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What's the difference between covert contracts and leading (acta non verba)?

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November 29, 2016
8 upvotes

I posted this question recently but deleted it as I saw something posted along the same lines, but it didn't really give me the answers I wanted.

My understanding is:

A covert contract is doing something and expecting the other party to follow suit or start behaving in a similar way, or maybe start doing something as a reaction to it. Even expecting something because of it.

Example: Working out and expecting your SO to start doing it too.

Leading is setting everything up, getting her a gym membership, taking that workload and asking your SO to be there, go with her etc.

Example: This is the gym, this is the time, were signed up for a class, let's go/see you there.

My question is what's the line between the two? Acta non verba leads by actions not by words.

So if the difference isn't talking about it with her, what's the deal here?

Example: If I start dressing better, acta non verba, if I expect her to follow suit it's a covert contract. If I talk to her about it and explain it I'm DEERing.

Thoughts?


Post Information
Title What's the difference between covert contracts and leading (acta non verba)?
Author rayboomboom
Upvotes 8
Comments 20
Date 29 November 2016 01:25 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206834
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/5ffqe9/whats_the_difference_between_covert_contracts_and/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
covert contract
Comments

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy

"I'll do the dishes so that she'll do me"

Vs

"I'll do the dishes because I want a clean fucking house."

You tell me the difference.

[–]Coniferous_883 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This right here OP. Understand the difference.

[–]creating_my_life7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

I view "leading" differently than you do.

Leading to me is leading by example. "I go to the gym 3x per week. I have a gym membership. You're welcome to join me." Or, for nutrition: "I eat healthy meats and veggies, and cook chicken and broccoli." Her "Would you like pizza tonight?" You: "No thank you." There's nothing covert about it. You're simply in control of yourself, and LEADING YOURSELF. If she chooses to follow that is her decision. If you choose to stay with her if she doesn't follow is YOUR decision.

When you don't care if she joins you or not, there's no covert contract. Covert contracts are "if I do X, I expect you to do Y", such as, "If I am fit, I expect blowjobs".

[–]rayboomboom1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Leading yourself. Great perspective! Thanks.

[–]ReddJiveRed Beret5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

A covert contract is you doing something with the expectation of her (or someone else) doing something for you.

Instead of using the overly generalized term leadership personally believe it would be more accurate to say a Red Pill man must set the example (or standard) he expects to see in his environment. Then if someone or something doesn't meet that standard it's his decision to keep it there unchanged, change it to meet the example, or remove it.

By keeping things that meet the standard the Red Pill man shows what is of value to him. How he deals with this obstacle will also set the tone of his leadership style.

Using the just the idea of "leadership" invokes this idea of being a drill sergeant and demanding the family follow you into battle. Leadership takes many forms and regardless of the style or anything else, a good leader will set the example he expects then through guidance and action form the environment he wants to see.

There will be those that fail to thrive. They will fail to adapt. A leader must see that and act on it.

[–]rayboomboom0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This. Amazing comment.

[–]bangorlol3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Leading is teaching and providing the means to accomplish something while not silently expecting people to act on your gestures. Making your expectations known is critical to any relationship and should've been discussed prior to the exclusive phase of dating.

Silent expectations = bad. Vocal expectations = good. Set the standard and make it known.

[–]rayboomboom2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

So it's okay to voice my expectations from time to time, to set the standard.

[–]TheSigmaMonster2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not just okay, it's a key part of leadership.

Imagine playing a game or taking a test and not knowing what the objective was. That's what it's like to be without clear expectations.

[–]redearththeory2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lead by doing what you do (lifting, improving, preparing) because its the right thing for you as a man and for your family, and let those be the only reasons. Other people's actions should not be material. The difference between leading and covert contracts is in your beta dependence on their actions.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Imagine your wife didn't exist and you wanted to get laid by the "best" or hottest girls. Imagine you didn't give a fuck what your boss (your wife) thinks, says, or does. Imagine a world where you only care about your own happiness.

Do those things. For the rest of your life.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you start working out with the hopes your wife fucks you more, you're wrong. That is a covert contract and it defeats the whole purpose of training your body. You must train your body because you want to improve your life, the increased sex is a byproduct.

If you just go to the gym & don't explain shit to your wife, you're also wrong.

If you want your wife to get in better shape, when she asks why you're going to the gym so much, tell her. Use your words and explain how strength training and a proper diet lead to a healthier and happier life.

Again, don't tell her this and expect her to start eating right and lifting, just plant the seed.

My wife thought lifting weights would make her a man. I lead her and explained how it wouldn't, etc.

Now she squats, deads, and benches more than a few guys on here.

[–]rayboomboom0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is starting to clarify the issue. So neither do you be completely vocal, neither do you be completely silent.

Just be cool and build yourself, and if she is interested you can lead her. If she isn't, too bad. This is about me.

I do lift, take care of my food, and she knows that. Lately she hasn't been eating healthy or going gym, but we're a distance apart temporarily.

When I am there she's on point.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You've described dictating, not leading. Leading is finding creative and motivational ways (by example) that your wife wants to follow

[–]rayboomboom0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, the example I've taken that you suggested I'm dictating with, has been taken from here in MRP. I was clarifying it for myself. But your point about being creative and making your wife want to follow is great. Thanks.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If I start dressing better, acta non verba, if I expect her to follow suit it's a covert contract. If I talk to her about it and explain it I'm DEERing.

u/hambley hit the nail on the head, so I'll leave the covert contract alone.

Let's address your example I quoted. If you ask your wife to dress better, and then start telling her all the reasons she should, it's manipulative. Remember, her feelings are hers to deal with not yours. Let her come up with reasons not to.

On the other hand, you can ask her "Hey remember those cute dresses you used to wear? I'd like to see those again." Now it's her choice, and she can chose to meet that need or not. Full stop, no need to go further. You were clear upfront about your intentions, and you lead with them.

So as a leader if you talk to her about your needs and give her a chance to vocalize what she needs as crew and support her if she asks for it. Now as a woman, she may start to hamster about why she can't, she's older, they don't fit, she needs new ones, etc. If it's a logistics thing, address it. If it's a mental thing, double down and go BROKEN RECORD. "Yeah, I know you're older, but I still find you very attractive in those dresses."

A woman who is attracted to you will make an effort to reinforce her attractiveness in your eyes; be attractive, don't be unattractive.

[–]rayboomboom0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Right. So if I'm telling her all the reasons and explaining everything, that's the deering I'm trying to avoid.

On the other hand, speaking my expectations is OK (taken from another comment). It's better to state my request/need/expectation and leave her to make the choice.

Also, if there is something I want or need, I can ask her if there's anything she needs to give me what I need (logistics, support, etc)

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I don't really see the relation. Leading is about you moving yourself and your family in the proper directions. Covert contracts is about you trying to get some sexual (usually) favor by doing somebody else's (your LTR) bidding.

[–]rayboomboom0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well the point of the post was simple. I was wondering because in some posts and some books I've read to act and not talk. Do it and lead by example.

Some places I read that if you just act and not talk it could be seen as a covert contract. So I was just trying to find the line in between.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So, do you get it now?



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