Constant Internal Struggle

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October 5, 2018
6 upvotes

Not sure what phase of the process this is...

Started doing the reading 4-5 months ago. Lifting about a month later.
Wife and I are HS Sweethearts. Married 10 years, together 18. One 3yo son & 1 on the way.

Wife is a reasonable, practical, competent woman who is also a boring, uptight prude. I've had her on the world's highest pedestal for 15+ years, and thought we were going to live the fairy tale. Both pregnancies have turned her into a witch.

I'm the Frankenstein who has created this monster. I've placated, deferred, and avoided conflict for our entire relationship. She has essentially no reason to respect me, other than that I'm professionally successful and the one of the two of us that all our friends like.

The spell has only really broken in the last month or so. I was really holding on to the fairy tale. I'm through most of the anger phase, but I keep getting stuck with frame.

I've stopped avoiding conflict, and her strategy to get me back under her thumb is always emotional manipulation. She knows exactly what to say to get me feeling like I'm wrong, I'm selfish, I'm a narcissist.

The way I see it now, I have essentially two options. We've already started skirting around ending the relationship, which would be financially difficult and challenging for the kids. Still, it's better than the alternative of letting two boys watch their father become an empty husk of a human. So that's option 1. Kill the puppy for her, say, "thanks for your time," and move on to pursue life as I like.

Option 2 is a greater challenge. Can I fix myself enough to turn her into a woman I want to be married to while staying married. Being in the house with her makes me question everything.

I know what the answer is. Lift, read, repeat. I know I need to do more of that. I also have found myself at an acute inflection point where I've essentially stated that in an upcoming move I don't want to share the same house. If I lock in on that as the path forward, it almost certainly ends in divorce. If I back down even a little, she wins, I prove that she can set the rules of whatever game we're playing.

Also, I'd say that I'm probably a little bit terrified of becoming a monster. I've already told her I'm interested in sleeping with other women, and that won't be going away. My inclination is to say, "these are new rules. I appreciate we had a monogamous agreement, but I'm not interested in that for the rest of my life. If that's unworkable for you, feel free to file for divorce." My hesitation is that somehow I still feel like it's my "responsibility" to be honest and end the marriage myself if that's what I want.

The constant voice telling me what is "right" vs what I want is driving me nuts.


Post Information
Title Constant Internal Struggle
Author CareerBeta
Upvotes 6
Comments 38
Date 05 October 2018 12:26 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/203941
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/9lhi7s/constant_internal_struggle/
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Comments

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine13 points14 points  (10 children) | Copy

“boring, uptight prude”

She was reflecting you.

Stfu. You only been at this a few months. Married 10 years? Give it 1 year.

Get out your head. Maximize your SMV for the next year. Then you’ll be in a position to have options. You’ve been a lifetime beta, need to transform into a strong confident alpha.

Why turn into a monster? I don’t get it. Becoming an alpha male doesn’t mean becoming a monster.

[–]hack3geRed Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

The boring, uptight prude ones tend to be the wildest and uninhibited if you lead them to it

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t scare him...

[–]CareerBeta[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Being selfish and manipulative are the characteristics of villains. I'm so fucking far gone that asserting what I want feels like bullying. It's fucking disgusting.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

“asserting what I want feels like bullying. It's fucking disgusting.”

I get it. I was there too. I bought into the whole marriage fantasy and gave her everything. I was kind, loving, supportive, compassionate, and understanding. But I was boring, predictable, and a pussy. I was begging for sex on my honey moon. 10 year deadbedroom. The more I worked on “us” , the more she turned into a harpey sexless cunt.

“Being selfish and manipulative are the characteristics of villains.”

Bullshit.

We were brainwashed to believe that shit. Becoming a man and acting assertive is not being selfish and manipulative. Not even fucking close.

I know it feelz like that, we were just raised putting everyone else’s needs ahead of ourselves.

Time to take care of yourself. How can you lead your family and be strong for your kids if you aren’t strong yourself?

You want to be a strong masculine role model for them. You need to lift and start acting assertive. Need to start cultivating a strong inner game too. You have a long way to go man.

That pussy is yours. You deserve it. Take it.

You are the Prize. Start acting like it.

“It's fucking disgusting”

Only non-faggot thing you said. Let that anger out in the iron temple. Lift mother fucker.

[–]witnessthenomorebp2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit. This was enlightening and caught me off guard after all the shit talking comments.

