that I've picked up on. PUA's and Romantic Traditionalists will most often shame it; they also immediately put their idealism of a great man's life into this model. Men who identify with it, whether interested in PUA or not, will defend it. I try to be intellectually honest with myself, and that includes being honest with myself about my emotional state. This year has been a roller-coaster for me. So I wouldn't personally attempt to prescribe the perfect life for anyone else and I don't care much when strangers do it for me. I'm also not anti-dating by any means, I find a lot of women unintelligent to a point where I don't want to be their friend, and I can't put up with mainstream bullshit and hollow materialism with no deeper thought, I'd rather practice beta game until I die than pursue someone with any chance that they might only have that in their head.

Entrefut · 2014-09-02T19:10:19+00:00

Why are you even concerning yourself with mgtow? They obviously don't believe the same things you do, accept it and move on. They aren't players in our game, so why do they bother you?

2014-09-02T01:04:37+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ASAP_Bubble_Tea · 2014-09-02T03:28:35+00:00

I see MGTOW as something temporary, a period of time you utilize to dedicate fully to life goals and make something of your time. Once you allow women to come back in your life, your value will have raised and hopefully you are an improved man.

Red_August · 2014-09-02T10:35:01+00:00

Amen. Accepting, getting over yourself, learning and growing will lead you to a healthier, more sustainable, and ultimately more realistic outlook on women/society. Sure they can be (helluva) difficult but MGTOW is reactionary. That's key to understanding that it reeks of trying to manage a state of perpetual frustration. You can read the yet still unabated anger in MGTOW commentary across TRP. We all started rooted in frustration but MGTOW never comes to term with it because it avoids it.

Coming to terms with it instead of avoiding it allows you to engage in all facets of life. The effort for women does not have to drain your life-force.

Taking an early wrong turn because of your feelz (yes, that's right) and then trying to go Buddhist to quell your inner voices may not be the best approach. Its not the most sustainable one for that matter because it simply requires too much energy expenditure despite its false aura of serenity.

Yes, of course making sex an obsessional focus in life is unsustainable and also a misaligned life strategy. Its not a binary choice.

But attempting to shut off your biological imperative to actively participate in sexual competition requires paddling up the current whilst accepting, getting over yourself, learning and growing will lead you to a place of energy, of playful active sexual participation in life, of true lightness in being, and that's paddling with the current.

Yes, I know MGTOW is about focusing on yourself and fully exploring life actively but there's no reason to stop just short. The burden playful active sexual participation places on you is really not that big if you have the right foundation.

This isn't to say that we all don't need the occasional holiday from women, and from all the noise in order to re-calibrate. This isn't to say that the current state of Westernised culture and feminism isn't challenging but there is real beauty in unpacking your raw natural impetus and sexual drive.

I understand that men will fall in all sorts of different locations on the wide spectrum of sexual drive, and also on the natural alpha-beta spectrum for that matter. But the way of the Church of MGTOW is a model maladapted. I will however recognise that perhaps some of us have disabilities that force an entirely different coping strategy.

tl;dr - The Church of MGTOW is seductive but the strategy of coming to terms with oneself and the world is possible and it does allow a more holistic ROI in life.

MaxPower6 · 2014-09-02T12:30:30+00:00

When people here say MGTOW can include spinning plates and casual sex but no LTRs or marriage, it contradicts the constant use of examples of great scientist geeks who were MGTOW who had absolutely nothing to do with women. Hence the confusion. The MGTOW definition seems too broad.

2014-09-02T04:08:15+00:00

Mgtow is only acceptable if you're under 25.

SwansonDinner · 2014-09-02T04:25:11+00:00

Why are you so angry about what another guy does or does not do with his dick. Do you have some sort of homosexual fantasy in your mind? A threesome with a 2nd guy?

There are plenty of MGTOW that still have sex. Educate yourself.

MaxPower6 · 2014-09-02T03:31:32+00:00

Mgtow is world class hamstering and a buffer.

Title	MGTOW Is Not A Healthy Long-term Solution
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	110
Date	September 2, 2014 12:58 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2f7sz5/mgtow_is_not_a_healthy_longterm_solution/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/mgtow-is-not-a-healthy-long-term-solution.20375 https://theredarchive.com/post/20375

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