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Trust but verify vs using time better

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June 7, 2017

So one item I am a little confused on is the concept of trust but verify. I understand what it means and have seen the term thrown around as something we should do and also by guys doing OPSEC on their wives they think are cheating. However, I have also seen statements where guys are stating to just use that OPSEC time to make yourself more awesome and not worry about it.

I think I understand the concept of just be wary and not be a doormat vs obsessing over what your wife is doing at all times but would like some other guys takes and maybe clarification.

Post Information
Title Trust but verify vs using time better
Author RPWolf
Upvotes 7
Comments 26
Date 07 June 2017 03:00 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206048
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/6ftymg/trust_but_verify_vs_using_time_better/
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[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy

When I got started, after reading all the horror stories, and having never checked up on my wife, I got a little freaked out and spied on her a bunch. Now, I don't even think about that shit. I think it's appropriate to check occasionally, to be sure your investment of time is not being wasted. Otherwise, I don't see a point of obsessing over it. So, maybe somewhere in the middle with a lean more towards not worrying about it?

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.0[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

This is kind of the place where I am coming from. Reading some of the stories on here and also being in a dead bedroom for almost 7 months now got my hamster to start running a little. I think some of that is just me projecting my mistrust and insecurities. I don't think she is cheating but I also know from past experience that OPSEC can get obsessive and unhealthy. Also, I know that I am my own final judge but it would seem that shitty OPSEC would lead to more damage if your goal is to try to keep your wife around because she adds value.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You have 3 kids right?

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.0[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy


[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Tough. What's your exit strategy?

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.0[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I got an attorney a couple years ago when everything went nuclear then. At that time he setup a separation agreement since I live in an at fault state. I have since updated it. My goal is to do MRP for 6 months without any major changes so that I can start to get myself in order mentally and physically. After that I will give it another year. That would be a little over 1 month for each year of marriage. By that point I want to be at a point where I have enough OI and IDGAF to be able to walk away. Obviously, if she cheats in the meantime its a done deal immediately. During this time I will be saving up a bug out fund to financially deal with that.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I wish you the best. From what I have read I am positive you will be better off for it.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm in a similar phase atm. Projecting a lot of mistrust after reading so many horror stories here even though she's a high quality woman. I've done some opsec after seeing a few things that struck me as odd, but nothing is going on.

I'm still in an anger phase and working on processing it out of my system as it's the biggest impediment to moving quality of sex forward since she needs more intimacy to get there but I've got so much rage that it's blocking my ability to give genuine intimacy so I'm my own worst enemy right now.

I don't spend a lot of time with opsec stuff though. If your eyes are open and her behavior is getting easier to read/interpret you'll likely know in your gut when it's real as opposed to manufactured in your head.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

From what I've read on here, and done myself:

The harder it is for you to replace her on a dime, the more OPSEC you need to feel good about things.

Do, or don't, just have a plan for why you're doing it (other than feelings). And get to a point where you don't care if she did, because you can kick her to the curb when she does

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not constant checks, it's just spot checks here and there. Like random drug tests at work. How hard is it to log into your phone account every few months and see if there's any odd repetitive calls/texts at odd hours. 10 min max? Or she's showering and her phone is out...any texts or emails going to people I don't know? Any nudes in them? No? OK good for another few months.

[–]Garblix3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

When I was going through hard times with my wife - no sex, feeling the ramp up to divorce, etc - I hacked my wife's phone. Found an orbiter that was an old friend. Hacked her work email. Found another orbiter at work. I logged all of that stuff, all that was said, and still have it saved and stored away in case it's ever needed.

For me, it gave me one of many kicks in the ass I needed to work on myself and drop any remaining illusions that she would never think to cheat on me. She used them for attention and validation while our relationship was on the rocks.

Improved myself in all areas and over time we repaired our relationship. I kept check on her phone and email daily at first, then dropped back more and more as our relationship got better and saw her drop communication with the orbiters. These days I just do a periodic, sporadic check in to make sure all is as it should be, and I am satisfied when I look and see that it is.

So, I trust her now but, I also occasionally look to verify that my trust is warranted. Also, if you have some serious oneitis going on, it does a man a world of good to see the shit your wife says to her friends, or orbiters, about you. When people think the other person can't hear them, you might be surprised at the shit they will sling about you. It hurts like crazy at first, to read all this hateful stuff and talking about you in hateful ways, but it propelled me to do even better and to not worry about her.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

if you have some serious oneitis going on, it does a man a world of good to see the shit your wife says to her friends, or orbiters, about you. When people think the other person can't hear them, you might be surprised at the shit they will sling about you. It hurts like crazy at first, to read all this hateful stuff and talking about you in hateful ways, but it propelled me to do even better and to not worry about her.

Truth. I overheard my wife spewing vitriol about me to my own mother on our baby monitor. Wake up call.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Wife shittalking you to your own mom? I'd shut that down real quick. That kind of disrespect bullshit should stop NOW.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah man, it was my first post here on MRP. It's been handled, rest assured.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm sure you did. That was more for any newbies reading that.

You and I both know - wife does not get to run you down in front of anyone outside the marriage.

[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When you accept that you're the one creating the conditions that make it acceptable, it becomes easy to resolve.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

take it this way:

you think she is cheating. If you go track it and do not find it, do you still think she is cheating, or do you think you were wrong the first time, maybe you just didnt look in the right place.