[–]FoxShitNasty832 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking wow

[–]hack3geRed Beret8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy

Calm the fuck down Rambo.

It’s clear you haven’t left the anger phase - I mean if you want to live alone I won’t judge or at least you shouldn’t let me. The reason she doesn’t respect you is you haven’t shown her you are deserving of respect - it’s that simple.

It sounds like to me you are afraid to do the hard work - I was there too. She won’t end the relationship - it’s a shit test. No one jumps off a moving ship - my wife climbed her ass back on after she had jumped off.

You are no where near where you need to be to tell your wife you are gonna fuck other women. My wife knows I can replace her with 3 women half her age - she’s seen it with her own eyes and I could hold frame through that conversation and I’m not even ready to say that to her. You haven’t done the work - follow the program.

As for her attitude - my wife still tests me and gets harpy. But you know what I think it’s cute - her little wrinkled nose, furrowed brow and feigned anger. I love seeing the look in her eye when she gets wet when I don’t stand for her shit. Tonight she threw me some crazy shit test and I say cool don’t bother coming home then - she texts me later that she’s looking at houses online since I told her to move out - I reply make sure it has a pool, the kids really would love a good pool and my house just doesn’t have the room. I could hear her huff from across town - it’s all a game they love the emotions and you have to learn to appreciate it.

The nice thing about MRP is it’s just a guide - it won’t make you a monster, prick, narcissist, cheater or anything for that matter unless you choose to. My favorite thing these days is when the wife gets in a huge huff and calls me an asshole - imo it’s the greatest compliment a woman can give you.

[–]CareerBeta[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Thanks. I honestly said it only after getting to the end of my rope of supplicating.

I know I wasn't Outcome Independent for a divorce until after having to have the fight I caused. I probably still have a twinge of desire to keep it together for the kids, but I'm pretty comfortable I'd be better off with a fresh start.

I think a lot of it comes from other outcomes that I have wanted to manage. I haven't wanted to be considered a prick. I don't want people saying I'm a narcissist, that I was abusive, that I was a liar. I still carry around a bit too much concern with not becoming the villian of the fairytale I had previously been living.

[–]RuleZeroDADRed Beret7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

I haven't wanted to be considered a prick. I don't want people saying I'm a narcissist, that I was abusive, that I was a liar.

You can be a paragon of virtue, but the moment you initiate a divorce, all of those things will be said about you anyway.

It's about being assertive in what it is you want to do. Assertive people, when first starting out in that direction (as opposed to being milquetoast pushovers), come off as being assholes. She will definitely tell you so when you are starting to do it right.

Women are mirrors with a terabyte of memory. They reflect our inadequacies in an attempt to disrupt our frame and control the narrative. They also remember every horrible missive that has ever escaped that DEERing mouth of yours. That memory needs to be written over, or you start over with a new woman.

Whatever your decision, you are not prepared to move on to someone new. Frankly, you suck too much right now, and you will only be doing yourself a disservice by going about new adventures half-made.

Get your body, frame, money and career in line first, before you make a decision on your marriage. Make yourself your mental point of origin so you can assess whether you are making a decision based on reason (objectively are you fuckable?) and not emotion (mommy makes me so mad!)

[–]CareerBeta[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes. I know full well I suck. I suppose my mistake is blaming my wife for why I suck. I feel like a junkie who keeps getting pulled back and wants to break it off cold turkey. It's not her fault she keeps dealing the goods, it's mine for continuing to pay such a high cost.

[–]witnessthenomorebp7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stop thinking about leaving her. Until you are a man again you can't leave because this relationship is THE single best training ground to force you to make yourself better. Once you read the matrix you can't unsee it and so any self respecting man will push himself to be better while in the forge of an LTR. She will point out and harp on every weakness you have, saving you the trouble of doing it, then you change that for you instead of her. So stop trying to leave boot camp until you have graduated. Then, if you want, leave with your head high instead of slinking away after ringing the bell.

[–]hack3geRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You’ve got some work to do - you still care what people think of you. You have no frame for your world - what do you think and what do you want?

[–]CareerBeta[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's the only value structure I've ever had. "Play by the rules, be a good boy, people will like you and you can have a nice life."

For some reason I'm resisting using "what I want" as a north star for decisions that involve other people. I've broken past the point of "I know what's best for me" but don't yet have a rational framework for "I know what's best for us."

[–]buckeyeboy19776 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not wise to up the dread while she is expecting there Rambo.

