Pushing off when she initiates?

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January 4, 2018

So I'm slooooowly drawing the 1000' rope tighter, probably 900' to go. Little things are improving at home, hand in hand with some initial IOI's out in the world. Lifting, reading, internalizing, etc, so far so good but still only a few months into my MAP. I'm starting out from a decent place, having been a solid dancing monkey for several years. Mostly working on the philosophical portions of frame and OI now.

One of my goals (duh) is changing the starfish into a minx. A lot (probably 70%) of our sex life is morning sex: she's not tired, hormone levels are up, it's convenient, etc. A shag in the morning isn't a problem per se, but it's all cuddly, sleepy starfish sex, just down to logistics. We're not likely to get up, bust out lingerie and toys and all the rest of it at 6am.

So this morning, the wife is in the sweet spot for ovulation. I knew it would be sometime between yesterday and tomorrow. I initiated last night after a nice dinner out, but got a soft no:tired. Could have pressed through that, but in my experience that's a sure bet for starfish. Sure enough, she comes over to me this morning, playing footsie and rubbing up on me, her form of initiation. I rubbed her pussy a little then told her I want her to stay horny all day then come to bed tonite in a little black teddy that I love. It pushes her tits up just perfectly and has a nice little thong string that pulls right out of the way. I Got up, got my gym clothes on, and got a cup of coffee, which I am drinking as I write this.

So my question is this: will the minor tension I created be more likely to result in the kinky session I hoped for, or did I just violate MMSLP's guideline of not performing when a woman wants it?

Plot twist: she's going out to dinner with 3 of her girlfriends tonite. They are all in various stages of divorce/disgust with their husbands. She will come home either stoked to be married to someone she loves and who isn't a fuckup, or hating men in general. She'll also have a few cocktails in her, which will swing the pendulum of desire/disgust even further in its given direction.

I'll finish the report in the comments tomorrow morning. Happy hunting, gentlemen.

Post Information
Title Pushing off when she initiates?
Author Senor_Martillo
Upvotes 10
Comments 35
Date 04 January 2018 02:22 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/204993
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7o393o/pushing_off_when_she_initiates/
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Red Pill terms found in post:

[–]drjamesstone18 points19 points  (5 children) | Copy

First pitch: opportunity for caveman fucking (last night). Swing and a miss.

Second pitch: She makes a move and you decide you're on a sexual diet and go to the gym. Swing and a miss, the count is 0 and 2

Third pitch: You chose to tell her how the night should go rather than fuck her and send her out with friends still dripping from this morning...swing and a miss, she struck him out....

Do more, say less. Initiate always and follow through every time.

[–]Senor_Martillo1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Ha! I like your analogy. I'll admit I have my doubts about my hitting strategy...but im still at bat. At worst I fouled it away this morning. If I cavemanned it last night, that's a guaranteed starfish. Like getting a walk-on single. We're 20 years in together and I'm over that shit.

If I took the pitch this morning, that's a semi-starfish, maybe a double.

Final pitch comes tonite, where I may strike out, may get a basehit , or may hit it deep into the stands.

Time will tell.

[–]drjamesstone2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

play small ball. right now, you don't appear like you can get it out of the infield anyways. Having your wife see you selfishly enjoy starfish isn't such a bad thing.

[–]snatch_haggis6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

If a 4 year old wants to make their own breakfast, I know I'm gonna end up cleaning up a huge mess and they'll probably burn a waffle or two. I don't say a word about it, because they're moving in the right direction - I just praise 'em and clean up the mess later.

Most would say never turn her down, just ease her slowly in the right direction by leading in bed. When she's begging for it every night because you're giving her endless tingles in every department, then you're in a better position to talk about what you want and how.

That said, a lot of folks seem to have went through a point where they ended up overtly refusing starfish. It's debatable whether it did that much good - it almost always ends in tears and gives her a lot of anxiety around initiating, resulting in an overall decline for awhile.

I said "I deserve better sex than this", a few months ago. She cried a lot and stopped initiating for a month, and it didn't really change things much. Made a lot more progress later with just saying what I wanted in the moment and vocalizing in bed.

I rubbed her pussy a little then told her I want her to stay horny all day then come to bed tonite in a little black teddy that I love

Even if you got a yes to that in the moment her solipsism means that yes is the same thing as doing it right then, and has nothing to do with whether it actually happens later.

Don't be surprised if other things come up and she ends up pretending swearing that conversation never happened. Facts and oaths are not tingles and feels.