What are you going to do differently ? thats the question.

[–]thunderbeyond0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. It seems like one of those "I know she did it, I couldn't find evidence of it, so obviously I wasn't looking hard enough/in the right place."

If your mind is set on something, you can never satisfy yourself.

Quick check and nothing? Move on.

Now concentrate on making yourself the prize. Spend your energy on you.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Argh. I hate the word trust. I really do. I'd rather have loyalty over trust. And yeah I know what MRP says about women being loyal. So hold on.

The first is that trust is used as a weapon. Often used as I don't trust you. or I don't trust her. This is usually communicated overtly or covertly. What is NEVER communicated is what's needed to rebuild that trust. It's often a secret checklist that the violated party lords over the other. And some day you/they will hit the magic jack pot and the checklist will be fulfilled....or will it? The key to it all is still that the other party has to forget that it ever happened.

It's like a self licking ice cream cone, a self fulfilling prophecy. I don't trust you therefore nothing you can do is trustworthy. Then how does one earn trust under those circumstances.

This is why I believe trust is given not earned. You give and give and give until one day you are done giving. That is when it ends. Nothing the other party can do.

Furthermore there are many people we trust every day and we don't know them. Fellow commuters, police, medics, firefighters...we trust hundreds of people to do their job and to just not be assholes in order for us to get through our day. They've done nothing to earn it. Yet we give it freely. And yet those we love get the most stringent of rules and policies in order to gain trust.

Does that seem right?

Consider the fear here that OP is displaying. The mortal terror that most BP and budding alphas have. Are they being cucked? Ha. I answer...so what?

If there is an alpha strong enough to take my girl from me....then I want to meet hime. He has something to teach me. Not only that but he has to be a beast of a man. So it should follow that if I ever find out that I am being cucked....out. I don't need to collect data. Track. Waste my time trying to find out. I live in her frame if I do that.

I don't verify trust in my relationships. I do that for business. A contractor that makes a delivery has to submit an invoice. It closes the loops. Training occurs all my guys get certificate to verify training occurred. I don't do that for relationships. I have loyalty for that. It's a submission to my mission and to my frame. To my world as I see it. I have had people be utterly loyal to me but I would never trust them as a friend. Yet they are still close to me and will come when I need something. It's a delicate balance I admit.

I have time for little else. I don't wonder if I need to trust someone. Failure to be loyal in my frame is instant removal and yes I am in that process now. People I have known for years are getting kicked off the island.

I have a distance and direction. So ruck up. It's going to be a long hump.

[–]LawBot20160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The parent mentioned Self Licking Ice Cream Cone. Many people, including non-native speakers, may be unfamiliar with this word. Here is the definition:(In beta, be kind)

In political jargon, a self-licking ice cream cone is a self-perpetuating system that has no purpose other than to sustain itself. The phrase appeared to have been first used in 1992, in On Self-Licking Ice Cream Cones, a paper by Pete Worden about NASA's bureaucracy. Recently, it has been used to describe the support from internal IT organizations. [View More]

See also: Loyal | Frame | Loyalty | Verify | Self-fulfilling Prophecy | Pot | Invoice | Certificate | Beast

Note: The parent poster (ReddJive or RPWolf) can delete this post | FAQ

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

The goal is to get to a place where you KNOW your wife isn't cheating on you because you're an awesome guy who fucks her so well that she has NO reason to look outside the relationship. You're the little angel on top of her SMV tree. Can't swing to a higher branch.

If she did, she'd be an idiot. Losing my awesomeness forever for a subpar fuck at some losers' place. She doesn't have male friends, doesn't text guys, is completely open and transparent. I don't CARE if she fucks someone else, because I'm secure in myself.

The "trust but verify" comes from those still making the journey and feel like they have something to lose.

[–]thunderbeyond0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]bala-key0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The goal is to get to a place where you KNOW your wife isn't cheating on you because you're an awesome guy who fucks her so well that she has NO reason to look outside the relationship.

This is the MRP dream.

It's a good goal but even the Chaddest of Chads get cheated on sometimes.

Aim to be the guy that is high enough value that it makes no sense for her to cheat.

But be prepared for the situation where she does anyway.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Here's another way to think about it. There's the baseline, and there are red flags. In order to separate one from the other you need to be an integrated man, so you can objectively discern between the two.

Too many men are so heavily invested in their wives that when the subtle red flags appear they let their hamster fuel the excuse machine, mistaking one for the other. Some red flags are boundary issues, some are relationship ending. If you have options you won't be afraid to make the right choice when you need too.

If a red flag appeared in my wife that suggested infidelity she'd be gone. I don't have time for that shit. Why would any high value man put up with the drama?

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think it is important to do a "check up" occasionally, much like going to the doctor. Pick some appropriate time interval, say 6 months, and give yourself a fixed amount of time to keep a closer eye on things, then after that assume things are all good and move on. It is true that your mindset should be that you don't need her and don't need to mate guard, but also, you don't need to be cheated on and you want to know about it.

Also, if you are prone to insecurity this scheduled approach will help you manage that. I've got a number of quick things I do to do this "check up" that take little time and are pretty effective. Also, choose your spots. If she is doing something where there is more opportunity to cheat than usual then that would be a good time to check into things.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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