[–]IRunYourRiver5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the anger phase. MRP is an emotional rollercoaster. But ultimately just remember that your wife is following her biological imperative in a manner exactly analogous to you. Follow Dread. Read the books. Keep a journal. Recognize, even if you fail, the fitness tests. You'll get there. Be patient.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Too many fucks given.

Beta sees unicorn is not perfect breaks glass, but still has head up her ass

Kill your hampster and ego, avoid conversations with her calling you “poopy head” and you react with such verbiage.

STFU. Stoicism. Lift. Read. STFU

[–]IRunYourRiver2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who first said "poopy head"? Was it screechhater? You don't know how many times that has helped me. So true.

[–]CareerBeta[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

So many fucks.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do 'mental monk mode'. A period of emotional separation from your wife.

Weed out all that shit, like oneitis, arguing, fucks given.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ah, spoken so softly, but delivered with a nonetheless fuck given, almost as much as my "Not giving ten fucks

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Literally think to self, if she is hit by train tomorrow, will I be able to smash new shortly ?

Seriously though, are you the best version of you ? Would you tolerate you ?

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Divorce already. It's like you are throwing it out there to us as a threat.

MRP you better work or I am divorcing.

Fuck. Look I don't know what it is about guys that come in here and go....holy shit I can divorce and get laid all the time.

Only YOU can't. It's not even about that. If you can't get laid married you sure as fuck can't single. Ok...maybe while you are on that business trip and stop by that little bar for a drink. The local town greeter, Mary Jane Rotten Crotch will, that ONE time. It will be a meaningless fuck though. Inside you will know it, but you would hamster it as a great stride in your masculinity.

So let's just assume you have the frame and the balls to do what you say. I don't think you do. There are all idle threats. You told her you want to fuck other women. Do it. You laid the gauntlet down. You are in charge. So do it.

Thing is your wife is right. You are a faggot. Only she is too polite to use those words. You back down becasue you keep putting yourself into positions where you think you have to be the man and draw a line in the sand. You think your boundaries are literally that. Some line of demarcation that is either crossed or not. A real man, an Alpha, knows that 99% of life isn't about taking a stand. You've done that way too much in your life. You've wasted time and energy on taking stands, dying on hills, or falling on swords.

Then someone moves the goal just little more and you have to take another stand. Stop giving your word, stop trying to make everyone aware of your position in life.

Boundaries are what you want and don't want. Then that is what you do. This is why the Internet and US is so wrapped around the axle about our politics. Everything is stand to take, a position to hold, an opinion to be had. No. It's not. It's not always life and death. Our life is pretty fucking easy these days and if your wife's bitchiness is the worse you got? Fuck, Your hamster is fucking HUGE. Your hamster's dick is so far up your ass your can taste the tip as its poking out your throat.

I don't really give a fuck what you do. Yet don't come in here and say your wife is a bitch and how you can't take it any more.

You have a world of choices out there. Man with options is powerful and you have hamster'd your way out of any of them.

You can't even decide who's cock you want to suck. Your wife's or your hamster's.

[–]CareerBeta[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent point about the idle threats. I know I've currently got myself anchored to a moral framework that would have me feeling too guilty to cheat. Still part of my "nice guy" world view. If I wasn't willing to do it, I shouldn't say it.

In other words STFU.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

You sound amazingly like me, with one exception...it doesn't sound like you like her.

At all.

[–]CareerBeta[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I don't really. I did. But now I don't.

It's been 3 years of near constant low-level criticism and mind games.

I guess I am still raging more than I realized.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're allowed to not like her. It's common. But you need to have a light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm serious about my other comment. Try to switch of emotionally. You need to focus on yourself anyway. A month or two disconnected will do wonders for you both.

I don't know how hard your trying, but it is the same advice as to say..." stop trying so hard".

[–]FoxShitNasty831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the long game, what helped me.

Don't follow her around or do what she isn doing unless you want to. Start thinking about what you want, what hobbies can you persure away from her. I was cuddling and hands on with my wife waaay more than I realized... but only because I was thirsty for sex. She hated it and never touched me... All one way. I stopped both physically and mentally attaching to her... It was sick anyway. Slowly it's turning... Slowly slowly starting light kino again.