[–]Senor_Martillo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah. I'm giving it 50:50 that I can close the deal tonite at all, and 50:50 that it's the fuck I wanted when I deflected this morning. So 75:25 my little experiment fails...gathering data is hard.

Cheers, gentlemen. Good input all around, with a clear majority of you guessing that I made an unforced error. Will advise.

[–]Senor_Martillo6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ok so here's what happened: double starfish.

She did in fact decline to wear the lingerie I had requested, but i fucked her regardless. Pretty much starfish. Tagged it again this morning to slightly better response, but still recognizable as sea-life. Maybe more like a jelly fish.

So my little experiment concludes in fundamental agreement with the majority of comments: if she initiates, I should serve it up good and hard. It's the best window to kinky enthusiastic sex I'm likely to see. There may be scope for tactics like I tried once the rope has been drawn tight, but I'm not there yet.

Back to the gym, back to the sidebar. Peace out, fuckers.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ditto, thanks for following up.

[–]mrpthrowa7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

You are entirely in her frame. So much so you want to drag us into it.

[–]mountainbiker1784 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

I disagree. If he was entirely in her frame, he would have had starfish sex that morning. Now his strategy may have sucked, but I can see that he is trying to get his frame back.

[–]mrpthrowa4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

That's a shitty frame, and it's really reactive to her. A man gets what he wants.

His entire post is him trying to tailor everyone of his acts to get something out of her.

[–]BobbyPeru2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's a shitty frame, and it's really reactive to her. A man gets what he wants.

This. If my wife goes starfish, which very rarely happens (usually if she gets too drunk), I don’t get butthurt.

I finish like a caveman.

I don’t get the logic of depriving yourself of an orgasm because you feel disrespected. That’s in her frame. Now, if your cock goes soft because she’s not into it, that’s a different story.

u/drjamesstone nailed it though. I almost never wait until the end of the night to have sex. 4-5pm is preferable to me... gives time to unwind and chill after. Also, you are missing opportunities and then she’s out with the girls... that’s not a good scenario.

Click here:

Girls Night Out

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Why not fuck her in the morning and at night?

Also, you declined sex after a soft no because of starfish possible starfish? She's training you better than you are her.

[–]Senor_Martillo2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah I'm just over the starfish. We're 20 years in and I'm not in a rush anymore. I want the minx.

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.01 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have to lead to the minx. She isn't going to wake up a porn star one morning and ask you to fuck her in the ass. Well maybe one day but today isn't that day. Read SGM, use the shit out of DEVI and you will get the minx. You have to be the man she wants to not give starfish to.

Starfish is allocated to the provider who she needs to give the bare minimum to keep around.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If a child talks back to you after you send them to their room, is your course of action to not send them to their room in the future because you're "over it" and want them to follow direction without talking back? Or do you send them to their room, get talked back to, and address it appropriately?

[–]drjamesstone1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I'm just over the starfish. We're 20 years in and I'm not in a rush anymore. I want the minx.

I don't want to do the work, I want results.

How does that work in the gym?

[–]dcapt460 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As one who saw lots of starfish in the past, also ~20 yrs in. I have found that pushing through,pinning her, moving her where I want and pounding hard leave her panting and clutching my back even if she wasn't into it from the start. Also have tried to be more than happy to have mine and be done if she is not interested in more. If she clearly wants more then I am all in but if she seems content then Im done. She has never complained about this.

Lately she has commented/Joked? that this is going to be a starfish session and after 5 or 10 min it is full on. Last night she said "I don't know, I think this is a starfish night" me "nope I think this is a blowfish!" giggles. Didn't blow me but it was a really hot session.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Thanks for giving me some insight. I have been trying to write a post about turning her down for sex. How you can do it strategically and what that can mean for you.

[–]Senor_Martillo0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Well, let's see how it turns out. These other dudes think I'm blowing it!

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am not saying you aren't. I was having a hard time coming up with the beta side of the problem, and you gave me the perfect example.

[–]Senor_Martillo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Looking forward to reading it

[–]BostonBrakeJob2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

After reading the post, I was thinking you probably should've took the morning sex and then initiated that night for caveman.

But after reading your replies in the comment section I'm starting to change my mind.

  • You anticipated starfish, didn't want it like that, and declined.

  • (Overtly) You told her what to wear to bed tonight/(Covertly) You told her to step her game up

  • Then you leave the room to start your morning routine, leaving her and her hamster aaaaall alone to figure out what just happend.