[–]TheBlueStare1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

She is PREGNANT. If you leave now I don't care if you dedicated your life to orphans after this everyone will think you're a fucking prick. You need to STFU and work on yourself. If you go Rambo now while she is PREGNANT and ,shit it may be too late, she will hold it against you for the rest of your marriage and probably divorce you in five years because of it. Pregnancy is like one giant comfort test. now is not the time to go Rambo. Not to mention your 4 months into a roughly 18 month process most likely longer because your wife is PREGNANT.

Let's recap you essentially said you have an AAAAF marriage except when she is PREGNANT and then it becomes an FFFFF marriage. And you already knew this from the last time she was PREGNANT but you're upset because she is being a witch again. Why are you upset? You already knew this was going to happen. Get the fuck over it and suck it up the next few months.

Everyone has given you good advice and you can use a lot of it now and definitely in the future. But all the normal rules don't apply during pregnancy and breastfeeding. The hormones throw off the normal patterns there is nothing you or your wife can do about it. So just ride the wave. I am not saying you should keep being a complete beta lap dog, but this is one of the most important times to provide beta. This is the difference between TRP and MRP. Why MRP is TRP on hard. In MRP you have to know when to be beta and when to be alpha. This is the time to provide beta, FYI. My wife has been pregnant or breastfeeding for 5-6 of the last 7 years, so I can relate to your struggles. But you need to just put your head down and STFU and work on yourself. And a year from now or whenever all of her hormones have normalized you'll be ready and in position to make her your slut. And turn your marriage from an AAAAF to an AAAAA.

Edited to add:

This is from BPP levels of dread. Which you can in the wiki on the side bar:

Edit 6: THE USE OF EVEN MINOR FORMS OF DREAD IS NOT SUGGESTED DURING PREGNANCY

We have had reports recently about men using Dread during the wife's pregnancy AND IT CREATES A SHIT STORM.

DREAD is off limits during a pregnancy from what I have seen. They freak out even with soft dread. Anything new, even things like deciding to get in shape and leaving for the gym needs to be handled carefully because it is enough to create an existential crisis in some marriages. You can continue to apply Dread that you have already used- such as going out with the boys, checking out girls, etc. You should NOT start any new dread with a pregnant woman.

The essence of MRP is to be the masculine, rational, logical, leader of your life, your wife, and your marriage and that is even more important with pregnant women. You just can't suddenly become the leader if you were not before. Any major changes are verboten BUT you can roll it out sloooowly and begin to pick up your balls and assert yourself as the man as the natural course of things while still providing lots of comfort.

[–]CareerBeta[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the thorough response.

Honestly the "kid gloves while pregnant" thing is tough for me. I've been so engrained with "men and women should be treated as equals" dogma, that I'm still holding her to expected levels of rationality that I know logically are unrealistic. There's so many areas where I'm still playing out of the old rulebooks.

I am where I am now. I did trigger a shit storm. It was less than ideal timing, but I own it. Ultimately I needed to go through it anyway to test my resolve and anxiety/fear of divorce.

[–]weakandsensitive8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

oh fuck off and stop whining like a victimized bitch. you got treated exactly how you deserved to be.

[–]Reach180Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She knows exactly what to say to get me feeling like I'm wrong, I'm selfish, I'm a narcissist.

First, be OK with being this.

Option 2 is a greater challenge.

There is no option 1 or option 2. Only 1 option. Grow a spine and unfuck yourself. You don't know what your actual options are until you establish what the best version of yourself is.

Lift, read, repeat.

Not exactly. Lift heavy and often, sure. But read and repeat? Less important. Finish the sidebar and start acting. Re-read if you want...but you don't make progress until you start acting, fucking up, and learning from your mistakes.

Also....shut the fuck up. All the stuff you've told her already is a cringe-fest. Stop talking about what you're going to do, what you want her to do, what you're interested in. You're a spineless nice guy pussy who is trying to manipulate her with these threats while acting like you've got some sort of moral high ground. Shut up and get to work.

[–]CareerBeta[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks to everyone who responded.

When I said, "I know what the answer is" I obviously missed "STFU."

I'm only going to get the answers I'm looking for after putting in the work.

[–]Rian_StoneMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]JudgeDoom690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm only going to get the answers I'm looking for after putting in the work.

That's correct. Give it a year. Lift heavy free-weights, be a leader, own your shit around the house, and ignore shit tests.

As the pregnancy progresses and after the baby comes you need step it up and be super-dad to the baby and your son. Go above and beyond what you're expected to do without expecting anything in return. You do it, because that's what men do.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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