  • Your replies show a genuine OI for what happens tonight.

You're trying something out. It may or may not work, but if it doesn't I'm not getting the impression that you'll be back on here tonight crying about it. I like how you played it and would be interested to see how it plays out, both short and long term for you.

It's your experiment, run it how you'd like. But I'd suggest building the tension if you guys talk throughout the day. Not necessarily go out of your way to send a text or call her, but if she calls keep it playful and lay on the inuendos. OYS, you want a porn scene session tonight, keep conveying that to her. And keep the thought in her mind.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man I love this game too. She goes out with friends who talk about getting it up with their husbands by reading 50 Shades .... SO tells me cause she doesn’t have input they all grill her. She states “I have a caged animal at home”

She generally comes home, walks to my side of the bed strips down and has her way with me.

I generally tell her go out nightly with your friends....

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you read Kay's book you'll remember, 70% of sex is ok; and that's ok.

Why didn't you fuck her in the morning and tell her to meet you in the bed with the naughty-wear?

You should have fucked her. She likely saw it as some sort of rejection and now she's sitting there wondering "Why the fuck does he want coffee and not pussy?" She doesn't see it as you denying her dick, but as you rejecting her gift.

Fuck because you want to.

Continue to improve attraction.

Dare I say, read the Sex God Method, when you are ready.?

[–]Senor_Martillo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hmm. You may be right. It's an experiment that could cost me a fuck, no doubt.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

  • “ told her I want her to stay horny all day then come to bed tonite in a little black teddy that I love. It pushes her tits up just perfectly and has a nice little thong string “

This sort of stuff makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. It reeks of thirsty beta and it sounds like you are pedestalising her. Quit that shit. Unless your wife is a HB10 do not treat her like one. Even if she is treat her like a HB7, commandments of poon, ignore her beauty. She senses your neediness. Doesn’t matter if you are in a LTR or spinning plates, talking about a woman in this tone is gross. I am betting she is not saying to her friends tonight, “he has this pair of underpants and when he wears them it makes his bulge look so big and I get so horny.” You are still getting nos, soft or hard nos are a sign that you are well short of your goal. So next time you are feeling like a thirsty beta, just think “what would a cave man do?” instead of writing long ass love letters on the internet.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She clearly does not want to be treated the way OP is treating her. She knows exactly what she wants and it isn't prancing around like a prostitute to entertain her man. She wants animal lust and clothes ripped off, not instructions on what to wear.

[–]redandswollen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

With life, work, kids, gym, etc, I'm getting to the point where I don't want to fuck everyday. I like quality over quantity.

So to answer your question: there's no right answer. I like your experiment-- see if you can let the sexual tension build up, but be aware that her horniness likely has nothing to do with her. You can plant seeds, make yourself attractive, kino, etc, but be prepared for it to not work.

I usually take the policy of never turning down sex and I let kinky sex naturally happen. But my wife has always liked sex so I don't have that problem.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I see a massive covert contract here,

I think you're MRPing for the marriage, not for you.

You willing to blow it all to shit and cut the rope if she doesn't fall pussy first into your whore wife box?

This is a "she" post, and if you're watching the rope pay out behind the boat, then you're facing the wrong direction. Your attention should be on where you're going, not if the lifeboat is still attached.

Thats a long time for "sexual tension" to exist, especially if starfish is still on the table. That means she doesn't dread losing you, so her "A" game does not come out. Wonder why that is?

After a GNO, the best thing you can do is alpha caveman her, really bring a contrast between the passive-aggressive moaning of unhappy women, and the unbridled lust of a man who NEEDS to fuck you now.. to the point where she has no choice... she's going to get fucked.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want her to stay horny all day

LMFAO. Not thinking about you she will not be.

Finger fucking her phone on FB, IG and everything else will make her wetter than your demands and beta bullshit.

She will come home either stoked to be married to someone she loves and who isn't a fuckup, or hating men in general.

Hating men in general. She married to another fuck up.

Happy hunting

I do not think you understand what this means.

[–]mountainbiker1780 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ok. How did she respond after you said that? Also, what kind of sex could she be imagining will happen tonight? In other words, do you (honestly) fuck her good? Do you fuck her like it's your last time? Have you read the Sex God Method???

[–]Senor_Martillo4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

She was non-committal. Sex God method is up next, you're the second guy to mention it in this thread.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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